Player Performance after Free Agency/Trade Problem

daddydon5 · 03-27-2004, 09:16 PM

I am consistently finding a problem in OOTP5, version 5.12.
When I acquire a good player via free agency or trade,
his performance goes dramatically down. Then, if I trade him
away or let him go back into free agency, the performance goes back up for the new team! This occurs also every time, so it's not
very realistic. I invest a lot of money in great scouts and coaches,
so I doubt this is the reason for the different performance levels.

This problem is so annoying that I am simply thinking of reactivating OOTP4 -- I don't recall anything like this problem with that version of the game.

Anybody else see this problem? Is there a fix? I have tried everything -- including a couple of reinstalls.

Any help would be great.

Steve Kuffrey · 03-27-2004, 09:22 PM

There is NO code that would make this "happen" or widespread issue of this nature. I'd say bad luck on your part as I've had a number of players go in both directions, some I acquire and they bloom and others don't do so well. Also had the same when I've gotten rid of players.

Every now and then someone will post of this happening but it is quite rare and not an across the board issue.

daddydon5 · 03-27-2004, 09:32 PM

I can't believe it's just "bad luck".
If it was every now and then that would be a possibly
acceptable rationale. But, as I said, it happens nearly every
time.

Steve Kuffrey · 03-27-2004, 09:39 PM

Maybe you should try updating to 5.14.

chrisj · 03-27-2004, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by daddydon5
I am consistently finding a problem in OOTP5, version 5.12.
When I acquire a good player via free agency or trade,
his performance goes dramatically down. Then, if I trade him
away or let him go back into free agency, the performance goes back up for the new team! This occurs also every time, so it's not
very realistic. I invest a lot of money in great scouts and coaches,
so I doubt this is the reason for the different performance levels.

This problem is so annoying that I am simply thinking of reactivating OOTP4 -- I don't recall anything like this problem with that version of the game.

Anybody else see this problem? Is there a fix? I have tried everything -- including a couple of reinstalls.

Any help would be great.

Hmm

And what are your park factors versus those of the teams they played for before and after? And what kind of decline are we talking about here? And how long do you give them? (I mean, if you play them two weeks, say they're not playing well, and trading them... )

daddydon5 · 03-27-2004, 10:36 PM

I was getting crashes on 5.14/5.13.
I don't recall when I started noticing this problem, but it did not seem to exist for me until the later patches. It certainly was not a problem when the game first came out last year.

Park Factors are not the reason -- I play in Camden Yards
and have adjusted the park factors accordingly.
After I acquire the player, the decline is dramatic and lasts several years -- then when the player goes to another team he picks up the performance again. This is a major problem that interferes with the enjoyment of the game. I've been playing this game since OOTP2 -- I've tried all of the obvious things.

Just for the heck of it, I have also previously tried using players like Ty Cobb and other HOF'ers --- same problem.

OOTP4 was a perfectly good game -- if there is no answer I'll just go back to it.

Steve Kuffrey · 03-27-2004, 10:41 PM

How many players are you talking about here? I mean I think that all of us have seen this in our experience to a small degree and in isolated cases but I've not seen or heard of this to any great degree. I've tried observing this in online and solo leagues and not seen any extreme cases. Is this happening with one particular league, all leagues or a certain type of league?

daddydon5 · 03-27-2004, 11:24 PM

I've seen it now in a fictional league and using "real rosters".
I realize players are going to fluctuate in their production.

Here's just two examples of what I mean:

Matthew Taylor:

My team (2004): with 633 AB: HR 13, 61 RBI, .212 BA, .277 OBP, .366 SLG

Then traded (with no appreciable difference in talent levels):

Next team (2005): with 499 AB (he got hurt): HR 16, 77 RBI,
.332 BA, .387 OBP, .488 SLG

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Alan Fields:

Old team (2004): with 596 AB: HR 27, 108 RBI, .289 BA, .342 OBP,
.498 SLG

Then, I traded for him in the off season, and ...

My team (2005): with 621 AB: HR 23, 67 RBI, .214 BA, .271 OBP,
.377 SLG

Based upon my past experience, these trends would continue.
I will now trade Fields and report back with the results.

daddydon5 · 03-28-2004, 12:46 AM

OK, I traded Alan Fields to the LA Dodgers (playing at Dodger
Stadium) and here are his 2006 numbers:

AB 580, HR 29, RBI 106, AVG .279, OBP .339, SLG .490

All categories are significantly higher than when he was with my human controlled team, but very consistent with his numbers
before I traded for him.

This is typical of what I am seeing.

Hammer755 · 03-30-2004, 05:18 PM

There are so many variables involved in determining a player's performance when he is traded from one team to another.

I assure you that I have seen no evidence of any sort of trade code, and can pretty much guarantee that it's not there.

dougaiton · 03-30-2004, 05:37 PM

Are you playing MM on an extremely hard setting? Even then, the difference would be minimal. In countless seasons I have never seen anything more than random fluctuations.

Check your ballpark factors. It could be that the stadium you play in has been screwed up slightly.

Crapshoot · 03-30-2004, 05:58 PM

Look- there is no such thing- the game isnt out to screw you. You've been extremely unlucky in what you have acquired...

LivnLegend · 03-30-2004, 06:31 PM

I know exactly what this guy is talking about!

Signed,

Dan Evans

Modern Relic · 03-30-2004, 09:33 PM

I have never seen anything like this myself.

daddydon5 · 03-30-2004, 11:34 PM

I don't play manager mode style and I can't believe it's the park factors I'm using. In my experiment, I traded Alan Fields to the Dodgers on purpose to see how he would do in an extreme pitcher's park like Dodger Stadium. But, just for the heck of it, I'll trade this player back to the Orioles and adjust the park factors.

Currently, the park factors I use in Camden Yards are as follows:

Avg 97
Doubles 82
Triples 68

HR 104

Avg RH 98
HR RH 107
Avg LH 95
HR LH 99

Perhaps these are a little low, so I'll raise them to match Coors Field and see what I come up with.

I'll report back when I'm done. As I have indicated, OOTP5 did not play like this for me until sometime relatively late in the patch process. Up until then, I think it played very realistically.

Steve Kuffrey · 03-30-2004, 11:40 PM

As others have stated this type thing just in not part of OOTP, I'd say if it were that you'd see a number of threads on this topic fairly regularly. I believe that in the past year a couple of folks(tops) have made illusion to this type of results being seen and IMO something showing up that infrequently tells me it is just a bad luck thing......I'm curious to see what transpires.

daddydon5 · 03-31-2004, 01:05 AM

OK, same player (Alan Fields) now required by the Orioles,
but with Camden Yards converted to Coors Field type park factors:

AB: 563
HR: 40
RBI: 107
AVG: .318
OBP: .355
SLG: .613

Here are the park factors I was using to make Camden Yards like Coors Field:

Avg: 117
Doubles: 110
Triples: 140

HR: 137

Avg RH: 118
HR RH: 140
Avg LH: 115
HR LH: 130

By the way Alan Fields is a right handed hitter.

In reality, Camden Yards' park factors are as follows (as of the 2001 baseball season per Scouting Notebook):

AVG: 95
Doubles: 83
Triples: 81
HR: 98

RH Avg: 100
RH HR: 100
LH Avg: 88
LH HR: 96

So, the park factors I was using previously were not too far off.

I don't know what to make of all of this info, but I'll probably restart another career and test the "park factor theory" several of you have cited. Perhaps that is the root of it. I'll report back what happens. Then again, maybe I'll just buy OOTP6 when it comes out .... by the way, what's the release date?

03-27-2004, 09:16 PM	#1
daddydon5 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 40	Player Performance after Free Agency/Trade Problem I am consistently finding a problem in OOTP5, version 5.12. When I acquire a good player via free agency or trade, his performance goes dramatically down. Then, if I trade him away or let him go back into free agency, the performance goes back up for the new team! This occurs also every time, so it's not very realistic. I invest a lot of money in great scouts and coaches, so I doubt this is the reason for the different performance levels. This problem is so annoying that I am simply thinking of reactivating OOTP4 -- I don't recall anything like this problem with that version of the game. Anybody else see this problem? Is there a fix? I have tried everything -- including a couple of reinstalls. Any help would be great.

03-27-2004, 09:22 PM	#2
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,036	There is NO code that would make this "happen" or widespread issue of this nature. I'd say bad luck on your part as I've had a number of players go in both directions, some I acquire and they bloom and others don't do so well. Also had the same when I've gotten rid of players. Every now and then someone will post of this happening but it is quite rare and not an across the board issue. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-27-2004, 09:32 PM	#3
daddydon5 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 40	Bad luck? I can't believe it's just "bad luck". If it was every now and then that would be a possibly acceptable rationale. But, as I said, it happens nearly every time.

03-27-2004, 09:39 PM	#4
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,036	Maybe you should try updating to 5.14. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-27-2004, 10:36 PM	#6
daddydon5 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 40	Bad Luck I was getting crashes on 5.14/5.13. I don't recall when I started noticing this problem, but it did not seem to exist for me until the later patches. It certainly was not a problem when the game first came out last year. Park Factors are not the reason -- I play in Camden Yards and have adjusted the park factors accordingly. After I acquire the player, the decline is dramatic and lasts several years -- then when the player goes to another team he picks up the performance again. This is a major problem that interferes with the enjoyment of the game. I've been playing this game since OOTP2 -- I've tried all of the obvious things. Just for the heck of it, I have also previously tried using players like Ty Cobb and other HOF'ers --- same problem. OOTP4 was a perfectly good game -- if there is no answer I'll just go back to it.

03-27-2004, 10:41 PM	#7
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,036	How many players are you talking about here? I mean I think that all of us have seen this in our experience to a small degree and in isolated cases but I've not seen or heard of this to any great degree. I've tried observing this in online and solo leagues and not seen any extreme cases. Is this happening with one particular league, all leagues or a certain type of league? __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-27-2004, 11:24 PM	#8
daddydon5 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 40	Rosters I've seen it now in a fictional league and using "real rosters". I realize players are going to fluctuate in their production. Here's just two examples of what I mean: Matthew Taylor: My team (2004): with 633 AB: HR 13, 61 RBI, .212 BA, .277 OBP, .366 SLG Then traded (with no appreciable difference in talent levels): Next team (2005): with 499 AB (he got hurt): HR 16, 77 RBI, .332 BA, .387 OBP, .488 SLG XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Alan Fields: Old team (2004): with 596 AB: HR 27, 108 RBI, .289 BA, .342 OBP, .498 SLG Then, I traded for him in the off season, and ... My team (2005): with 621 AB: HR 23, 67 RBI, .214 BA, .271 OBP, .377 SLG Based upon my past experience, these trends would continue. I will now trade Fields and report back with the results.

03-28-2004, 12:46 AM	#9
daddydon5 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 40	Alan Fields OK, I traded Alan Fields to the LA Dodgers (playing at Dodger Stadium) and here are his 2006 numbers: AB 580, HR 29, RBI 106, AVG .279, OBP .339, SLG .490 All categories are significantly higher than when he was with my human controlled team, but very consistent with his numbers before I traded for him. This is typical of what I am seeing.

03-30-2004, 05:18 PM	#10
Hammer755 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,348	There are so many variables involved in determining a player's performance when he is traded from one team to another. I assure you that I have seen no evidence of any sort of trade code, and can pretty much guarantee that it's not there.

03-30-2004, 05:37 PM	#11
dougaiton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Location: Posts: 3,414	Are you playing MM on an extremely hard setting? Even then, the difference would be minimal. In countless seasons I have never seen anything more than random fluctuations. Check your ballpark factors. It could be that the stadium you play in has been screwed up slightly. __________________ tThis shower of clowns My park-adjusted, historically split Born in '69 league file! (also at Joe's wonderful site +BBSC)

03-30-2004, 05:58 PM	#12
Crapshoot Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: watching: DArwin's missing link in action Posts: 3,112	Look- there is no such thing- the game isnt out to screw you. You've been extremely unlucky in what you have acquired... __________________ Senior Senor Member of the OOTP Boards Pittsburgh Playmates- OTBL

03-30-2004, 06:31 PM	#13
LivnLegend Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: 100% pure adrenaline! Posts: 5,624	I know exactly what this guy is talking about! Signed, Dan Evans __________________ Excess ain't rebellion. You're drinking what they're selling.

03-30-2004, 09:33 PM	#14
Modern Relic All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,266	I have never seen anything like this myself. __________________ American Folklore Baseball League (closed): Commissioner/GM - Mudville Nine (ruled!) Former member of Boys of Summer: GM - St. Louis Browns (doormats!) Former member of the OTBL: GM - Gashouse Gorillas (also ruled!) "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby

03-30-2004, 11:34 PM	#15
daddydon5 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 40	I don't play manager mode style and I can't believe it's the park factors I'm using. In my experiment, I traded Alan Fields to the Dodgers on purpose to see how he would do in an extreme pitcher's park like Dodger Stadium. But, just for the heck of it, I'll trade this player back to the Orioles and adjust the park factors. Currently, the park factors I use in Camden Yards are as follows: Avg 97 Doubles 82 Triples 68 HR 104 Avg RH 98 HR RH 107 Avg LH 95 HR LH 99 Perhaps these are a little low, so I'll raise them to match Coors Field and see what I come up with. I'll report back when I'm done. As I have indicated, OOTP5 did not play like this for me until sometime relatively late in the patch process. Up until then, I think it played very realistically.

03-30-2004, 11:40 PM	#16
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,036	As others have stated this type thing just in not part of OOTP, I'd say if it were that you'd see a number of threads on this topic fairly regularly. I believe that in the past year a couple of folks(tops) have made illusion to this type of results being seen and IMO something showing up that infrequently tells me it is just a bad luck thing......I'm curious to see what transpires. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-31-2004, 01:05 AM	#17
daddydon5 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 40	OK, same player (Alan Fields) now required by the Orioles, but with Camden Yards converted to Coors Field type park factors: AB: 563 HR: 40 RBI: 107 AVG: .318 OBP: .355 SLG: .613 Here are the park factors I was using to make Camden Yards like Coors Field: Avg: 117 Doubles: 110 Triples: 140 HR: 137 Avg RH: 118 HR RH: 140 Avg LH: 115 HR LH: 130 By the way Alan Fields is a right handed hitter. In reality, Camden Yards' park factors are as follows (as of the 2001 baseball season per Scouting Notebook): AVG: 95 Doubles: 83 Triples: 81 HR: 98 RH Avg: 100 RH HR: 100 LH Avg: 88 LH HR: 96 So, the park factors I was using previously were not too far off. I don't know what to make of all of this info, but I'll probably restart another career and test the "park factor theory" several of you have cited. Perhaps that is the root of it. I'll report back what happens. Then again, maybe I'll just buy OOTP6 when it comes out .... by the way, what's the release date?