4.0c: Improperly scored save:

MTXperience · 04-05-2002, 12:59 PM

Playing a solo historic league (1983), playing about 1/4 of the games in PbP mode. Had an interesting boxscore result after dominating the Dodgers:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 R H E
St. Louis 4 0 0 4 1 1 0 1 0 11 14 1
Los Angeles 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 1

As you can see, no save should have been awarded in this game... but:

St. Louis IP H R ER BB K PI PS ERA RECORD
V. Blue W 5.2 5 0 0 2 5 96 58 3.50 3-2
K. Atherton S 3 1 0 0 1 1 38 23 1.16 1SV

This was my final pitching line.

MTXperience · 04-05-2002, 01:01 PM

2 things:

1) This box score was from a game in PbP mode, not simmed.

2) Yes I do suck at formating posts.

hellfrozeover · 04-05-2002, 03:53 PM

These are the official MLB rules on saves, so it is possible that this was scored correctly.

Relief Pitcher is Credited with a save when:
(1) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his club; and
(2) He is not the winning pitcher; and
(3) He qualifies under one of the following conditions:

a) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; or
(b) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat, or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batsmen he faces); or
(c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings. No more than one save may be credited in each game.

Edit - In your case the third (c) is the correct reason why he was credited with the save.

[ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: hellfrozeover ]

MTXperience · 04-05-2002, 05:30 PM

[quote]Originally posted by hellfrozeover:

(c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings. No more than one save may be credited in each game.

Edit - In your case the third (c) is the correct reason why he was credited with the save.

[ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: hellfrozeover ]<hr></blockquote>

The hell you say. Thanks for the enlightenment.

JML · 04-22-2002, 06:04 PM

I just had a pitcher get a save who went the last 2.1 innings and the score was 5-1, both when he came in and as the final. It doesn't seem this one qualifies.

Hammer755 · 04-22-2002, 08:25 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JML:
I just had a pitcher get a save who went the last 2.1 innings and the score was 5-1, both when he came in and as the final. It doesn't seem this one qualifies.<hr /></blockquote>Were there runners on base when he entered the game? If there were at least 2 runners on, then the tying run would be in the on-deck circle, which would qualify him for the save.

JML · 04-22-2002, 08:31 PM

there was only one runner on, so the tying run would have been in the hole.

dburden · 07-18-2004, 10:08 PM

In fact, I believe that's the rule. It's a save opp if the tying run is in the hole. That's essentially where the three run rule comes from; if the current batter, on-deck batter, and in-the-hole batter all scored, you'd have three runs.

04-05-2002, 12:59 PM	#1
MTXperience Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 372	4.0c: Improperly scored save: Playing a solo historic league (1983), playing about 1/4 of the games in PbP mode. Had an interesting boxscore result after dominating the Dodgers: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 R H E St. Louis 4 0 0 4 1 1 0 1 0 11 14 1 Los Angeles 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 1 As you can see, no save should have been awarded in this game... but: St. Louis IP H R ER BB K PI PS ERA RECORD V. Blue W 5.2 5 0 0 2 5 96 58 3.50 3-2 K. Atherton S 3 1 0 0 1 1 38 23 1.16 1SV This was my final pitching line.

04-05-2002, 03:53 PM	#3
hellfrozeover All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,130	These are the official MLB rules on saves, so it is possible that this was scored correctly. Relief Pitcher is Credited with a save when: (1) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his club; and (2) He is not the winning pitcher; and (3) He qualifies under one of the following conditions: a) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; or (b) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat, or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batsmen he faces); or (c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings. No more than one save may be credited in each game. Edit - In your case the third (c) is the correct reason why he was credited with the save. [ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: hellfrozeover ]</p> __________________ FBA Chicago Syndicate Former Owner: WBL Minnesota Twins 2004 - 2007 AL Central Division Champs OOL Chicago Whales 2006, 2009 UL East Champs; 2006, 2009 United League Champs IBA Lehigh Valley Diamonds 2006 Governor's Cup Champions VSLB New York Yankees 2001, 2002 AL East Division Champs ILBL Commissioner/Chicago Cubs 2002 NL Central Division Champs; 2002 National League Champs ASBL New York Yankees 2006 AL East Division Champs

04-05-2002, 05:30 PM	#4
MTXperience Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 372	[quote]Originally posted by hellfrozeover: <strong> (c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings. No more than one save may be credited in each game. Edit - In your case the third (c) is the correct reason why he was credited with the save. [ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: hellfrozeover ]</strong><hr></blockquote> The hell you say. Thanks for the enlightenment.

04-22-2002, 08:25 PM	#6
Hammer755 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,348	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by JML: <strong>I just had a pitcher get a save who went the last 2.1 innings and the score was 5-1, both when he came in and as the final. It doesn't seem this one qualifies.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Were there runners on base when he entered the game? If there were at least 2 runners on, then the tying run would be in the on-deck circle, which would qualify him for the save.

04-05-2002, 01:01 PM	#2
MTXperience Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 372	2 things: 1) This box score was from a game in PbP mode, not simmed. 2) Yes I do suck at formating posts.

04-22-2002, 06:04 PM	#5
JML Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The act or process of locating. Posts: 2,154	I just had a pitcher get a save who went the last 2.1 innings and the score was 5-1, both when he came in and as the final. It doesn't seem this one qualifies.

04-22-2002, 08:31 PM	#7
JML Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The act or process of locating. Posts: 2,154	there was only one runner on, so the tying run would have been in the hole.

07-18-2004, 10:08 PM	#8
dburden Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 21	In fact, I believe that's the rule. It's a save opp if the tying run is in the hole. That's essentially where the three run rule comes from; if the current batter, on-deck batter, and in-the-hole batter all scored, you'd have three runs.