AI not following any lineup logic?

Alan T · 08-13-2003, 08:56 AM

This one is new on me.. here is the scenerio..

A team's best hitter is listed in the lineups as follows:

vs RH: 1B (batting 3rd)
vs RH+DH: DH (batting 3rd)
vs LH: 1B (Batting 3rd)
vs LH+DH: DH (batting 3rd)

Listed in Depth charts as such:

vs RH: 1B (two others listed as backups with 0% playing time)
vs RH+DH: DH (two others listed as backups with 0% playing time)
vs LH: 1B (two others listed as backups with 0% playing time)
vs LH+DH: DH (two others listed as backups with 0% playing time.

The season just started, no one is tired. THe team is an AL team, and the DH is used the first two weeks worth of games (13 games).

The team is set to human manager, and the first 13 games are simmed out by the AI.

The result:

Games 1-3 Player plays at DH as supposed to.
Games 4-11 Player does not play at DH or 1B or anywhere else. Not a pinch hitter, not a defensive replacement. never appears in the games at all.
Games 12-12 Player plays at DH as supposed to.

I initially thought one of two things:

1) Human error. After doublechecking all the lineups and depth charts, they are as above shown.

2) Injury: Player played the entire game #3, and never showed up in games 4-11. No recorded event of injury for the player in the player notes, in the game notes, team injury report, or league injury report.

So I am stumped. Anyone have any idea what in the world the AI actually uses to figure out the lineups?

Henry · 08-13-2003, 11:39 AM

Although I haven't seen this extreme, it's a know issue that the Depth chart logic can, at times, result in odd results. Part of this is due to the fact that the game does not record who played in previous games - but tries to distribute player time based on a "snapshot" in time. I suspect this is something that will be looked at in the new game engine.

Alan T · 08-13-2003, 12:29 PM

Right, I have seen that reported before.. but since all of the depth charts were set to 0% playing time, wouldn't that mean they never play (unless the starter is tired)?

The kicker though was the people who did start were not even on the depth charts for that position. Thats why I think this is not related to that..

Would this count as a bug then? Sounds like no one else has an explanation for it either...

Henry · 08-13-2003, 12:32 PM

It does seem to be different than has been seen before - but before I called it a game bug, I would set up a second test league the same way and see if the same thing occurs. It could also be that your players.dat file is corrupted in some way.

ctorg · 08-13-2003, 12:51 PM

Sometimes there are injuries that don't show up in reports at all, usually minor things. I always thought they would at least show up in e-mails, but perhaps not.

Henry · 08-13-2003, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ctorg
Sometimes there are injuries that don't show up in reports at all, usually minor things. I always thought they would at least show up in e-mails, but perhaps not.

Good point... but this one did last 8 days......

Alan T · 08-13-2003, 01:31 PM

Yes, it lasted for that long, and the player did not leave the previous game. Sure, we have seen undocumented out of game injuries before, but even then when picking a sub player to put in the AI still did not follow the depth charts. In each case, the AI used the backup catcher and not someone even included in the depth chart for that position..

ctorg · 08-13-2003, 01:58 PM

I think the types of injuries that don't show up are ones that happen "off the field" so the guy wouldn't have been removed from the previous game.

Your depth chart issues are not ones I've experienced. I wonder what the problem is.

Shortstop#9 · 08-13-2003, 02:57 PM

maybe the AI treats the 0% in the depth charts as never plays here?

As for why the starter missed 8 days, i dont recall seeing this myself and have no idea why

08-13-2003, 08:56 AM	#1
Alan T All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mass. Posts: 1,963	AI not following any lineup logic? This one is new on me.. here is the scenerio.. A team's best hitter is listed in the lineups as follows: vs RH: 1B (batting 3rd) vs RH+DH: DH (batting 3rd) vs LH: 1B (Batting 3rd) vs LH+DH: DH (batting 3rd) Listed in Depth charts as such: vs RH: 1B (two others listed as backups with 0% playing time) vs RH+DH: DH (two others listed as backups with 0% playing time) vs LH: 1B (two others listed as backups with 0% playing time) vs LH+DH: DH (two others listed as backups with 0% playing time. The season just started, no one is tired. THe team is an AL team, and the DH is used the first two weeks worth of games (13 games). The team is set to human manager, and the first 13 games are simmed out by the AI. The result: Games 1-3 Player plays at DH as supposed to. Games 4-11 Player does not play at DH or 1B or anywhere else. Not a pinch hitter, not a defensive replacement. never appears in the games at all. Games 12-12 Player plays at DH as supposed to. I initially thought one of two things: 1) Human error. After doublechecking all the lineups and depth charts, they are as above shown. 2) Injury: Player played the entire game #3, and never showed up in games 4-11. No recorded event of injury for the player in the player notes, in the game notes, team injury report, or league injury report. So I am stumped. Anyone have any idea what in the world the AI actually uses to figure out the lineups?

08-13-2003, 12:51 PM	#5
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Sometimes there are injuries that don't show up in reports at all, usually minor things. I always thought they would at least show up in e-mails, but perhaps not. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

08-13-2003, 01:31 PM	#7
Alan T All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mass. Posts: 1,963	Yes, it lasted for that long, and the player did not leave the previous game. Sure, we have seen undocumented out of game injuries before, but even then when picking a sub player to put in the AI still did not follow the depth charts. In each case, the AI used the backup catcher and not someone even included in the depth chart for that position.. __________________ - Front Office Offseason League. (Fast Paced OOTP-X and OOTP11 leagues, sims one season every week)

08-13-2003, 01:58 PM	#8
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I think the types of injuries that don't show up are ones that happen "off the field" so the guy wouldn't have been removed from the previous game. Your depth chart issues are not ones I've experienced. I wonder what the problem is. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

08-13-2003, 11:39 AM	#2
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	Although I haven't seen this extreme, it's a know issue that the Depth chart logic can, at times, result in odd results. Part of this is due to the fact that the game does not record who played in previous games - but tries to distribute player time based on a "snapshot" in time. I suspect this is something that will be looked at in the new game engine.

08-13-2003, 12:29 PM	#3
Alan T All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mass. Posts: 1,963	Right, I have seen that reported before.. but since all of the depth charts were set to 0% playing time, wouldn't that mean they never play (unless the starter is tired)? The kicker though was the people who did start were not even on the depth charts for that position. Thats why I think this is not related to that.. Would this count as a bug then? Sounds like no one else has an explanation for it either... __________________ - Front Office Offseason League. (Fast Paced OOTP-X and OOTP11 leagues, sims one season every week)

08-13-2003, 12:32 PM	#4
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	It does seem to be different than has been seen before - but before I called it a game bug, I would set up a second test league the same way and see if the same thing occurs. It could also be that your players.dat file is corrupted in some way.

08-13-2003, 02:57 PM	#9
Shortstop#9 Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 7	hmm maybe the AI treats the 0% in the depth charts as never plays here? As for why the starter missed 8 days, i dont recall seeing this myself and have no idea why