Lineups

RubeBaker · 05-14-2023, 11:02 AM

How do you pick your starting lineups? Do you use real-life lineups? Or do you make the lineups yourselves? Also, do you utilize any websites such as Baseball Reference and/or Retrosheet to look up statistics and use stats to compose your lineups?

Pelican · 05-14-2023, 11:52 AM

I have used both Baseball Reference and Retrosheet as background; but I make my own lineups. I’m more likely to use historical lineups in older seasons, particularly in the dead ball era, when the game was played differently, with “small ball” strategy. But I’m not above employing a more modern approach, to see how that would have played, back in the day.

My own peculiar approach, which I consider sabremetric, but the AI begs to differ, is as follows. My leadoff hitter needs [a] a high OBP, and [b] speed. At #2, I want a high contact guy, no need for power, high OBP a plus, speed also a plus. Should be a good hit and run guy. I’ll follow the conventional wisdom and have my best overall hitter at #3. But in OOTP avoid the slugger with low contact numbers. Ideally you want green (or blue!) ratings across the board. At cleanup I want a slugger with good power and good contact. At #5 that guy with great power but maybe not great contact numbers. At #6 through #9 (in modern DH leagues), I’ll slot guys with decreasing Contact and Power numbers. I like a fast guy with decent OBP at #9 as a “second leadoff hitter”.

I tend to platoon a lot, to spread around playing time, and to take advantage of L/R matchups. But in doing so, I look at the BNN ratings for my hitters versus LHP and RHP. Sometimes, there is a tremendous spread. For other guys, little difference. So I have distinct lineups for facing RHP and LHP.

But then I use the lineup screen to set substitutes at each position (“if starter tired”). And, where two guys are close in overall ability, or to give a veteran rest, and/or to give a rookie gradual exposure, I’ll set the sub to play every third or fifth or seventh game - whatever. That way, if I am not managing every game, I can insure the AI is using the right lineups.

Also remember that catchers get banged up, and need rest. I focus on using my #2 catcher at least for Sunday day games, so the #1 who caught Saturday night does not have to come back eighteen hours later.

Since setting weekly lineups is still a pain in OOTP, I have taken to using the strategy settings to freeze a guy at a particular lineup position. That overrides bad choices the AI is prone to making. I sometimes also freeze a guy to a position.

I have the AI set to sabremetric lineup choices, which still yields some odd lineups. Too many sluggers leading off and singles hitters batting cleanup. No regard for speed. [As a Phillies fan, I have had to endure the idiocy of NL HR Champ Kyle Schwarber leading off, until recently. You learn first hand that a slow guy with low contact is not optimal, despite a relatively high OBP. And you lose dozens of RBI’s that he would have lower in the order.] I frequently go in and “correct” lineups for teams I don’t manage, just to be fair.

Some users like to recreate historical seasons with actual transactions and injuries and, or course, lineups. I respect that, but I play with player development on, no historical transactions or injuries, and high talent change randomness. In other words, I am always playing “what if” things were different. To me, more of a challenge. To each his own. Play your way.

Brad K · 05-14-2023, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubeBaker

Also, do you utilize any websites such as Baseball Reference and/or Retrosheet to look up statistics and use stats to compose your lineups?

With 3 year or 5 year recalc the ratings and thus expected performance won't match real life stats for the season. If you're looking for total accuracy set scouting to 100% accurate. No need to go elsewhere to second guess the scouting report.

bigd51 · 05-14-2023, 09:47 PM

I let the manager set lineups to start the season. Then, once I'm a few weeks into the season and each player has a decent amount of plate appearances, I start using splits to determine which spots to place each batter.

If you go to a player's profile, click Batting Stats, then [current year] Batting Splits, and at the very bottom, you'll see how each batter is hitting in each spot in the lineup they've logged PA's at.

For example, Ronald Acuna is a permanent fixture as the leadoff hitter for Atlanta IRL but his production as the leadoff hitter in OOTP doesn't always translate as it does IRL. So if he's struggling at leadoff w/ a wRC+ well below 100, I'll move him to a different spot for another few weeks. I'll keep doing this until I find a spot in the lineup where he starts mashing and keep him there until his wRC+ starts to dip (if it ever does).

You can also use the double splits drop-down in the same screen to view how each batter is producing in each lineup spot vs left and right-handed pitching.

My only rule of thumb is I won't put my best players too low in the lineup. I'll never drop a player like Acuna to 7-8-9... but if he's logged PAs at 1-2-3-4-5-6 and he's destroying baseball in the 6th spot compared to the other spots, I won't hesitate to keep him at 6 until his production proves otherwise.

Another method you can use is this Lineup Analysis tool. I used this for a while and found it translates surprisingly well to OOTP. Just insert names and plug in each player's in-game OBP and Slugging stats, then click submit. The tool will generate optimum lineups based on those stats.

Of course, it's not at all perfect b/c it isn't a tool that is built for OOTP's sim engine. It's also very time-consuming plugging in OBP and SLG for each player multiple times throughout the season which is why I stopped using it. But it's a good starting point.

Here's another link to a good description of using sabermetric lineups:

Batting Order Sabermetrics

Overall, though, the best way to optimize each player's production -- batters and pitchers -- is to learn how to effectively use in-game splits above all else.

05-14-2023, 11:02 AM	#1
RubeBaker All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: USA Posts: 642	Lineups How do you pick your starting lineups? Do you use real-life lineups? Or do you make the lineups yourselves? Also, do you utilize any websites such as Baseball Reference and/or Retrosheet to look up statistics and use stats to compose your lineups?

05-14-2023, 11:52 AM	#2
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 2,992	I have used both Baseball Reference and Retrosheet as background; but I make my own lineups. I’m more likely to use historical lineups in older seasons, particularly in the dead ball era, when the game was played differently, with “small ball” strategy. But I’m not above employing a more modern approach, to see how that would have played, back in the day. My own peculiar approach, which I consider sabremetric, but the AI begs to differ, is as follows. My leadoff hitter needs [a] a high OBP, and [b] speed. At #2, I want a high contact guy, no need for power, high OBP a plus, speed also a plus. Should be a good hit and run guy. I’ll follow the conventional wisdom and have my best overall hitter at #3. But in OOTP avoid the slugger with low contact numbers. Ideally you want green (or blue!) ratings across the board. At cleanup I want a slugger with good power and good contact. At #5 that guy with great power but maybe not great contact numbers. At #6 through #9 (in modern DH leagues), I’ll slot guys with decreasing Contact and Power numbers. I like a fast guy with decent OBP at #9 as a “second leadoff hitter”. I tend to platoon a lot, to spread around playing time, and to take advantage of L/R matchups. But in doing so, I look at the BNN ratings for my hitters versus LHP and RHP. Sometimes, there is a tremendous spread. For other guys, little difference. So I have distinct lineups for facing RHP and LHP. But then I use the lineup screen to set substitutes at each position (“if starter tired”). And, where two guys are close in overall ability, or to give a veteran rest, and/or to give a rookie gradual exposure, I’ll set the sub to play every third or fifth or seventh game - whatever. That way, if I am not managing every game, I can insure the AI is using the right lineups. Also remember that catchers get banged up, and need rest. I focus on using my #2 catcher at least for Sunday day games, so the #1 who caught Saturday night does not have to come back eighteen hours later. Since setting weekly lineups is still a pain in OOTP, I have taken to using the strategy settings to freeze a guy at a particular lineup position. That overrides bad choices the AI is prone to making. I sometimes also freeze a guy to a position. I have the AI set to sabremetric lineup choices, which still yields some odd lineups. Too many sluggers leading off and singles hitters batting cleanup. No regard for speed. [As a Phillies fan, I have had to endure the idiocy of NL HR Champ Kyle Schwarber leading off, until recently. You learn first hand that a slow guy with low contact is not optimal, despite a relatively high OBP. And you lose dozens of RBI’s that he would have lower in the order.] I frequently go in and “correct” lineups for teams I don’t manage, just to be fair. Some users like to recreate historical seasons with actual transactions and injuries and, or course, lineups. I respect that, but I play with player development on, no historical transactions or injuries, and high talent change randomness. In other words, I am always playing “what if” things were different. To me, more of a challenge. To each his own. Play your way. __________________ Pelican OOTP 2020-? ”Hard to believe, Harry.”

05-14-2023, 09:47 PM	#4
bigd51 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 277	I let the manager set lineups to start the season. Then, once I'm a few weeks into the season and each player has a decent amount of plate appearances, I start using splits to determine which spots to place each batter. If you go to a player's profile, click Batting Stats, then [current year] Batting Splits, and at the very bottom, you'll see how each batter is hitting in each spot in the lineup they've logged PA's at. For example, Ronald Acuna is a permanent fixture as the leadoff hitter for Atlanta IRL but his production as the leadoff hitter in OOTP doesn't always translate as it does IRL. So if he's struggling at leadoff w/ a wRC+ well below 100, I'll move him to a different spot for another few weeks. I'll keep doing this until I find a spot in the lineup where he starts mashing and keep him there until his wRC+ starts to dip (if it ever does). You can also use the double splits drop-down in the same screen to view how each batter is producing in each lineup spot vs left and right-handed pitching. My only rule of thumb is I won't put my best players too low in the lineup. I'll never drop a player like Acuna to 7-8-9... but if he's logged PAs at 1-2-3-4-5-6 and he's destroying baseball in the 6th spot compared to the other spots, I won't hesitate to keep him at 6 until his production proves otherwise. Another method you can use is this Lineup Analysis tool. I used this for a while and found it translates surprisingly well to OOTP. Just insert names and plug in each player's in-game OBP and Slugging stats, then click submit. The tool will generate optimum lineups based on those stats. Of course, it's not at all perfect b/c it isn't a tool that is built for OOTP's sim engine. It's also very time-consuming plugging in OBP and SLG for each player multiple times throughout the season which is why I stopped using it. But it's a good starting point. Here's another link to a good description of using sabermetric lineups: Batting Order Sabermetrics Overall, though, the best way to optimize each player's production -- batters and pitchers -- is to learn how to effectively use in-game splits above all else.