The importance of tactics

[Slammer]

I just purchased this game and can't wait to begin. As a longtime football manager player and lifelong lover of baseball, I'm surprised it's taken me this long. I just have one question before I begin about the nature of this game. In short, how important are tactics?

To explain that question further, is it possible by using smart tactics and strategy to lead the Astros to the playoffs with their current 2013 roster (other than by sheer luck)? Or is success in this game much more tied to roster and finance management? Meaning that it's definitely possible to turn the Astros into a good team, but this will be easier achieved through good trades and signings.

In football manager, tactics are key. If you're smart with your tactical sliders, set pieces, etc. you can take a poor minnow club all the way to the top. Obviously the players are key too, but you can definitely win with inferior clubs. Is this the case in OOTP as well? If so, what tactics would you consider the most important? Is it the overall mentality settings, or the play-by-play decisions while managing in game?

Obviously this is a very big question, but I'd love to hear what experienced players have to say.

[Questdog]

Good tactics never win games in baseball, but bad tactics can lose them.....

So, no you cannot take a crap team to the top just by being a smart manager, but you can take a top notch team to the basement with your stupidity.......

[Padreman]

Originally Posted by Questdog

Good tactics never win games in baseball, but bad tactics can lose them.....

So, no you cannot take a crap team to the top just by being a smart manager, but you can take a top notch team to the basement with your stupidity.......

Actually very well said

[RchW]

I hate the use of the word tactics. It's just so.....football manager.
















Really just joking.

[themonk]

Originally Posted by RchW

I hate the use of the word tactics.

Whether it's OOTP or Football Manager, I prefer using the word strategy to tactics. Anyway, the important thing is that I agree with Questdog...

[Gil Thorp]

Originally Posted by Slammer

In football manager, tactics are key. If you're smart with your tactical sliders, set pieces, etc. you can take a poor minnow club all the way to the top. Obviously the players are key too, but you can definitely win with inferior clubs.

And I thought FM was the greatest, most realistic game ever.

[Leo_The_Lip]

Originally Posted by themonk

Whether it's OOTP or Football Manager, I prefer using the word strategy to tactics. Anyway, the important thing is that I agree with Questdog...

Actually, it is not a preference, there are distinct meanings to these two words and you are the one blurring the meanings.

Strategy is the overall plan. In military terms, it is where the army is attacking. Tactics is what small units (individual planes, tanks and men) do in their immediate battle area.

When these words are used to describe a sports team, Strategy should be used to describe the duties of the General Manager -- what type of players to sign, how much to spend on youth or veterans. Tactics is what the players do in the game--in baseball this would be batting order, hit and run, infield in and so forth.

So tactics is the proper term for this thread.

[ThatSeventiesGuy]

I prefer "stragety", as that great American, Bugs Bunny, would say.

[Slammer]

Thanks for the responses, everyone. So in other words, I should expect the role of GM to be much more important to the role of manager/coach in this game?

I guess that just makes me wonder, what can you control other than the players on your team that actually has a significant effect on the outcomes of individual games?

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by Slammer

Thanks for the responses, everyone. So in other words, I should expect the role of GM to be much more important to the role of manager/coach in this game?

I guess that just makes me wonder, what can you control other than the players on your team that actually has a significant effect on the outcomes of individual games?

?????

What else could you possibly control other than the players on your team?

[D-BacksJosh]

Originally Posted by Slammer

Thanks for the responses, everyone. So in other words, I should expect the role of GM to be much more important to the role of manager/coach in this game?

I guess that just makes me wonder, what can you control other than the players on your team that actually has a significant effect on the outcomes of individual games?

Batting order. Defensive placement. Finding the perfect fit for closer. (I've blown tons of games in the 9th because I didn't have a quality closer.)

[hopeful1212]

Well, if you're going to be managing your games, I'd say that the bullpen management is probably the most important. You'll want to get your best relievers in the most crucial spots in the game while keeping your pen fresh enough (as in not over-using your best relievers so they're always tired).

But really, you're going to just have to accept that there's a lot of variance in player performance in baseball from game to game, so there's not really anything you can do that will have a significant effect on ONE game. But, there are things you can do that will give you a little edge that can build up over the season to get you a couple extra wins or whatever. You can set your lineup, which has a small effect. You basically want people batting near the top that can get on base and people batting in the middle that can drive them in. You can alter your pitching rotation so that your lefty starter gets to face mostly teams that are weak against lefties. You can structure your bench so that you have different pinch hitters available (one that has power, but probably not enough other abilities to start for you, when you really need a homerun, one that doesn't have much power for when you really just need to get on base etc.).

So, most of that is basically stuff you can do as a GM, but implement the plan as a manager probably a little better than the AI could.

[Slammer]

Cool. So how important are the pitch-by-pitch / individual batter decisions? Things like 'take pitch' or 'swing away'? Obviously hit and runs, squeezes, etc. are important decisions, but I guess I'm wondering if it's worth it to manage the minutiae of every game like that.

[rpriske]

The importance of batting order is overrated, but you have to pick someorder, so you might as well make it as good as possible.


The problem with swing away/take pitch etc is that it is an exploit in this game. It can have a HUGE effect on how well you do, but only if you are more concerned with winnign the game than having it actually reflect reality.

No judgements. If that is what you want, go for it.

Keep pressing take pitch until the batter has two strikes against him. Then swing away. Apparently it doesn't increase strike outs in OOTP... which is crazy, but hey.

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[D-BacksJosh]

Originally Posted by rpriske

The importance of batting order is overrated, but you have to pick someorder, so you might as well make it as good as possible.

Indeed there has been some debate on the importance of the batting order. Hey you are the manager, if you want to put names in a hat and randomly draw who will bat in each spot go for it! One thing to remember in OOTP is that some players wish to be placed in a specific location in the batting order, by not doing so this can have a negative effect on that player's morale, which in turn can have some effect on that player's performance.

[wildcatrevival]

While I dont think you could lead the Astros to the playoffs, I do think you can swing a few wins per season, primarily by catering your tactics to your team and catering your team to your circumstances. For instance, you dont want to steal and bunt frequently if you have a bunch of power hitters. Also, I have had some success with catering my team to my stadium. I am playing a game where my stadium is not friendly to lefty power hitters. Therefore I have focused on strong pitching and right-handed contact hitters. I guess its hard to know how much of an impact that is having though. I have gone from historically bad to top five in the league.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by rpriske

The importance of batting order is overrated, but you have to pick someorder, so you might as well make it as good as possible.


The problem with swing away/take pitch etc is that it is an exploit in this game. It can have a HUGE effect on how well you do, but only if you are more concerned with winnign the game than having it actually reflect reality.

No judgements. If that is what you want, go for it.

Keep pressing take pitch until the batter has two strikes against him. Then swing away. Apparently it doesn't increase strike outs in OOTP... which is crazy, but hey.

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No disrespect intended but I can't help thinking that is an exploit.

[slugga27]

Originally Posted by wildcatrevival

While I dont think you could lead the Astros to the playoffs, I do think you can swing a few wins per season, primarily by catering your tactics to your team and catering your team to your circumstances. For instance, you dont want to steal and bunt frequently if you have a bunch of power hitters. Also, I have had some success with catering my team to my stadium. I am playing a game where my stadium is not friendly to lefty power hitters. Therefore I have focused on strong pitching and right-handed contact hitters. I guess its hard to know how much of an impact that is having though. I have gone from historically bad to top five in the league.

In a dynasty I had going, I led the Astros to near .500 ball by using small-ball tactics. I agree, though, that a bad team will still be a bad team regardless of strategy, but maybe not AS BAD of a team as it should be. My aggressive play resulted in north of 200 steals (no, that's not a typo...when Villar swiped over 150 and Altuve gets 40, that's going to happen) and probably netted me an extra 20 wins.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by slugga27

In a dynasty I had going, I led the Astros to near .500 ball by using small-ball tactics. I agree, though, that a bad team will still be a bad team regardless of strategy, but maybe not AS BAD of a team as it should be. My aggressive play resulted in north of 200 steals (no, that's not a typo...when Villar swiped over 150 and Altuve gets 40, that's going to happen) and probably netted me an extra 20 wins.

It would take a LOT of steals to equal 20 wins......a good rule of thumb is that 10 runs = 1 win....each steal = about 1/3 of a run and each caught stealing = (-2/3) of a run......to equal 20 wins, you'd need about 200 runs from steals......that would be about 600 steals if you were never caught......if you have a 75% success rate, you would need roughly 1800 steals.......

[slugga27]

Originally Posted by Questdog

It would take a LOT of steals to equal 20 wins......a good rule of thumb is that 10 runs = 1 win....each steal = about 1/3 of a run and each caught stealing = (-2/3) of a run......to equal 20 wins, you'd need about 200 runs from steals......that would be about 600 steals if you were never caught......if you have a 75% success rate, you would need roughly 1800 steals.......

That was just an estimation (no math involved in arriving at the 20 wins), but I'm talking more about SPECIFIC games where a steal or more led to a win. Like, two outs, bottom ninth, down by a run, Villar on first...he steals second and then is driven in. I mean, I can't be sure off the top of my head the exact number, but there's no way I even come close to .500 without steals in key spots.