Biggest Impact Position in Team Sports

[Neags23]

My buddy and I were talking about the Jay Cutler trade, and he said he's never liked Cutler, and threw out the absurd (I think) stat of Cutler being 8-8 as a starter and Orton being 9-6. I'd say a QB's won-loss record is even more worthless than a pitcher's.

But he posits that a QB is the most important position of any team sport and has more of an impact on winning or losing than any other position in any sport.

I say that's garbage. So just as an example, I picked a point guard in basketball as having more of an impact.

His argument:

• You can take away all responsibility from a bad PG, you can't do that with a bad QB.
• A PG can go a whole game without shooting, a QB touches the ball every play on offense.
• A QB is a 'leader' whom the team rallies around
• To win in football, you score points. You score points primarily on offense, and the QB touches the ball every offensive play.
• Give up all the points you want, but if you score more, you win.
• A PG doesn't average more than 40 minutes a game.

My argument

• A QB does not play defense. He does not play special teams. Therefore, he's only on the field, on average, about 45% of the game.
• A PG plays offense and defense. That's double the impact on the game's outcome.
• There are 21 other football players on a team who impact a football game besides the QB, not including special teams guys. There are only four other basketball players.
• A PG can also 'lead' players and have the team rally around him (I hate this stupid leadership argument, but I have to have a rebuttal.)
• A QB can go an entire game without throwing a ball just as much as a PG can go an entire game without shooting it.
• If both players perform brilliantly in a game offensively, the PG can still blow the game by playing bad defense.
• If both players perform badly in a game offensively, a PG can still help win the game with good defense.

So I'm not sure if I necessarily think a PG is the most important position in team sports, but I'd say a PG has a bigger impact on a game's outcome than a quarterback.

I'd like to hear other opinions, and if you think there's a different position in any sport that has more of an impact on a game's outcome, let's hear it.

[Jose Cardenal's Afro]

Look at the majority of Superbowl winners and you will see an all-pro QB at the helm. With the exceptions of Johnson and Dilfer, all the teams had really good QBs. Johnson and Dilfer had the benefit of crazy good defenses.

[Jose Cardenal's Afro]

All but 3 QBs were consistent winners



Bart Starr, Green Bay Packers - SB I
Bart Starr, Green Bay Packers - SB II
Joe Namath, New York Jets - SBIII
Len Dawson, Kansas City Chiefs - SB IV
Johnny Unitas, Baltimore Colts - SB V
Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - SB VI
Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins - SB VII
Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins - SB VIII
Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB IX
Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB X
Ken Stabler, Oakland Raiders - SB XI
Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - SB XII
Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XIII
Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XIV
Jim Plunkett, Oakland Raiders - SB XV
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XVI
Joe Theismann, Washington Redskins - SB XVII
Jim Plunkett, Los Angeles Raiders - SB XVIII
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XIX
Jim McMahon, Chicago Bears - SB XX
Phil Simms, New York Giants - SB XXI
Doug Williams, Washington Redskins - SB XXII
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIII
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIV
Jeff Hostetler, New York Giants - SB XXV
Mark Rypien, Washington Redskins - SB XXVI
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXVII
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXVIII
Steve Young, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIX
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXX
Brett Favre, Green Bay Packers - SB XXXI
John Elway, Denver Broncos - SB XXXII
John Elway, Denver Broncos - SB XXXIII
Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams - SB XXXIV
Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens - SB XXXV
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXVI
Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers - SB XXXVII
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXVIII
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXIX
Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XL
Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts - SB XLI
Eli Manning, New York Giants - SB XLII

[Neags23]

Interesting info, but I'm not sure that it's relevant.

Those super bowl teams with the All-Pro QB's didn't get there by QB alone.

If you look at NBA Champions, do they not have All-Star Point guards?

Magic Johnson won 5 titles
Isiah Thomas won 2
Bob Cousy won 6

How does this show QB's have more of an impact?

[pancakes]

Do the Lakers have a great PG? Nope.

Do the Cavs have a great PG? Nope.

The two best teams in the NBA don't have great PG's, while the majority of top NFL teams are led by QB's.

[Neags23]

Originally Posted by pancakes

Do the Lakers have a great PG? Nope.

Do the Cavs have a great PG? Nope.

The two best teams in the NBA don't have great PG's, while the majority of top NFL teams are led by QB's.

But again, this doesn't say all that much about the individual player's impact on a game's result.

You're talking about a team's impact on the game's result. The Laker's and Cavs not having great PGs just means the teams are good without them.

I'm not saying you can't have a good team without a good PG or that you can't have a good football team without a good QB.

But just because those NFL teams are good and have good QBs doesn't mean their QBs impact the game more than a PG on a basketball team does.

[jbergey22]

Id say easily the QB is most important. The only other position remotely close would be a goalie in hockey. In one particular game a pitcher would be on the list but since they only pitch once every 5 days Id keep them out of this discussion.

Too add, Any one dominant basketball player can mean more to a team that a great QB but being the question is position it has to be a QB. You cant overlook the position because at some point you will need the QB to either run or pass the ball. In basketball if you have a bad PG you can just get the ball to a guy like LeBron James or Kobe Bryant 75% of the game and let him create.

[Neags23]

But how do you reconcile this with the fact that a QB only plays offense while several other positions in other sports play offense and defense?

Doesn't that, by definition, mean the QB has less impact because he only impacts half of the outcome, rather than both halves?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Neags23

But how do you reconcile this with the fact that a QB only plays offense while several other positions in other sports play offense and defense?

Doesn't that, by definition, mean the QB has less impact because he only impacts half of the outcome, rather than both halves?

Well what other options are there?

In baseball you have 9 hitters batting and 9 players playing the field, none of which can single handedly carry a team like a pitcher. A pitcher can only pitch 1 every 5 games so Id leave him out as well. IF the same pitcher could pitch every game Id take the pitcher in this discussion.

In basketball the PG is one of 5 positions in which it really doesnt matter which one is better. You can win whether your star is a center, a small forward or a PG. As far as basketball goes Id say the Center is more important than a PG.

A hockey goalie is very important and he would be high on my list.

The quarterback does so much. He calls the plays, he manages the clock, he has to produce the points. Sure he cant play defense but he can certainly make sure the defense is well rested when they get back on the field and make sure the defense is put in optimal conditions(field position, score) when they get back on the field.

[Skipaway]

Any position on a basketball team can have more impacts than the QB on a football team.

Basketball is a game where one dominant player can turn the game around by himself, since he can hog the ball if all the other teammates are not good. It's hard, but it's possible. Put an NBA player into an highschool game and the player can single-handedly dictate the game.

In football, having one dominant QB but otherwise horrible team would not give you the same kind of impact.


It's just the nature of the sports. Football is much more of a team game than basketball.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Any position on a basketball team can have more impacts than the QB on a football team.

Basketball is a game where one dominant player can turn the game around by himself, since he can hog the ball if all the other teammates are not good. It's hard, but it's possible. Put an NBA player into an highschool game and the player can single-handedly dictate the game.

In football, having one dominant QB but otherwise horrible team would not give you the same kind of impact.


It's just the nature of the sports. Football is much more of a team game than basketball.

Very true but the question is what POSTION has the most impact. Also Id like to think poll results he is looking for are on a professional level. I am pretty sure any professional athlete could single handedly dictate a high school game.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Very true but the question is what POSTION has the most impact. Also Id like to think poll results he is looking for are on a professional level. I am pretty sure any professional athlete could single handedly dictate a high school game.

What I am trying to say is that all basketball positions are bigger impact positions than QB in football.

If you look at the salaries, you can find NBA players in all positions with very high salary that eats up a huge percentage of the payroll.

[Neags23]

In my argument, I probably shouldn't have singled out a basketball PG. I should've made it more of a QB vs. The Field poll. Basically, "Is it a QB or anyone else?" I just picked out a PG as an example, since he's often seen as the "QB of a basketball team."

Skipaway totally hits on what I'm saying, though, in that football relies on the entire team probably more so than any other sport. So much so, that the QB relies on his defense and special teams to help him win more than half the time.

[jbergey22]

Well if you put Chris Paul around 4 average NBA starters OR Peyton Manning around 21 average NFL starters you guys are right Pauls team would win a better percentage IMO. The thing is you could put Kobe around 4 average starters or Howard around 4 average starters and they would do around the same as Paul would with the 4 average starters. In the NFL if you put Manning around 21 average starters they will win many more games than a guy like Ed Reed and 21 average starters IMO.

[marioh]

Initially, I felt it was the QB.
But a QB's impact is directly related to the success his OL have in front of him. If they can't pass block, the QB will have no time to read the defense and get the ball out of his hands and will most likely spend most of his time either running for his life or on his back.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Well if you put Chris Paul around 4 average NBA starters OR Peyton Manning around 21 average NFL starters you guys are right Pauls team would win a better percentage IMO. The thing is you could put Kobe around 4 average starters or Howard around 4 average starters and they would do around the same as Paul would with the 4 average starters. In the NFL if you put Manning around 21 average starters they will win many more games than a guy like Ed Reed and 21 average starters IMO.

Well yeah, in terms of impact, all basketball positions are giants, while QB comparing to other football positions is like dwarf among midgets.

[Prodigal Son]

Originally Posted by marioh

Initially, I felt it was the QB.
But a QB's impact is directly related to the success his OL have in front of him. If they can't pass block, the QB will have no time to read the defense and get the ball out of his hands and will most likely spend most of his time either running for his life or on his back.

The Cards had a terrible O-line this season and almost won the Super Bowl because Warner can get rid of the football within two seconds.

I'm also going with QB. If you put Vince Young, who is an average at best NFL QB, on a high school football team, he will be more dominant than Kobe Bryant on a HS basketball team. After all, Young dominated the national championship in Division I football against a really good USC team defense of future NFL players.

Against equal competition, I'd say a dominant basketball player loses so much of his edge. It's easier to stop a great basketball player than a great quarterback.

How many teams have won the NBA title without at least two great players out of the starting five? That's 40% of the starting lineup. Most have three players, or 60% of the lineup, in that very good to great range. I believe a football team can be great with under 50% of the players being very good primarily because of the disproportionate influence of the QB.

[Left-handed Badger]

Well with the PG, you could always have a Scottie Pippen type small forward who leads the offense instead. You cant really have another position in football really take up the slack for a QB, though you could run more. Football is a sport though that cant really be compared in these ways with other sports. Simply because of the separation of offense and defense. (though I have used that separation in football to support my argument on why we should have the Dh instead of letting Ps bat. )

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

Against equal competition, I'd say a dominant basketball player loses so much of his edge. It's easier to stop a great basketball player than a great quarterback.

How many teams have won the NBA title without at least two great players out of the starting five? That's 40% of the starting lineup. Most have three players, or 60% of the lineup, in that very good to great range. I believe a football team can be great with under 50% of the players being very good primarily because of the disproportionate influence of the QB.

What NFL team has won games by just having a great quarterback? To say it takes more than one great player to win an NBA title so a great basketball player doesn't have that much impact, then a great quarterback would have no impact then, considering no football team can do anything by just having one great quarterback but little else.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

I'm also going with QB. If you put Vince Young, who is an average at best NFL QB, on a high school football team, he will be more dominant than Kobe Bryant on a HS basketball team. After all, Young dominated the national championship in Division I football against a really good USC team defense of future NFL players.

And he'd be dominating high schoolers as a running back not as a quarterback. He'd just run and run and run.

You find basketball players dominate much more often than the way Vince Young did in college, so I don't really see the point.