Velocity: What does it do?

sfeldkamp · 07-03-2006, 05:50 PM

This is from the Game Guide.

14.3.4. Velocity
Velocity is a measure of how fast a pitcher throws. Velocity is not measured according to the standard
rating system, but rather is measured in miles per hour.

So is this merely cosmetic? If not, how does it effect a pitchers performance? Is it correlated with the other pitching ratings in any way?

andymac · 07-03-2006, 05:58 PM

I believe velocity is a factor in strikeouts and possibly the development of a pitchers' other ratings (i.e. the higher velocity the better chance the pitcher will develop in other areas).

molarmite · 07-03-2006, 06:02 PM

I know it was cosmetic in 6.5, but I think it's not cosmetic in this version.

disposableheros · 07-03-2006, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molarmite

I know it was cosmetic in 6.5, but I think it's not cosmetic in this version.

no, it isnt/wasnt. guys with high velocity and high stuff consistently get more strikeouts than guys with high stuff and average or low stuff.

sfgiants88 · 07-03-2006, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disposableheros

no, it isnt/wasnt. guys with high velocity and high stuff consistently get more strikeouts than guys with high stuff and average or low stuff.

I don't at all mean to sound disparaging, but is there a link or study somewhere that tests this?

disposableheros · 07-03-2006, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfgiants88

I don't at all mean to sound disparaging, but is there a link or study somewhere that tests this?

search the v6 forums. it should be around still.

disposableheros · 07-03-2006, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disposableheros

search the v6 forums. it should be around still.

in a quick search, i came up with a couple that refute what i stated, but nothing that defends it. maybe it was posted at one of my league sites? i'll check them too.

here is something interesting as well http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...85&postcount=7

84CubsFan · 07-03-2006, 11:39 PM

Here's another oldy but goody: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...tching+ratings

No official word from Markus that I could see, but a lot of people who at least sound like they know what they're talking about.

sporr · 07-04-2006, 12:37 AM

In past versions, velocity had a positive (but small) effect on pitcher development. I assume this has remained the same for this version.

OakDragon · 07-04-2006, 04:21 AM

FWIW, IRL, I think this would have the opposite effect. I.e., a player would be less likely to become a more effective (smarter) pitcher, instead relying on their fastball too much.

Syd Thrift · 07-04-2006, 05:40 AM

Nah, IRL a pitcher with a low velocity can do a lot of things to get hitters out and avoid walks and so on, but the guy with the high velocity can still turn to all those things if blowing the fastball by someone doesn't work. There are lots and lots of exceptions, but generally if you have the ability to throw 95-mile per hour heat, you've got a better chance of improving enough to make and be successful in the majors, and if and when you lose 5 mph on it, you can still expect to last longer than a guy who initially throws an 89 mph four-seamer who loses 5 mph on his.

Again, there are lots and lots and lots of exceptions to this. Nobody tell Jamie Moyer about this, okay?

disposableheros · 07-05-2006, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disposableheros

in a quick search, i came up with a couple that refute what i stated, but nothing that defends it. maybe it was posted at one of my league sites? i'll check them too.

here is something interesting as well http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...85&postcount=7

i didnt find any at those sites either, but a spring training study done here got me thinking, so i did a quick and dirty test to check something out.

10 team league, five 1-yr tests, 100 point scale, take away all velocity ST points from all pitchers and allocate them to learning a new position (1B).

73% of pitchers lost stuff rating (anywhere from 6-18 in this small study). 8% of pitchers lost movement (3-9 points). < 1% of pitchers lost control (5-12 points).

sfgiants88 · 07-05-2006, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disposableheros

i didnt find any at those sites either, but a spring training study done here got me thinking, so i did a quick and dirty test to check something out.

10 team league, five 1-yr tests, 100 point scale, take away all velocity ST points from all pitchers and allocate them to learning a new position (1B).

73% of pitchers lost stuff rating (anywhere from 6-18 in this small study). 8% of pitchers lost movement (3-9 points). < 1% of pitchers lost control (5-12 points).

Hmmm, interesting. Thanks for the study.

mrbill · 07-05-2006, 04:24 PM

I've never found any evidence that velocity does anything in-game up through v6.5, but as these guys link to, Markus has said it influences development positively:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ity+strikeouts

That's the "velocity does nothing for Ks" study that is pretty solidly done.

I'd be surprised if any velocity effect was included in v2006 more than it had an effect in v6.5.

It makes sense that pitchers develop slightly better stuff (which is merely getting strikeouts) if they have higher velocity. But, stuff is the rating that matters in-game, velocity is a modifier on its development.

There's no reason to have two ratings describe strikeout rate when one rating will do the job.

sfgiants88 · 07-05-2006, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disposableheros

i didnt find any at those sites either, but a spring training study done here got me thinking, so i did a quick and dirty test to check something out.

10 team league, five 1-yr tests, 100 point scale, take away all velocity ST points from all pitchers and allocate them to learning a new position (1B).

73% of pitchers lost stuff rating (anywhere from 6-18 in this small study). 8% of pitchers lost movement (3-9 points). < 1% of pitchers lost control (5-12 points).

Did the talent rating drop or did the actual rating drop? Both?

disposableheros · 07-06-2006, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfgiants88

Did the talent rating drop or did the actual rating drop? Both?

overwhelming majority were actual ratings, but there were a few who lost talent. id guess those few were 'hitting the wall' anyway.

mrbill · 07-06-2006, 05:08 PM

Yeah, in v6.5 and before, Stuff and Velocity actually both modified the "Stuff" rating for pitchers. In most of my leagues, if I'm willing to take a small risk on the talent drop for a potential gain in actual ratings, I'll move 1-2 points from velocity to stuff.

Now, what this all means to 2006, probably just that velocity is still eye candy, and now there's no way to even mess with the value of it.

sfeldkamp · 07-07-2006, 09:28 AM

Thanks to everyone who posted! The answers were alot more in depth than I expected.
I think I will focus on the primary ratings (stuff, movement, control) a little more when drafting and use velocity as a tie-breaker of sorts. And I'll stay away from pitchers with a high stuff-low velocity combination (at least at the top of the draft).

07-03-2006, 05:50 PM	#1
sfeldkamp Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 184	Velocity: What does it do? This is from the Game Guide. 14.3.4. Velocity Velocity is a measure of how fast a pitcher throws. Velocity is not measured according to the standard rating system, but rather is measured in miles per hour. So is this merely cosmetic? If not, how does it effect a pitchers performance? Is it correlated with the other pitching ratings in any way?

07-03-2006, 05:58 PM	#2
andymac Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Effingham, IL Posts: 5,725	I believe velocity is a factor in strikeouts and possibly the development of a pitchers' other ratings (i.e. the higher velocity the better chance the pitcher will develop in other areas). __________________ June Madness: Links FTB: andymac

07-03-2006, 06:02 PM	#3
molarmite Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 4,927	I know it was cosmetic in 6.5, but I think it's not cosmetic in this version. __________________ From the wise mind of Davey Eckstein "Now all you need is a signature. A quote or initial, perhaps." [

07-05-2006, 04:24 PM	#14
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 982	I've never found any evidence that velocity does anything in-game up through v6.5, but as these guys link to, Markus has said it influences development positively: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ity+strikeouts That's the "velocity does nothing for Ks" study that is pretty solidly done. I'd be surprised if any velocity effect was included in v2006 more than it had an effect in v6.5. It makes sense that pitchers develop slightly better stuff (which is merely getting strikeouts) if they have higher velocity. But, stuff is the rating that matters in-game, velocity is a modifier on its development. There's no reason to have two ratings describe strikeout rate when one rating will do the job. __________________ UBL - Best Online League Evar! - Los Angeles Dodgers: 25 seasons, 13 NL West titles, 4 WC, 8 NL Titles, 5-time Champs LBB v5 league (retired) - Detroit Tigers/Commish: 19 seasons, 18 straight AL Central titles, 2006, 2008, 2014, 2015 Champs! NGBL v6 league (dead) - Texas Rangers: 10 seasons, 4 AL South titles, 2 Wild Cards, one WS app

07-06-2006, 05:08 PM	#17
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 982	Yeah, in v6.5 and before, Stuff and Velocity actually both modified the "Stuff" rating for pitchers. In most of my leagues, if I'm willing to take a small risk on the talent drop for a potential gain in actual ratings, I'll move 1-2 points from velocity to stuff. Now, what this all means to 2006, probably just that velocity is still eye candy, and now there's no way to even mess with the value of it. __________________ UBL - Best Online League Evar! - Los Angeles Dodgers: 25 seasons, 13 NL West titles, 4 WC, 8 NL Titles, 5-time Champs LBB v5 league (retired) - Detroit Tigers/Commish: 19 seasons, 18 straight AL Central titles, 2006, 2008, 2014, 2015 Champs! NGBL v6 league (dead) - Texas Rangers: 10 seasons, 4 AL South titles, 2 Wild Cards, one WS app

07-03-2006, 11:39 PM	#8
84CubsFan Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 376	Here's another oldy but goody: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...tching+ratings No official word from Markus that I could see, but a lot of people who at least sound like they know what they're talking about.

07-04-2006, 12:37 AM	#9
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	In past versions, velocity had a positive (but small) effect on pitcher development. I assume this has remained the same for this version.

07-04-2006, 04:21 AM	#10
OakDragon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: San Jose, CA USA Posts: 3,494	FWIW, IRL, I think this would have the opposite effect. I.e., a player would be less likely to become a more effective (smarter) pitcher, instead relying on their fastball too much.

07-04-2006, 05:40 AM	#11
Syd Thrift Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 10,667	Nah, IRL a pitcher with a low velocity can do a lot of things to get hitters out and avoid walks and so on, but the guy with the high velocity can still turn to all those things if blowing the fastball by someone doesn't work. There are lots and lots of exceptions, but generally if you have the ability to throw 95-mile per hour heat, you've got a better chance of improving enough to make and be successful in the majors, and if and when you lose 5 mph on it, you can still expect to last longer than a guy who initially throws an 89 mph four-seamer who loses 5 mph on his. Again, there are lots and lots and lots of exceptions to this. Nobody tell Jamie Moyer about this, okay?

07-07-2006, 09:28 AM	#18
sfeldkamp Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 184	Thanks to everyone who posted! The answers were alot more in depth than I expected. I think I will focus on the primary ratings (stuff, movement, control) a little more when drafting and use velocity as a tie-breaker of sorts. And I'll stay away from pitchers with a high stuff-low velocity combination (at least at the top of the draft).