bullpen warmup

dashby · 06-01-2006, 02:00 AM

As far as gameplay strategy goes the neccessity to have the forethought to warm up a pitcher when you see your starter is going bad is huge. There aren't a whole lot of actual in-game strategies when you really think about it. Batting - swing, take a pitch, bunt. Pitching - pitch, pitch around, intentional walk, couple more. A Few more variables in base-running and fielding. But the challenge of managing your pitchers and having to tend to the warm-ups really adds to the immersiveness of a baseball sim.

It's not there so, I'm not going to lose a lot of sleep over it but, I would prefer to have it.

TheDROCK · 06-01-2006, 02:02 AM

Totally agree.

Claymore · 06-01-2006, 02:04 AM

Problem was, in previous versions, only the Player had to warm up Pitchers (the AI didn't). Don't know why it wasn't built into the new engine requiring both to warm up relievers. Heck that was a feature of Earl Weaver Baseball way back when!

PSUColonel · 06-01-2006, 02:05 AM

agreed, probably not in this version though

Claymore · 06-01-2006, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

agreed, probably not in this version though

Naw, I'd imagine it would be too much coding. Hopefully the next build will have it.

MZBKA · 06-01-2006, 02:11 AM

I remember when playing OOTP 6 (or was is OOTP 5) using the warmup option, there was no way to tell WHEN your pitcher was warmed up! So I just turned it off. If the 'pen option is added, please have something that tells us when the relief is ready to go!

draven085 · 06-01-2006, 08:10 AM

I was looking for this option last night and was disappointed to see that it wasn't included. I agree that having to warm up relievers adds to the experience of in-game managing, not to mention being far more realistic than simply calling on a fireman when your current hurler runs into some trouble. Hopefully this is something that can be added in a later patch.

Scruff · 06-01-2006, 09:10 AM

I don't mind that the computer doesn't have to warm up their pitchers. In real life managers tend to do a pretty good job in that department. It's probably more realistic to have the computer not do it at all than do it poorly.

In the last version, the warmup period was too long, IIRC, something like 3 batters, and the time between innings didn't count. Does anyone know how long you have to warm pitchers up for now? It'll be awhile before I actually play a game, I'm still working on setting my league up.

andymac · 06-01-2006, 09:21 AM

I would like to see pitcher warmups brought back, but can see why it was left out of this version as it wasn't implemented particularly well in 6.5.

I think it could be done well, but it would have to go along with needed complete overhaul of the pitcher creation and usage (which has already been discussed in detail).

In the games' current form, warming up pitchers would basically just be a nuisance to me.

QuestGAV · 06-01-2006, 09:34 AM

This is a pretty important component of in-game baseball strategy. It seems like a natural place to look when you get a chance to start adding features.

andymac · 06-01-2006, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

This is a pretty important component of in-game baseball strategy. It seems like a natural place to look when you get a chance to start adding features.

I would guess that he didn't like its' implementation into 6.5 & so decided to wait on it in this version until he had the time to implement it fully (at least I hope).

triggercut1 · 06-01-2006, 09:51 AM

I can understand why it might've been omitted, but agree that it's fairly glaring. Warming up pitchers is a huge part of late-game strategy in baseball.

andymac · 06-01-2006, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggercut1

Warming up pitchers is a huge part of late-game strategy in baseball.

Agreed, but if not implemented well is a major pain in the ass

.

cdheer · 06-01-2006, 10:14 AM

I have always been one to use warmups in baseball sims, and always liked the idea.

However, I do agree that the warmups in OOTP 6.x didn't make much sense. Since the AI never had to warm pitchers up, it was essentially a handicap against the human player, particularly in non-DH leagues. So I turned it off.

I would like to see it come back, but only if it works better. The model I always liked was one used way, way back in the day on SSI's Computer Baseball:

Both human and AI managers had to warm pitchers up
You could warm up no more than two pitchers at a time (so no taking Turner Field into account, but that's no big deal IMHO)
Pitchers took an average of 2-3 batters to warm up
A change in inning/half-inning counted as 2 batters
A visit to the mound counted as one batter; a mound visit also told you the status (OK, tired, etc.) of the pitcher
You could visit the mound twice in an inning, but on the second visit you had to replace the pitcher
Pitchers left in the bullpen too long would tire
You could check pitcher status while your team was batting without a mound visit (duh)

I loved this. In particular, the 2-visit rule often made me think and take calculated risks. Not every pitcher warmed up at exactly the same rate (and IIRC starters used in the pen took longer). Sometimes I knew I had to yank my pitcher but the guy in the bullpen wasn't quite ready. So I'd do a mound visit...ugh, still not ready. Do I risk another mound visit? If I do, he might be ready...or he might not.

That's what I'd love to see. I'll post this in the suggestions forum as well.

onthepunt · 06-01-2006, 10:15 AM

even EA have bullpen warmup!

biggamejrs · 06-01-2006, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggercut1

I can understand why it might've been omitted, but agree that it's fairly glaring. Warming up pitchers is a huge part of late-game strategy in baseball.

AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

biggamejrs · 06-01-2006, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdheer

I have always been one to use warmups in baseball sims, and always liked the idea.

However, I do agree that the warmups in OOTP 6.x didn't make much sense. Since the AI never had to warm pitchers up, it was essentially a handicap against the human player, particularly in non-DH leagues. So I turned it off.

I would like to see it come back, but only if it works better. The model I always liked was one used way, way back in the day on SSI's Computer Baseball:

Both human and AI managers had to warm pitchers up
You could warm up no more than two pitchers at a time (so no taking Turner Field into account, but that's no big deal IMHO)
Pitchers took an average of 2-3 batters to warm up
A change in inning/half-inning counted as 2 batters
A visit to the mound counted as one batter; a mound visit also told you the status (OK, tired, etc.) of the pitcher
You could visit the mound twice in an inning, but on the second visit you had to replace the pitcher
Pitchers left in the bullpen too long would tire
You could check pitcher status while your team was batting without a mound visit (duh)

I loved this. In particular, the 2-visit rule often made me think and take calculated risks. Not every pitcher warmed up at exactly the same rate (and IIRC starters used in the pen took longer). Sometimes I knew I had to yank my pitcher but the guy in the bullpen wasn't quite ready. So I'd do a mound visit...ugh, still not ready. Do I risk another mound visit? If I do, he might be ready...or he might not.

That's what I'd love to see. I'll post this in the suggestions forum as well.

This sounds perfect.

Sweed · 06-01-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MZBKA

I remember when playing OOTP 6 (or was is OOTP 5) using the warmup option, there was no way to tell WHEN your pitcher was warmed up! So I just turned it off. If the 'pen option is added, please have something that tells us when the relief is ready to go!

Actually it said (warm) next to the pitcher in the slot on the lineup card screen where he was warming up. Haven't played in awhile though so can't recall if it said cold if he wasn't ready.

andymac · 06-01-2006, 11:43 AM

Looks good cdheer. The only change I would make is that it should take a certain number of in-game pitches, not batters, for a pitcher to get warm. This keeps a player from being able to warm up over the course of 2 1-pitch at-bats. Obviously then, between innings would count as a certain number of pitches.

Sweed · 06-01-2006, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dashby

As far as gameplay strategy goes the neccessity to have the forethought to warm up a pitcher when you see your starter is going bad is huge. There aren't a whole lot of actual in-game strategies when you really think about it. Batting - swing, take a pitch, bunt. Pitching - pitch, pitch around, intentional walk, couple more. A Few more variables in base-running and fielding. But the challenge of managing your pitchers and having to tend to the warm-ups really adds to the immersiveness of a baseball sim.

It's not there so, I'm not going to lose a lot of sleep over it but, I would prefer to have it.

Yep, I'd like to have it too. Never bothered me that the AI did not have it, I looked at it as an evening out factor since the human player has an overall advantage against the AI. I would like the AI to do it also but only if it can be made to do it in a realistic manner. I know EA and others have it in their games but does the AI actually look ahead at the l\r matchups and what is available on the bench to the opposing team when making it's decisions?
For the AI to do it right it has to consider many things..
score, inning being played, matchups, fatigue from previous games, how many games before the next day off, overall bullpen fatigue, does pitcher bat next inning, batters coming up, batters still available to pinch-hit,
etc, etc, etc. I consider all of these things and more when using my pen. If the AI can't do these things then I would rather it could pick whoever it wants when it needs them. YMMV.

As for the human palyer, I liked the fact that it did make you think ahead and couldn't just go to the pen on a whim because something was going wrong. So if it could be added in the patch with little effort as it was in previous versions I'd be all for it.

06-01-2006, 02:00 AM	#1
dashby Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 153	bullpen warmup As far as gameplay strategy goes the neccessity to have the forethought to warm up a pitcher when you see your starter is going bad is huge. There aren't a whole lot of actual in-game strategies when you really think about it. Batting - swing, take a pitch, bunt. Pitching - pitch, pitch around, intentional walk, couple more. A Few more variables in base-running and fielding. But the challenge of managing your pitchers and having to tend to the warm-ups really adds to the immersiveness of a baseball sim. It's not there so, I'm not going to lose a lot of sleep over it but, I would prefer to have it.

06-01-2006, 09:21 AM	#9
andymac Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Effingham, IL Posts: 5,725	I would like to see pitcher warmups brought back, but can see why it was left out of this version as it wasn't implemented particularly well in 6.5. I think it could be done well, but it would have to go along with needed complete overhaul of the pitcher creation and usage (which has already been discussed in detail). In the games' current form, warming up pitchers would basically just be a nuisance to me. __________________ June Madness: Links FTB: andymac

06-01-2006, 11:43 AM	#19
andymac Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Effingham, IL Posts: 5,725	Looks good cdheer. The only change I would make is that it should take a certain number of in-game pitches, not batters, for a pitcher to get warm. This keeps a player from being able to warm up over the course of 2 1-pitch at-bats. Obviously then, between innings would count as a certain number of pitches. __________________ June Madness: Links FTB: andymac

06-01-2006, 02:02 AM	#2
TheDROCK Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 210	Totally agree.

06-01-2006, 02:04 AM	#3
Claymore All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 764	Problem was, in previous versions, only the Player had to warm up Pitchers (the AI didn't). Don't know why it wasn't built into the new engine requiring both to warm up relievers. Heck that was a feature of Earl Weaver Baseball way back when!

06-01-2006, 02:05 AM	#4
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,140	agreed, probably not in this version though

06-01-2006, 02:11 AM	#6
MZBKA Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 82	I remember when playing OOTP 6 (or was is OOTP 5) using the warmup option, there was no way to tell WHEN your pitcher was warmed up! So I just turned it off. If the 'pen option is added, please have something that tells us when the relief is ready to go!

06-01-2006, 08:10 AM	#7
draven085 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,074	I was looking for this option last night and was disappointed to see that it wasn't included. I agree that having to warm up relievers adds to the experience of in-game managing, not to mention being far more realistic than simply calling on a fireman when your current hurler runs into some trouble. Hopefully this is something that can be added in a later patch.

06-01-2006, 09:10 AM	#8
Scruff Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 243	I don't mind that the computer doesn't have to warm up their pitchers. In real life managers tend to do a pretty good job in that department. It's probably more realistic to have the computer not do it at all than do it poorly. In the last version, the warmup period was too long, IIRC, something like 3 batters, and the time between innings didn't count. Does anyone know how long you have to warm pitchers up for now? It'll be awhile before I actually play a game, I'm still working on setting my league up.

06-01-2006, 09:34 AM	#10
QuestGAV Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 2,010	This is a pretty important component of in-game baseball strategy. It seems like a natural place to look when you get a chance to start adding features.

06-01-2006, 09:51 AM	#12
triggercut1 Bat Boy Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4	I can understand why it might've been omitted, but agree that it's fairly glaring. Warming up pitchers is a huge part of late-game strategy in baseball.

06-01-2006, 10:15 AM	#15
onthepunt Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 139	even EA have bullpen warmup!