Gonegold.com statement of something big? - Page 6

lschaef · 03-14-2002, 12:34 PM

So does anyone have any guesses on what the big announcment is? This is that thread right?

MetsRon2002 · 03-14-2002, 12:35 PM

Yes, I have added the Rosters to HH.

Khaos, you need help!

By the way, a real polo shirt is of better quality than a K-mart brand. That is why they cost more. Same with Levi's jeans hundreds of other products.

Again, the ML licence HELPS sell a game. This is a fact! HH is not just like an arcade game that you would find on the game boxes, but a full fledged game that you can make better just like OOPT4, only no way will it sim as good as OOTP4 as it is not geared only for simming. BUT, I have had lots of success simming.

HH stinks at playing 38 year olds in A ball and bad trade AI. But OOTP4 shows that to as it keeps wanting me to put my old players in AA or A ball and leaving guys in A ball in the late 20's.

mad0die · 03-14-2002, 12:41 PM

How many people own both HH and OOTP and play both? I'd guess quite a few.

The point many people are trying to make is that they are very different games. The share a lot of the same market (obviously), but they give you baseball on a computer in very different styles. I like them both. I've played them both. Eventually I get tired of playing the games in HH and go to OOTP to be a GM.

I probably won't buy another HH game until I get a PS2 (or xbox) or whatever console they put it on. HH is best served as a console game.

MetsRon2002 · 03-14-2002, 12:45 PM

mad0die

The HH boards are raving about how much better the game is on the PC compared to the PS2 version. You may want to take a look there and got it for the PC.

Henry · 03-14-2002, 01:00 PM

I guess I'll say it Again !!

(ONE) Once a game gives in to MLB licensing, the developer is severely restricted on what he can and can't do (for example, can't use money - must use points) and the price has to go up so the MLBPA gets their cut. With OOTP, The availability of the Lehman database allows real players and costs nothing other than the time and effort to download. I'm perfectly willing to do that to be able to use real money in my financials instead of points. and I don't want the MLB license. That's one point where we have different needs... doesn't make either of us wrong - just different

It's also important to realize that the Lehman database is not "owned" by Markus & Co. so there is no control over it as far as accuracy, etc. It is the people on this board such as Rolen that offer their time to improve that part of the game. this means that any problem you have with player ratings is the databases fault - or possibly the roster creator who missed a detail. By the way, any of us can go in and fix things like that.

(TWO) Don't lose site of the fact that OOTP, although it can be used with real players, was designed with a different goal in mind. It was designed to give the player the truest sense possible of running a ballclub. In that sense, it HAS TO, by definition, NOT attempt to replay stats that have already been recorded. Diamond Mind and others are their for that purpose. OOTP uses the Lehman database to obtain stats, convert them to ratings and talent levels, then add enough randomness to the equation to allow anything to happen - thus giving you, the player, the reality of dealing with the unexpected. Barry Bonds will likely perform like Barry Bonds - but he will not duplicate his stats to the accuracy a game like Diamond Mind might. Any MLB player may take on a totally different path of success - thus the excitement of OOTP.

In the world of fictional players, this becomes even more exciting becasue "Randy Holloway" is a "non entity" meaning I don't know him from Adam other than my scout says he's the next Roger Clemens... only time will tell and that's the beauty of OOTP.

What most of this HH versus OOTP versus DMB issue comes down to is what you, as an individual expect from the game. Each game has (and should have) a different audience. I love OOTP because of the fictional aspect - you may love HH because of the animations - and someone else may love DMB becasue Barry will be within 5% of his actual 2001 statistics. All different goals...

MetsRon2002,
the reason your getting so much "flak" here is becasue your indirectly "flaming" the game. Your comments are being taken as severe critisizm of OOTP and the reality is HH has some big problems too. Most of us really want OOTP to stay in Markus' control so what happened to HH doesn't happen here as well. No reason to argue with us

If what you mean when you say HH is Major league and OOTP is Minor league... is that HH sells more games, then fine - that's true. But if you mean HH is a better baseball simulation, you simply can't say that because they were designed to be two different things to start with.

[ March 14, 2002: Message edited by: Henry ]

Mike D · 03-14-2002, 01:20 PM

Ok mets ron, you have gone on enough. Barry Bonds being 39 years old and being able to steal would seem a little odd, if it weren't for the fact that Rickey Henderson is 42 and can still steal 30 bases a year (I'm not saying that have the same speed, so don't even bother). And please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Barry also a 40-40 guy? So him stealing 30 bases this years would be realistic, no? Metsron, your never going to "win" this arguement. Your dominated by the number of people who like OOTP and have intelligence... (not you metbal)... And of course the HH board is dominated by people who "like" 2003, anyone who bought this years version has to be a diehard fan, because everyone who hated last year's VERY buggy version wouldn't bother with another coaster for their beer. Enjoy your HH and we'll enjoy our OOTP.... Good Day......... I said Good Day.

Carplos · 03-14-2002, 01:26 PM

Bonds stole 13 bases last year is all.. on a team that stole 57 overall. That's not a lot of stolen bases overall for a team, even if they stole an average amount he could probably steal 20-25.

Erich Ingram · 03-14-2002, 03:01 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MetsRon2002:
[QB]Khaos ,

Your statements about High Heat baseball are ridiculous!

HH 2003 is a great sim to either let the computer generate the outcome or play your self and have a great career mode that takes age into consideration!

I have heard of Bonds stealing 50 bases in OOTP4 at 39 years old! Get real!!
[quote}

Ok here is the deal Bonds stole 50 bases because I did not update his speed to a C instead of the A it started with. Once you fix that he will only steal about 15 bases in the year. Please stop the bleeding with the comments about Bonds stealing. Yes he is 39 but the age is not taken into effect when looking at the ratings. It is not the fault of the game it is my fault for not changing it ahead of time.

Can we now stop blaming OOTP4 for Bonds stealing so much.

JML · 03-14-2002, 04:52 PM

I had a milkshake today.

Rpmbucs · 03-14-2002, 05:01 PM

Any chance the big news will be the announcment of Ruben Rivera as STB spokesman. "Season Ticket its a steal!"

Andy · 03-14-2002, 05:02 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Rpmbucs:
Any chance the big news will be the announcment of Ruben Rivera as STB spokesman. "Season Ticket its a steal!"<hr></blockquote>

Khaos · 03-14-2002, 05:34 PM

Mike D, great post just for the ending Fez "good day"

MetsRon2002 · 03-14-2002, 06:17 PM

I am really getting into the trading aspect. Especially not being able to get TX to Part with Blalock or SD to part with Burroughs.

By the way, I did not mean to say that HH is a better sim than OOTP4, that is not true, what is true is that HH is not an arcade, throw your wrist out pouncing on joystick buttons type of game. That would be the PS2 version. The PC version of HH 2003 sounds very good and something worth upgrading to from HH 2001 which I am currently enjoying.

I am now playing OOPT4 at home and work!

Oh yeh, and comparing Ricky Henderson to Barry Bonds in speed makes no sense! How many times did Barry break the 100 steals mark? 90? 80? 70? 60?.... you get the idea. Ricky is steaking bases at 41-42 because that is what he built his career on, Bonds is a master blaster homer man!

CMH · 03-14-2002, 08:01 PM

before you read this understand that i am no way undermining or defending anyone or any game. i've played both High Heat 2002 and now OOTP4, so i can relate to this topic.

Personally i feel as if MetsRon is doin a good job of explainin himself. he is basically sayin that he enjoys HH for "playing" a game and OOTP for simming a game. he's also agreed that BOTH OOTP and HH have their problems. if you dont agree, look at his posts. the only reason why he continues to name OOTP's minor flaws are because most of you are playing this one sided. I have not seen one person agree that OOTP is not perfect. instead everyone is attacking MetsRon and tellin him he is wrong, wrong, wrong. Maybe if people would stop being biased and just agree to the fact that both games are different and have their faults and acclaims, then we could better understand each other. (and for some reason i see someone takin that last piece, quoting it and then sayin...wat acclaims does HH possess??? blah blah)...get smart people. MetsRon has gone into this argument defending both games. he is not criticizing one more than the other, he is treatin them fairly AND is only tryin to explain that both games are different and both have their faults. you guys are attackin him and sayin that he is bringin down the quality of OOTP. he is not doin that. open your eyes for once! my goodness. i hate it when people think they are right all the time and can never ever look at it from the other person's eyes and THEN they always say "oh you are so stubborn, b/c you dont wanna see the truth!"

ridiculous...

Hammer755 · 03-14-2002, 08:13 PM

[quote]Originally posted by YankeePride:
Personally i feel as if MetsRon is doin a good job of explainin himself. he is basically sayin that he enjoys HH for "playing" a game and OOTP for simming a game. he's also agreed that BOTH OOTP and HH have their problems. <hr></blockquote>

I agree with you YP, the only point MetsRon made that I vehemently disagree with and have posted about is the MLB license. I think most everyone just takes exception to him calling the game 'Minor League' without the licenses. He's fully entitled to his opinion, and has made several good points, but I can't disagree more with that one. But, again, my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it.

[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: Hammer755 ]

bigphesta · 03-15-2002, 06:03 AM

Minor league? Yeah, at least when you visit the mound in OOTP the game doesn't crash... or when you play in Wrigley you can ACTUALLY hit a pop up.

Truth is, I played High Heat for 2 years and although it is a great "play" game, I am no longer a 'joystick jockey.' (well, except for X-Wing Alliance). The FACT is that OOTP4 is a MUCH deeper game, and unlike HH, it IS multiplayer capable (no offense to danger z who made a great utility) and that's what I play the game for... although, I am starting to think that Markus needs to choose multi player or single player because some of the changes from 3 to 4 hurt one or the other. For instance, the FA system is much better for single player, while it has some problems for online leagues. Then there's the whole trade issue which is a non-issue for online leagues, while it 'was' shaky before the new patch.

Yossarian · 03-15-2002, 07:06 AM

[quote]Originally posted by bigphesta:
The FACT is that OOTP4 is a MUCH deeper game, and unlike HH, it IS multiplayer capable (no offense to danger z who made a great utility) and that's what I play the game for... although, I am starting to think that Markus needs to choose multi player or single player because some of the changes from 3 to 4 hurt one or the other.<hr></blockquote>

Until you can play OOTP live vs a human opponent via TCP/IP or some internet matchmaking service, it's kind of a stretch to say that it even has multiplayer in the traditional sense. Yes you can play online leagues but unless I'm missing something big aren't you essentially just sending files to each other? It's more like PBEM. There is no realtime interaction which is the key feature of multiplayer gaming. This is not a putdown to OOTP, in fact I like it a lot.

[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: Yossarian ]

GamingVoice.com · 03-15-2002, 07:33 AM

Haven't seen HH2003 yet (on the way), but the High Heat series is NOT just for arcade mode. In fact, it would be better served if they got rid of arcade mode altogether (we tried with FPS Baseball, but Sierra wouldn't listen to us).

High Heat is a much deeper on-field game in manage mode than is OOTP4. OOTP4 has limited manage options (enough to make managing a game worthwhile, however). OOTP4 is a strong GM game, however -- this is its main draw. HH is weak in the GM tools -- and not just using $$ vs. points. Trade AI is unreliable, for example.

The big problem with High Heat is that it's produced by a major company who solely cares about the bottom line and not quality. They will sell more copies of the game to the joystick jockeys and therefore must cater the game mostly to them. Markus has the luxury of addressing a niche market of serious baseball gamers and can give them the meat they want instead of the fluff.

That said, OOTP4 would be soooooo much stronger with animation. Reading the PBP is one thing. Seeing the routine ball roll to the shortstop only to have him boot it is a greater thing entirely. Baseball is a very visual art. And animation does not mean arcade.

brendanrfoley · 03-15-2002, 08:17 AM

Oh man, this is too exciting.

I won't bve shy about it, I have console roots and typically have always played vidoe, not text based, baseball.

And man, High Heat still plays a really, really mean game of ball. However, consdiering HH already has the liscensing, too much would need to be changed.

So I don't think it is the linking up. But man, would could the news be? I can't wait!

CommishJoe · 03-15-2002, 08:29 AM

1st -- One of OOTP's great points is it's financial system. If they got the MLBPA rights, that would go away. Not worth it IMO.

2nd -- I don't consider HH and OOTP to be competitors. Each one caters to a different breed of baseball fan. HH is arcade, OOTP is for stat junkies.

3rd -- I used to like the idea of joining HH and OOTP. But, I've seen 3DO's awful support with HH, and I also saw them try to ruin Jumpgate (one of the best massively multiplayer online games I have ever seen). I don't want 3DO going within 100 miles of OOTP!!!!

4th -- HH and OOTP treat age differently. Have you seen the post on the boards with Bonds' internal stats?

<a href="http://pub38.ezboard.com/ftheclubhousegeneralhighheatbaseballdiscussion.sho wMessage?topicID=27817.topic" target="_blank">http://pub38.ezboard.com/ftheclubhousegeneralhighheatbaseballdiscussion.sho wMessage?topicID=27817.topic</a>

Sorry, but I like the way OOTP does it better. With age, ratings will decline. But, a 39 year old with A-A Speed and SB will still steal bases. I have no problems with this.

5th -- I haven't bought HH since 2001. My main goal is to run an on-line league. In this aspect, HH doesn't even come close. OOTP is, by far, the best sim engine for an on-line league.

Really, all this arguing about HH and OOTP is pointless. They are ENTIRELY different products, for different purposes. Personally, I think BBPro 98 was better than HH, but I would agree they would be closer in comparison than HH and OOTP.

As for the big suprise (gotta say something on topic

), I'm hoping it's the on-line simulator. I had a radio station that I broadcast games live on in my last league, but this would blow that right out of the water!!

03-14-2002, 12:41 PM	#103
mad0die All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: TX Posts: 913	How many people own both HH and OOTP and play both? I'd guess quite a few. The point many people are trying to make is that they are very different games. The share a lot of the same market (obviously), but they give you baseball on a computer in very different styles. I like them both. I've played them both. Eventually I get tired of playing the games in HH and go to OOTP to be a GM. I probably won't buy another HH game until I get a PS2 (or xbox) or whatever console they put it on. HH is best served as a console game. __________________ Commish GUBA

03-14-2002, 01:00 PM	#105
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	I guess I'll say it Again !! (ONE) Once a game gives in to MLB licensing, the developer is severely restricted on what he can and can't do (for example, can't use money - must use points) and the price has to go up so the MLBPA gets their cut. With OOTP, The availability of the Lehman database allows real players and costs nothing other than the time and effort to download. I'm perfectly willing to do that to be able to use real money in my financials instead of points. and I don't want the MLB license. That's one point where we have different needs... doesn't make either of us wrong - just different It's also important to realize that the Lehman database is not "owned" by Markus & Co. so there is no control over it as far as accuracy, etc. It is the people on this board such as Rolen that offer their time to improve that part of the game. this means that any problem you have with player ratings is the databases fault - or possibly the roster creator who missed a detail. By the way, any of us can go in and fix things like that. (TWO) Don't lose site of the fact that OOTP, although it can be used with real players, was designed with a different goal in mind. It was designed to give the player the truest sense possible of running a ballclub. In that sense, it HAS TO, by definition, NOT attempt to replay stats that have already been recorded. Diamond Mind and others are their for that purpose. OOTP uses the Lehman database to obtain stats, convert them to ratings and talent levels, then add enough randomness to the equation to allow anything to happen - thus giving you, the player, the reality of dealing with the unexpected. Barry Bonds will likely perform like Barry Bonds - but he will not duplicate his stats to the accuracy a game like Diamond Mind might. Any MLB player may take on a totally different path of success - thus the excitement of OOTP. In the world of fictional players, this becomes even more exciting becasue "Randy Holloway" is a "non entity" meaning I don't know him from Adam other than my scout says he's the next Roger Clemens... only time will tell and that's the beauty of OOTP. What most of this HH versus OOTP versus DMB issue comes down to is what you, as an individual expect from the game. Each game has (and should have) a different audience. I love OOTP because of the fictional aspect - you may love HH because of the animations - and someone else may love DMB becasue Barry will be within 5% of his actual 2001 statistics. All different goals... MetsRon2002, the reason your getting so much "flak" here is becasue your indirectly "flaming" the game. Your comments are being taken as severe critisizm of OOTP and the reality is HH has some big problems too. Most of us really want OOTP to stay in Markus' control so what happened to HH doesn't happen here as well. No reason to argue with us If what you mean when you say HH is Major league and OOTP is Minor league... is that HH sells more games, then fine - that's true. But if you mean HH is a better baseball simulation, you simply can't say that because they were designed to be two different things to start with. [ March 14, 2002: Message edited by: Henry ]</p>

03-14-2002, 01:20 PM	#106
Mike D Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: In a van, down by the river Posts: 2,802	Ok mets ron, you have gone on enough. Barry Bonds being 39 years old and being able to steal would seem a little odd, if it weren't for the fact that Rickey Henderson is 42 and can still steal 30 bases a year (I'm not saying that have the same speed, so don't even bother). And please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Barry also a 40-40 guy? So him stealing 30 bases this years would be realistic, no? Metsron, your never going to "win" this arguement. Your dominated by the number of people who like OOTP and have intelligence... (not you metbal)... And of course the HH board is dominated by people who "like" 2003, anyone who bought this years version has to be a diehard fan, because everyone who hated last year's VERY buggy version wouldn't bother with another coaster for their beer. Enjoy your HH and we'll enjoy our OOTP.... Good Day......... I said Good Day. __________________ Sometimes the best laid plans will never get you laid the way you plan.

03-14-2002, 03:01 PM	#108
Erich Ingram Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 2,201	[QUOTE]Originally posted by MetsRon2002: [QB]Khaos , Your statements about High Heat baseball are ridiculous! HH 2003 is a great sim to either let the computer generate the outcome or play your self and have a great career mode that takes age into consideration! I have heard of Bonds stealing 50 bases in OOTP4 at 39 years old! Get real!! [quote} Ok here is the deal Bonds stole 50 bases because I did not update his speed to a C instead of the A it started with. Once you fix that he will only steal about 15 bases in the year. Please stop the bleeding with the comments about Bonds stealing. Yes he is 39 but the age is not taken into effect when looking at the ratings. It is not the fault of the game it is my fault for not changing it ahead of time. Can we now stop blaming OOTP4 for Bonds stealing so much. __________________ Erich Ingram (Rolen17) IOSBL San Diego Aztecs 2010, 2012,2013, 2014 World Series Champions Maelstrom Padres 2026 World Champions eMLB Washington Nationals

03-14-2002, 05:01 PM	#110
Rpmbucs Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: South Bend, Indiana Posts: 117	Any chance the big news will be the announcment of Ruben Rivera as STB spokesman. "Season Ticket its a steal!" __________________ Robert Ex-South Bend Studebakers-OOL KC Royals- NBSL Baseball Union- Pitsburgh Ochorios- Jamaica League

03-14-2002, 12:34 PM	#101
lschaef Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 242	So does anyone have any guesses on what the big announcment is? This is that thread right?

03-14-2002, 12:35 PM	#102
MetsRon2002 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: USA Posts: 28	Yes, I have added the Rosters to HH. Khaos, you need help! By the way, a real polo shirt is of better quality than a K-mart brand. That is why they cost more. Same with Levi's jeans hundreds of other products. Again, the ML licence HELPS sell a game. This is a fact! HH is not just like an arcade game that you would find on the game boxes, but a full fledged game that you can make better just like OOPT4, only no way will it sim as good as OOTP4 as it is not geared only for simming. BUT, I have had lots of success simming. HH stinks at playing 38 year olds in A ball and bad trade AI. But OOTP4 shows that to as it keeps wanting me to put my old players in AA or A ball and leaving guys in A ball in the late 20's.

03-14-2002, 12:45 PM	#104
MetsRon2002 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: USA Posts: 28	mad0die The HH boards are raving about how much better the game is on the PC compared to the PS2 version. You may want to take a look there and got it for the PC.

03-14-2002, 01:26 PM	#107
Carplos Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,847 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	Bonds stole 13 bases last year is all.. on a team that stole 57 overall. That's not a lot of stolen bases overall for a team, even if they stole an average amount he could probably steal 20-25.

03-14-2002, 04:52 PM	#109
JML Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The act or process of locating. Posts: 2,154	I had a milkshake today.

03-14-2002, 05:02 PM	#111
Andy Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 2,263	[quote]Originally posted by Rpmbucs: <strong>Any chance the big news will be the announcment of Ruben Rivera as STB spokesman. "Season Ticket its a steal!"</strong><hr></blockquote>

03-14-2002, 05:34 PM	#112
Khaos Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canfield, OH Posts: 473	Mike D, great post just for the ending Fez "good day" __________________ squish

03-14-2002, 06:17 PM	#113
MetsRon2002 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: USA Posts: 28	I am really getting into the trading aspect. Especially not being able to get TX to Part with Blalock or SD to part with Burroughs. By the way, I did not mean to say that HH is a better sim than OOTP4, that is not true, what is true is that HH is not an arcade, throw your wrist out pouncing on joystick buttons type of game. That would be the PS2 version. The PC version of HH 2003 sounds very good and something worth upgrading to from HH 2001 which I am currently enjoying. I am now playing OOPT4 at home and work! Oh yeh, and comparing Ricky Henderson to Barry Bonds in speed makes no sense! How many times did Barry break the 100 steals mark? 90? 80? 70? 60?.... you get the idea. Ricky is steaking bases at 41-42 because that is what he built his career on, Bonds is a master blaster homer man!

03-14-2002, 08:01 PM	#114
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	before you read this understand that i am no way undermining or defending anyone or any game. i've played both High Heat 2002 and now OOTP4, so i can relate to this topic. Personally i feel as if MetsRon is doin a good job of explainin himself. he is basically sayin that he enjoys HH for "playing" a game and OOTP for simming a game. he's also agreed that BOTH OOTP and HH have their problems. if you dont agree, look at his posts. the only reason why he continues to name OOTP's minor flaws are because most of you are playing this one sided. I have not seen one person agree that OOTP is not perfect. instead everyone is attacking MetsRon and tellin him he is wrong, wrong, wrong. Maybe if people would stop being biased and just agree to the fact that both games are different and have their faults and acclaims, then we could better understand each other. (and for some reason i see someone takin that last piece, quoting it and then sayin...wat acclaims does HH possess??? blah blah)...get smart people. MetsRon has gone into this argument defending both games. he is not criticizing one more than the other, he is treatin them fairly AND is only tryin to explain that both games are different and both have their faults. you guys are attackin him and sayin that he is bringin down the quality of OOTP. he is not doin that. open your eyes for once! my goodness. i hate it when people think they are right all the time and can never ever look at it from the other person's eyes and THEN they always say "oh you are so stubborn, b/c you dont wanna see the truth!" ridiculous...

03-14-2002, 08:13 PM	#115
Hammer755 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,348	[quote]Originally posted by YankeePride: <strong>Personally i feel as if MetsRon is doin a good job of explainin himself. he is basically sayin that he enjoys HH for "playing" a game and OOTP for simming a game. he's also agreed that BOTH OOTP and HH have their problems. </strong><hr></blockquote> I agree with you YP, the only point MetsRon made that I vehemently disagree with and have posted about is the MLB license. I think most everyone just takes exception to him calling the game 'Minor League' without the licenses. He's fully entitled to his opinion, and has made several good points, but I can't disagree more with that one. But, again, my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it. [ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: Hammer755 ]</p>

03-15-2002, 06:03 AM	#116
bigphesta Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Des Moines, Iowa Posts: 1,366	Minor league? Yeah, at least when you visit the mound in OOTP the game doesn't crash... or when you play in Wrigley you can ACTUALLY hit a pop up. Truth is, I played High Heat for 2 years and although it is a great "play" game, I am no longer a 'joystick jockey.' (well, except for X-Wing Alliance). The FACT is that OOTP4 is a MUCH deeper game, and unlike HH, it IS multiplayer capable (no offense to danger z who made a great utility) and that's what I play the game for... although, I am starting to think that Markus needs to choose multi player or single player because some of the changes from 3 to 4 hurt one or the other. For instance, the FA system is much better for single player, while it has some problems for online leagues. Then there's the whole trade issue which is a non-issue for online leagues, while it 'was' shaky before the new patch.

03-15-2002, 07:06 AM	#117
Yossarian Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 87	[quote]Originally posted by bigphesta: <strong>The FACT is that OOTP4 is a MUCH deeper game, and unlike HH, it IS multiplayer capable (no offense to danger z who made a great utility) and that's what I play the game for... although, I am starting to think that Markus needs to choose multi player or single player because some of the changes from 3 to 4 hurt one or the other.</strong><hr></blockquote> Until you can play OOTP live vs a human opponent via TCP/IP or some internet matchmaking service, it's kind of a stretch to say that it even has multiplayer in the traditional sense. Yes you can play online leagues but unless I'm missing something big aren't you essentially just sending files to each other? It's more like PBEM. There is no realtime interaction which is the key feature of multiplayer gaming. This is not a putdown to OOTP, in fact I like it a lot. [ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: Yossarian ]</p>

03-15-2002, 07:33 AM	#118
GamingVoice.com Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 76	Haven't seen HH2003 yet (on the way), but the High Heat series is NOT just for arcade mode. In fact, it would be better served if they got rid of arcade mode altogether (we tried with FPS Baseball, but Sierra wouldn't listen to us). High Heat is a much deeper on-field game in manage mode than is OOTP4. OOTP4 has limited manage options (enough to make managing a game worthwhile, however). OOTP4 is a strong GM game, however -- this is its main draw. HH is weak in the GM tools -- and not just using $$ vs. points. Trade AI is unreliable, for example. The big problem with High Heat is that it's produced by a major company who solely cares about the bottom line and not quality. They will sell more copies of the game to the joystick jockeys and therefore must cater the game mostly to them. Markus has the luxury of addressing a niche market of serious baseball gamers and can give them the meat they want instead of the fluff. That said, OOTP4 would be soooooo much stronger with animation. Reading the PBP is one thing. Seeing the routine ball roll to the shortstop only to have him boot it is a greater thing entirely. Baseball is a very visual art. And animation does not mean arcade.

03-15-2002, 08:17 AM	#119
brendanrfoley Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 65	Oh man, this is too exciting. I won't bve shy about it, I have console roots and typically have always played vidoe, not text based, baseball. And man, High Heat still plays a really, really mean game of ball. However, consdiering HH already has the liscensing, too much would need to be changed. So I don't think it is the linking up. But man, would could the news be? I can't wait!

03-15-2002, 08:29 AM	#120
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	1st -- One of OOTP's great points is it's financial system. If they got the MLBPA rights, that would go away. Not worth it IMO. 2nd -- I don't consider HH and OOTP to be competitors. Each one caters to a different breed of baseball fan. HH is arcade, OOTP is for stat junkies. 3rd -- I used to like the idea of joining HH and OOTP. But, I've seen 3DO's awful support with HH, and I also saw them try to ruin Jumpgate (one of the best massively multiplayer online games I have ever seen). I don't want 3DO going within 100 miles of OOTP!!!! 4th -- HH and OOTP treat age differently. Have you seen the post on the boards with Bonds' internal stats? <a href="http://pub38.ezboard.com/ftheclubhousegeneralhighheatbaseballdiscussion.sho wMessage?topicID=27817.topic" target="_blank">http://pub38.ezboard.com/ftheclubhousegeneralhighheatbaseballdiscussion.sho wMessage?topicID=27817.topic</a> Sorry, but I like the way OOTP does it better. With age, ratings will decline. But, a 39 year old with A-A Speed and SB will still steal bases. I have no problems with this. 5th -- I haven't bought HH since 2001. My main goal is to run an on-line league. In this aspect, HH doesn't even come close. OOTP is, by far, the best sim engine for an on-line league. Really, all this arguing about HH and OOTP is pointless. They are ENTIRELY different products, for different purposes. Personally, I think BBPro 98 was better than HH, but I would agree they would be closer in comparison than HH and OOTP. As for the big suprise (gotta say something on topic ), I'm hoping it's the on-line simulator. I had a radio station that I broadcast games live on in my last league, but this would blow that right out of the water!! __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.