My take on 18 - losing interest

[NoOne]

some of the OP's concerns can be alleivated with "GM-legacy Mode" - a check box in Global Settings of a loaded league. no longer will the coach be an issue nor strategy of the team, but still delegate as you wish in your gm control settings.

i definitely agree the AI needs an overhaul. it still doesn't handle the bullpen quite right. although if more managers continue to pitch back-end guys 2 or more innings, i guess ootp will have it just right.

trading, game management, roster management -- everything... the problem is that isn't 'sexy.' at least a third to half won't even notice if they did improve it.

as far as trading high-end prospects, you'd have to look into those things more... editor in comissioner mode to ensure it wasn't inaccuracy among other possible causes. really high end guys take a lot on normal/neutral. definitely not 2 backups in my experience... although on occaison i have been surprised, but more the exception than the rule

if you want raitngs on, i've been using the lowest accuracy rating and have liked the results... instead of TCr being the only cause of low-round draft picks turning out, you actually see moderately decent players further along in the draft than normal... although still a crap shoot to see even with a ton of money for amatuer scouting and a great scout. stats only will be a lot of fog of war, almost all reactionary behaviour. definitely a bit tougher, but you can dominate it ~nearly the same with time. can always know what the ratings are with the league baseline from stats and ai settings.

------about recent comment/quote above
it's all math, there is a 'best way(s)' relative to each context - game situation or settings. anything near 50/50 or occur too infrequently will be tough on the eye, which makes alot of it seem mysterious.

anything competitive with a human, it's in your best interest to at least look into some things as opposed to 100% ad lib, if you enjoy winning. anythign involving money like the mlb and you see it took decades to overcome that similar arguments. no excuse when billions of dollars are at play, but for a video game no problem at all, of course.

there's no mystery to it, only chances of it occuring relative to context. honestly in 10-20 years the data that will be collected is going to change a few things, which will then cause some ripples before a new more sophisticated equilibrium is found. when so much money is at stake, you follow suit or fall behind.

['94 EXPOS]

No One and Anyone Who Cares to Read,

I will elaborate on my points a little further:

- indeed the game is all math...I get it....but if the developers wanted to make the game unbeatable they could do this very easily...I did not do well in economics in school but I imagine sales would probably cool off somewhat....I understand human nature is to try and formulate ways to win...I play this game to win as well....my point is that if you want to find flaws in this game you will find them and if you look so hard that it ruins the game for you then what is the point of playing?

- the AI: it is not perfect but I think it is quite good and a tremendous achievement...for example, in my current game the AI has built the Orioles and Brewers into true sustainable powerhouses that can compete with my team top to bottom on the 25 man roster....further, complaints that the AI has not improved are not accurate....the differences between '14 to '18 are huge/massive/gicantic...just like the game itself the AI keeps getting better

- art vs reality: no doubt modern stats will play a role in how real baseball is played....but for now (thankfully for me) mankind has not broken down human DNA to the point that we know what we will do before we do it....I most likely would be marked for disposal!....in the meantime, Ryan Goins will continue to deliver with runners on base but not be able to get a hit at any other time....the old timers will argue he is a clutch hitter while the math weenies will say it is just a mathematical anomaly...the truth is somewhere in the middle

My final point is this....this game is cool....I have no problem with people arguing for improvements and these forums have provided me with knowledge and entertainment....but....if (I will call out the OP here) the game frustrates you to the point where you don't enjoy it and your list of alleged deficiencies is longer than your grocery list then it is time to move on...the game is supposed to be fun

[knightnorth]

Originally Posted by '94 EXPOS

My final point is this....this game is cool....I have no problem with people arguing for improvements and these forums have provided me with knowledge and entertainment....but....if (I will call out the OP here) the game frustrates you to the point where you don't enjoy it and your list of alleged deficiencies is longer than your grocery list then it is time to move on...the game is supposed to be fun

Yeah, you're right. This is my time to step away for a couple years. I usually take a year off between sports sims so I can appreciate the advancements a little more. I got 16/17/18 all in a row and I guess I'm just experiencing that burnout where the game has gotten predictable and not fun for me. They got those team licences, (was that last year?) and that was advancement enough to keep me interested. There has just been no hook in 18 that made it that much better than 17 for me and it got stale pretty quickly. This post was just my experience and review of 18 as I saw it and I posted it as a last hurrah to see where others stood. To see if there was any advise or suggestions that I could go back and tinker with in the game. While I appreciate all the tips and help I've tried all the things people have suggested here over time. They either diminish the immersion or just feel like another break I have to play through.

['94 EXPOS]

I appreciate your candid response...we definitely all have different experiences with the game....i hope your passion returns!

[bailey]

Try playing with owner has control over budget and give yourself a penny-pinching owner and give every AI a generous owner. Make all owners as young as possible, so you don't have to "fix" it so often when owners die.

[Tim Tellean]

Originally Posted by Calvert98

Curious what settings you use on your Trade AI. Also, I would not use the Stars; this is my first year not using them, and it has made a substantial difference.

It’s just my opinion, but I think the game is “optimized” for MLB standard starts. Anyway, I’d be curious what the settings are and what type of league you usually play.

I suspect this has been discussed ad nauseum but I rarely visit and am in a phase of playing the game so I wonder how stars/stats works for you?

I use the stars as a shorthand and then examine the player(s) in detail before making a move.

To the OP: I agree on trade AI. Once I start to get the stupid trade emails I make the player unavailable.

[Tim Tellean]

Originally Posted by knightnorth

Yeah, you're right. This is my time to step away for a couple years. I usually take a year off between sports sims so I can appreciate the advancements a little more. I got 16/17/18 all in a row and I guess I'm just experiencing that burnout where the game has gotten predictable and not fun for me. They got those team licences, (was that last year?) and that was advancement enough to keep me interested. There has just been no hook in 18 that made it that much better than 17 for me and it got stale pretty quickly. This post was just my experience and review of 18 as I saw it and I posted it as a last hurrah to see where others stood. To see if there was any advise or suggestions that I could go back and tinker with in the game. While I appreciate all the tips and help I've tried all the things people have suggested here over time. They either diminish the immersion or just feel like another break I have to play through.

I just got the game a few weeks ago (no time to play) and am fitting in a little time now to play. I usually play like mad for a month and then put it away until the depth of winter cold and I need a spring "warm" fix.
Try that, play for a bit and put it away. Enjoy baseball real-time and forget about the game. If the game feels like a chore, it is, so quit for a bit.

I enjoyed the real trade deadline this year as I screamed at the TV and Dodgers, "No, don't trade Willie Calhoun, he's 5 stars for a decade!"

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by '94 EXPOS

<snip by noone>
- art vs reality: no doubt modern stats will play a role in how real baseball is played....but for now (thankfully for me) mankind has not broken down human DNA to the point that we know what we will do before we do it....I most likely would be marked for disposal!....in the meantime, Ryan Goins will continue to deliver with runners on base but not be able to get a hit at any other time....the old timers will argue he is a clutch hitter while the math weenies will say it is just a mathematical anomaly...the truth is somewhere in the middle
<snip by noone>

This will really bum you out...

dna is just binary (a,t,g,c are 2x2 and exclusively on one strand... when dna is 'read' it's done so when the strands are split = "0" and "1" in any language is still 0 and 1.

dna is just the storage unit... epi-genome (possibly called something different now) is the cool thing to look into... plus, meosis and the outcomes of recombination and what it means to genetic variation.

oh, and in any exclusive space, like earth and likely the universe, there are a finite # of molecules acting out as they "should" according to very specific and incontrevertible rules (known/unknown at present time) it's very likely that 'choice' and all related things, including free will, are a figment of our minds. there likely is no choice or way to influence the future... it's very likely "hard-coded" as they say.

but, it can still be fun. thank god our perception of reality can be so immersive, lol.

yay for endorphins and other synthetic means of happiness

[Calvert98]

Originally Posted by Tim Tellean

I suspect this has been discussed ad nauseum but I rarely visit and am in a phase of playing the game so I wonder how stars/stats works for you?

I use the stars as a shorthand and then examine the player(s) in detail before making a move.

To the OP: I agree on trade AI. Once I start to get the stupid trade emails I make the player unavailable.

This is my first year not using them and it’s added a lot to the immersion in the game. I did a little reading on it before-hand and decided to try it, and I’m glad I did. It really forces you to focus more on the stats, scouting “bars” (I use what the Scouts use), and Scouting reports.

The one downside to your point about a short-hand, is that it does tend to take longer when looking reviewing players.

But another upside is that trades, seem to make more sense; at least to my eye. Now this of course I’m sure has something to do with the added Fog-of-war, so perhaps I can’t tell if it's a bad trade, but the result is the same. However, I will say that I have ID’d a couple guys that I’m sure would have been 1 star players, who really stepped-up; that in-turn has helped my team and also my budget!

Finally, it takes away a bit of a user advantage as well, which in-turn for me makes the game more competitive.

[Painmantle]

I'm pretty sure if fixing the AI to a so that a majority of people were happy with it were so simple it would have happened years ago! Lets face it, it is hard to create a Competent CPU AI, the proof is in about every single Puter Game I have ever owned. This is why I play 99.999% Online Leagues, atleast that way when someone makes an crappy trade I know who the Idiot is!

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Calvert98

Yea, I can see how that Nat's trade could do that.

I think things have and do continue to improve in 18. The AI of course is something that is always be improving in a simulation this complex.

I would suggest two things: Change the Trade AI settings to "Very Hard" and "Favor prospects". And drop the stars altogether.

The very hard part I can get on board with, but favoring prospects makes it impossible to trade for them does it not?

[sprague]

I feel a bit the same way. Been playing since way back with 12. bought 12, 14, 16, 17 and now 18. And while there are improvements along the way, in many ways it still feels like to me I am playing 12 or maybe 14....losing interest is a good way of describing it- thought it is hard to fully put my finger on what it is.

My hope is that there is really something new that catches my eye for 19. I am happy to help with doing work or testing or whatnot to make that so because something I think needs to come to give the game some kind of boost to make us say- wow its a totally new experience.

For anyone new reading this thread, that is not in any way to make you think this is a poor sim. Its not, it is excellent- well done, with a very good company of great customer service. Anyone new will likely fully enjoy ootp 18. This thread is more I guess for some of us oldtimers as we express our own interatction with the game after several years of buying and playing

[Marsupilami]

as with all games. playing against the AI is only really interesting for a short while, basically to get to know the game.

it gets interesting playing against other human players...see online leagues

[UKRedSox]

Everyone is different in the levels of enjoyment you can attain.

Have you tried an online league, this takes out the AI element as you can management every aspect of the game if you wish

[NoOne]

ai trading (among other things) works better in more polished, more well-funded sports game... i don't think it's irrational to pine for at least that level of competency in the future. if i've seen it work better elsewhere, i think it's a valid request/suggestion for ootp.

ootp can't handle a depth chart where dh/position player swap off, lol. simple stuff like that? player evaluation is terrible - probably the root of why trades suck. how it fills the minors is somethign left to be desired too. some pages don't even sort properly, lol... i've seen them use the excuse that it's because it's alphanumeric, as if there aren't existing ways to deal with that in any computer language likely used or any db query/report formatting.

relievers are possibly used how they are likely to be used in coming years, *i think. more about leverage, longer outings etc, maybe... obviously not the norm now, though.

2ip outings in ootp for SU and MR is the norm for some reason. long relievers can't pitch very long because they get tired so fast even with high stamina and low-useage, so they need some hybridized stamina usage for sure. The AI can't even handle a bullpen properly after how long? i promise this is not so complicated logic. this is almost as sad as the lack of sorting on some pages, but not quite as bad.

the game is great but it has parts that are not that great, nonetheless. facts are facts.

i find ignorance is the best path to happiness in these cases. i never look through the trade transactions, for example.

this game is large and sprawling and ?indie-level funding? or whatever... so things get prioritized and put to the side etc. this stuff is inevitable. bringing it up in forums is a good thing, not a personal attack on ootp. it helps them prioritize. it's the smart and right thing to do, even if the peanut gallery is inevitable wrong a healthy chunk of the time... as long as the mob is happy, all is well

[RchW]

Originally Posted by sprague

I feel a bit the same way. Been playing since way back with 12. bought 12, 14, 16, 17 and now 18. And while there are improvements along the way, in many ways it still feels like to me I am playing 12 or maybe 14....losing interest is a good way of describing it- thought it is hard to fully put my finger on what it is.

My hope is that there is really something new that catches my eye for 19. I am happy to help with doing work or testing or whatnot to make that so because something I think needs to come to give the game some kind of boost to make us say- wow its a totally new experience.

For anyone new reading this thread, that is not in any way to make you think this is a poor sim. Its not, it is excellent- well done, with a very good company of great customer service. Anyone new will likely fully enjoy ootp 18. This thread is more I guess for some of us oldtimers as we express our own interatction with the game after several years of buying and playing

There is such a difference between v18 and v14 and even more than v12. It is so much harder to win. So much harder to stack the team with a top 5 top 10 player at every position. I went from multiple consecutive WS to missing the playoffs 4 of 6 seasons in one league. In another haven't won a WS in 4 seasons after 6WS in 7 seasons from v12-v16.

The AI is better, tougher to fleece in trades, tougher to get the FA you want and it punishes me for lazy in-game managing often. Since v 16 I struggle to complete 2 seasons in each league because I take more time to set and change my roster, and play much more slowly through each seasons games because I know I won't win the division by 10+ games.

I don't think I got dumber. The game got significantly better from v16 on.

[Déjà Bru]

I will be back. I've left a number of times and yet I have always returned. Even on this latest sabbatical, I visit occasionally as you can see. I will be back.