Do you want to argue the call?

[Dan Theman]

Originally Posted by WWBL Commissioner

I tend to think that if Markus took the time to put it in the game it does something. I'm not saying it has some big hidden effect but I do think it changes something, maybe one call goes your way , maybe your players ratings get a little bump, but I do think Markus would not have added it at all if it didn't do anything

Very good point - I doubt he enjoys wasting time while coding. As Henry mentioned, it's likely to remain a secret - we know the game contains several transparent effects, and this is likely to be one of them.

[JimboJones]

Originally Posted by Dan Theman

Very good point - I doubt he enjoys wasting time while coding. As Henry mentioned, it's likely to remain a secret - we know the game contains several transparent effects, and this is likely to be one of them.

But what's the point of having it as an option if it is not explained? I know what the potential risk is, but what is the potential reward? Any type of strategy option like this needs to have its risks/rewards clearly defined, otherwise it is useless.

[crackpott]

Originally Posted by WWBL Commissioner

One other reason is to keep the player form getting run by the ump. It's a lot better for Dusty Baker to go get tossed than to let Sammy get run for questioning a call

Bingo. That's what I've been campaigning for it to do for a while (Not sure where Jax linked, it wouldn't work... I assume it was to one of my many posts on this.). When you argue, you're doing it because the player is getting into an argument with an ump. No guarantee he gets thrown out (much like there's no guarantee you will), but if you want to make sure he doesn't you can risk your managing job. Meh. Maybe by OOTP 10 either something like this will be implemented, or the arguing function will be gone.

[Dan Theman]

Originally Posted by JimboJones

But what's the point of having it as an option if it is not explained? I know what the potential risk is, but what is the potential reward? Any type of strategy option like this needs to have its risks/rewards clearly defined, otherwise it is useless.

The point is that we treat it like real life, where we DON'T have managers with instruction books detailing what the chance of a specific ratings boost is if they hop out of the dugout or not.

If something like this WAS clearly defined, it would be detrimental to the game because it would take one more stop toward us viewing it as a collection of algorithms and one step away from us seeing it as an almost organic, abstract reflection of real baseball - which is what makes it fun to most of us, unless someone out there likes doing calculus in their spare time.

[WWBL Commissioner]

Originally Posted by JimboJones

But what's the point of having it as an option if it is not explained? I know what the potential risk is, but what is the potential reward? Any type of strategy option like this needs to have its risks/rewards clearly defined, otherwise it is useless.

I think it's meant to be a guessing game. In real life when you argue a call you don't know what the result will be, you could make the ump "make it up to you later" you could just piss him off and not get another call all game, you could inspire your team or you could just make them mad that you got your shower first.

I for one like that we just don't know what getting tossed does in the game. I will say again I really doubt that Markus would spend time coding it in for fluff, I tend to think it has some effect, and that's enough for me

[JimboJones]

Originally Posted by Dan Theman

The point is that we treat it like real life, where we DON'T have managers with instruction books detailing what the chance of a specific ratings boost is if they hop out of the dugout or not.

If something like this WAS clearly defined, it would be detrimental to the game because it would take one more stop toward us viewing it as a collection of algorithms and one step away from us seeing it as an almost organic, abstract reflection of real baseball - which is what makes it fun to most of us, unless someone out there likes doing calculus in their spare time.

I'm not looking for any exact numbers as far as chances of being ejected, ratings boost, etc. Nor am I asking Markus to reveal any of his algorithms. I just want to know, generally speaking, what do I have to gain by arguing a call?

All I get is a statement that the play was close and do I want to argue the call? How should I know?? I didn't SEE the play, I read about it. It's a damn text sim! In real life, a manager argues because he saw the play differently than the ump did. In a text sim, what reason is there to say "yes, I want to argue"? If there is no reason to say yes, why would anyone ever do it?

[mohnnyjay]

Originally Posted by Dan Theman

The point is that we treat it like real life, where we DON'T have managers with instruction books detailing what the chance of a specific ratings boost is if they hop out of the dugout or not.

If something like this WAS clearly defined, it would be detrimental to the game because it would take one more stop toward us viewing it as a collection of algorithms and one step away from us seeing it as an almost organic, abstract reflection of real baseball - which is what makes it fun to most of us, unless someone out there likes doing calculus in their spare time.

Although I'm a newbie to the game, I would like to think my solo league team, the New Orleans Crescents won one for the "gipper" (sorry for the football quote) when they came back and won a close game in the bottom of the 10th after I was thrown out in the 7th for arguing a close call at first. Did it boost my players ... it is more fun to think so.

By the way, the league (Texas League) that I'm using was put together by Malleus Dei and it is a very good league except for all the 5"0 players (must be a "Yoda" thing).

[Henry]

Originally Posted by JimboJones

I'm not looking for any exact numbers as far as chances of being ejected, ratings boost, etc. Nor am I asking Markus to reveal any of his algorithms. I just want to know, generally speaking, what do I have to gain by arguing a call?

All I get is a statement that the play was close and do I want to argue the call? How should I know?? I didn't SEE the play, I read about it. It's a damn text sim! In real life, a manager argues because he saw the play differently than the ump did. In a text sim, what reason is there to say "yes, I want to argue"? If there is no reason to say yes, why would anyone ever do it?

Why do you argue a call in real life? I mean, you know the umpire isn't going to change his mind, so why do you argue? Is it simply emotion, or do you think he might be a bit more in your favor next time?

The point is, you argue because your mad and you want the umpire to know it. You really don't think about later, your just P-o'd right now. In fact, arguing with him may hurt you as well as help you...

If you don't like the option, then simply say "no" when it comes up.

[JimboJones]

Originally Posted by Henry

Why do you argue a call in real life? I mean, you know the umpire isn't going to change his mind, so why do you argue? Is it simply emotion, or do you think he might be a bit more in your favor next time?

The point is, you argue because your mad and you want the umpire to know it. You really don't think about later, your just P-o'd right now. In fact, arguing with him may hurt you as well as help you...

If you don't like the option, then simply say "no" when it comes up.

As stated earlier in the thread, there are 3 reasons I can think of to argue a call in real life:

1) To try to intimidate the ump and possibly gain a "makeup" call in your favor later in the game.

2) To show support for your players, and therefore motivate them a little.

3) Take the focus off your player's anger and prevent him from getting ejected.

All I want to know is if there is a CHANCE any of these things could happen if I argue a call? Otherwise what's the point?

It's not that I don't like the option, I just don't know what it does.

[Henry]

Originally Posted by JimboJones

All I want to know is if there is a CHANCE any of these things could happen if I argue a call?

Do not know since Markus has never posted on this subject.

[originalgamer]

Is it possibly just fluff that doesnt do anything, and thats why its never been explained? Just an idea.