arguing

saves the day82 · 04-04-2004, 07:29 PM

what effect will arguing have, will you still be given the option to argue with the umps after a questionable call? obviously you may be thrown out but will it have a positive impact on your team in any way? how will the effects in ootp6 differ from those in ootp5?

crackpott · 04-04-2004, 07:30 PM

In OOTP5, it's just a way to vent. It has no positive impact. I proposed in V6 that arguing would save a player from ejection (ie. your player starts getting into it with the ump, you step in, you get ejected.), but not much came of that.

Night2000 · 04-04-2004, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crackpott
In OOTP5, it's just a way to vent. It has no positive impact. I proposed in V6 that arguing would save a player from ejection (ie. your player starts getting into it with the ump, you step in, you get ejected.), but not much came of that.

They really need to make arguing a valid option that actually does something. Or they should just remove the option, if all it does is get you thrown out of the game. At least let arguing
psyche up the team, where there is a chance that they will play better.

Ragnar · 04-04-2004, 09:36 PM

I always figured it was their little way of jabbing you in the ribs just as your in your highest state of anger. The feature is quite interesting.

saves the day82 · 04-04-2004, 11:03 PM

well i can vent just as well if I press the N key as opposed to the Y key so all its really come to for me is that I argue all the time in september(I play all september and october games, but nothing else) as long as my place in the standings doesn't have any chance to change and I just don't argue in the playoffs, especially since its useless...

Henry · 04-04-2004, 11:10 PM

The option would be to have the game make the decision for you... is that what you would rather have ? Arguements and getting thrown out of games is part of baseball.

Henry

purduerowdy · 04-04-2004, 11:36 PM

it would be interesting to have more of an option with arguing.

like, say, choices

a. arguing violently - likely will result in ejection, but has a higher chance of pumping up your team, also may make umpire angry and affect calls

b. moderate arguement - possible ejection, not likely to influence umps calls, possibility of pumping up team

c. light protest - no ejection possible, no team pumped up, but might let umps know you think the calls are unfair and might influence their decisions on very close calls.

just some ideas for the future..

edm · 04-04-2004, 11:55 PM

I thought for sure this post was going to be about the "OOTP6 - speed up release ? - OPEN for commentsr" thread

saves the day82 · 04-05-2004, 12:33 AM

I agree wtih purduerowdy. Arguing and getting ejected is a part of baseball, but with that comes influence in the game, if you're gonna have something in there simply because it happens, but not include its effect then it may as well not happen. Thats like having the option to warm up a pitcher permanently on, but having no negative effects on bringing in a cold pitcher.

Night2000 · 04-05-2004, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Henry
The option would be to have the game make the decision for you... is that what you would rather have ? Arguements and getting thrown out of games is part of baseball.

Henry

If that is all arguing will do then it's a useless option. Think about it. Obviously if we are playing the game solo. Then we want to manage in the game. So why would anyone want to get thrown out, for arguing with the umpire? If that was the case then we would just fast sim the game.

thomamon · 04-05-2004, 01:05 AM

Are we 100% certain it has no effect? Could it be one of this items that's coded that we don't know about. I have argued to get thrown out just to get my team going again, you know, to try and give them some spunk. It seems to work on occaision, or it's pure coinceadince.

alinkens · 04-05-2004, 01:27 AM

I really like the ability to argue.. However I think purduerowdy's idea would make the arguing a bit cooler... There are times I really want to argue, but dont because I dont want to be thrown out.. It if had options than I would be more apt to argue.

Bald Eagles · 04-05-2004, 01:50 AM

I've been thrown out and had a significant lead - only to have the AI blow it and I lost in a blowout. I should have won that game, and could have had I not been ejected (kicks more dirt).

adamgould · 04-05-2004, 02:14 AM

C'mon people. How many real games have you seen when arguing and getting thrown out actually changes the end result of the game? Hell, why don't we ask Markus to create a program that makes decisions based upon human feelings in real game situations? Oh wait, I know, because thats stupid and impossible.

The way arguing is now, is just fine.

Plus, isn't it a bit late to start asking for these kinds of major changes? The game will be out in the next couple weeks.

purduerowdy · 04-05-2004, 02:27 AM

note: i'm not proposing these changes in ootp6, just noting for sometime in the future.. ootp 7, 8, 9?

arguing does effect games. you cant argue that it doesnt pump up players at times. also, even if umps arent supposed to be influenced, they will be according to psychology. minimally, yes.

so for pumping up players, i'd just be saying that like 2 or 3 of you batters are bumped up .010 on their average for the rest of the game, or 5 hrs/550 ABs. i dont think guys become supernatural or anything.

maybe guys with good loyalty or team leaders are more inspired.

nestajones · 04-05-2004, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Night2000
They really need to make arguing a valid option that actually does something. Or they should just remove the option, if all it does is get you thrown out of the game. At least let arguing
psyche up the team, where there is a chance that they will play better.

Maybe it does do something, maybe it doesn't.

Does arguing in a real game do anything?

Do you know that for sure? Prove it.

If arguing in OOTP does have an effect, I don't think we should get to know that. The effect of being thrown out of the game should be as unknown as it is in real life.

saves the day82 · 04-05-2004, 05:31 AM

its a game, in real life there's no way to concretly tell, but in a game its either definetly coded in, or not

Night2000 · 04-05-2004, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nestajones
Maybe it does do something, maybe it doesn't.

Does arguing in a real game do anything?

Do you know that for sure? Prove it.

If arguing in OOTP does have an effect, I don't think we should get to know that. The effect of being thrown out of the game should be as unknown as it is in real life.

I think you and some others are missing the point

If we are playing the game out and *not fast simming* then why would we want to argue to get thrown out? Then have the computer manage the rest of the game. There should at least be some benefit if you are going to take the chance. Also for some here that say well maybe it does do something I highly doubt it. Why??? Cause this issue has been brought up quite a few times and Markus, or any of the staff have never confirmed that it does anything other than get you thrown out. If you've followed these boards long enough. Usually if a feature does something the staff or Markus, will confirm that it does.

JPWagner · 04-05-2004, 08:40 AM

This had been a running thread in OOTP forums ever since the feature had been added...I do not want to see any artificial performance hike in your team because you fired up your players by getting tossed.....perhaps the arguing should be a bit more specific and give you a choice, such as:

"Bonds is arguing with the ump over the call"

Now you would have the prompt whether you want to go out and intercede or not. You run the risk of being tossed, but you protected Bonds....failure to come out might increase the chance of a player getting tossed....and there could also be times when you both get thrown out of the game...conversely, you might just let the player argue because you dont want to lose your control of the team and he isn't important enough to protect...this method at least shows you a cause and effect of arguing and not leave it in the OOTP ether.....

Henry · 04-05-2004, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JPWagner
This had been a running thread in OOTP forums ever since the feature had been added...I do not want to see any artificial performance hike in your team because you fired up your players by getting tossed.....perhaps the arguing should be a bit more specific and give you a choice, such as:

"Bonds is arguing with the ump over the call"

Now you would have the prompt whether you want to go out and intercede or not. You run the risk of being tossed, but you protected Bonds....failure to come out might increase the chance of a player getting tossed....and there could also be times when you both get thrown out of the game...conversely, you might just let the player argue because you dont want to lose your control of the team and he isn't important enough to protect...this method at least shows you a cause and effect of arguing and not leave it in the OOTP ether.....

This is the best option offered so far.

Henry

04-04-2004, 07:29 PM	#1
saves the day82 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: california Posts: 69	arguing what effect will arguing have, will you still be given the option to argue with the umps after a questionable call? obviously you may be thrown out but will it have a positive impact on your team in any way? how will the effects in ootp6 differ from those in ootp5?

04-04-2004, 07:30 PM	#2
crackpott Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,961	In OOTP5, it's just a way to vent. It has no positive impact. I proposed in V6 that arguing would save a player from ejection (ie. your player starts getting into it with the ump, you step in, you get ejected.), but not much came of that. __________________ Abandoned Planet - Check it out. The photos don't suck anymore.

04-04-2004, 11:36 PM	#7
purduerowdy Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: iowa Posts: 101	it would be interesting to have more of an option with arguing. like, say, choices a. arguing violently - likely will result in ejection, but has a higher chance of pumping up your team, also may make umpire angry and affect calls b. moderate arguement - possible ejection, not likely to influence umps calls, possibility of pumping up team c. light protest - no ejection possible, no team pumped up, but might let umps know you think the calls are unfair and might influence their decisions on very close calls. just some ideas for the future.. __________________ TLB - Pittsburgh Pirates, co-commish JOBL - Detroit Stars - 2011 JOBL Champs IOSBL - Westchester Comets

04-04-2004, 11:55 PM	#8
edm All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,999	I thought for sure this post was going to be about the "OOTP6 - speed up release ? - OPEN for commentsr" thread Last edited by edm; 04-05-2004 at 12:36 AM.

04-05-2004, 01:05 AM	#11
thomamon Global Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 5,274	Are we 100% certain it has no effect? Could it be one of this items that's coded that we don't know about. I have argued to get thrown out just to get my team going again, you know, to try and give them some spunk. It seems to work on occaision, or it's pure coinceadince. __________________ Thomas A. Montalto Please check out my Stupid Little Blog - http://www.stupidlittleblog.com

04-04-2004, 09:36 PM	#4
Ragnar Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,458	I always figured it was their little way of jabbing you in the ribs just as your in your highest state of anger. The feature is quite interesting.

04-04-2004, 11:03 PM	#5
saves the day82 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: california Posts: 69	well i can vent just as well if I press the N key as opposed to the Y key so all its really come to for me is that I argue all the time in september(I play all september and october games, but nothing else) as long as my place in the standings doesn't have any chance to change and I just don't argue in the playoffs, especially since its useless...

04-04-2004, 11:10 PM	#6
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	The option would be to have the game make the decision for you... is that what you would rather have ? Arguements and getting thrown out of games is part of baseball. Henry

04-05-2004, 12:33 AM	#9
saves the day82 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: california Posts: 69	I agree wtih purduerowdy. Arguing and getting ejected is a part of baseball, but with that comes influence in the game, if you're gonna have something in there simply because it happens, but not include its effect then it may as well not happen. Thats like having the option to warm up a pitcher permanently on, but having no negative effects on bringing in a cold pitcher.

04-05-2004, 01:27 AM	#12
alinkens All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: CT Posts: 1,072	I really like the ability to argue.. However I think purduerowdy's idea would make the arguing a bit cooler... There are times I really want to argue, but dont because I dont want to be thrown out.. It if had options than I would be more apt to argue. __________________ Owner of the Coast to Coast League's Regina Pride

04-05-2004, 01:50 AM	#13
Bald Eagles Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Waveland & Sheffield Posts: 402	I've been thrown out and had a significant lead - only to have the AI blow it and I lost in a blowout. I should have won that game, and could have had I not been ejected (kicks more dirt).

04-05-2004, 02:14 AM	#14
adamgould Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 16	C'mon people. How many real games have you seen when arguing and getting thrown out actually changes the end result of the game? Hell, why don't we ask Markus to create a program that makes decisions based upon human feelings in real game situations? Oh wait, I know, because thats stupid and impossible. The way arguing is now, is just fine. Plus, isn't it a bit late to start asking for these kinds of major changes? The game will be out in the next couple weeks. __________________ http://www.thegabl.com adamgould@yahoo.com AOL IM: commissionerGABL

04-05-2004, 02:27 AM	#15
purduerowdy Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: iowa Posts: 101	note: i'm not proposing these changes in ootp6, just noting for sometime in the future.. ootp 7, 8, 9? arguing does effect games. you cant argue that it doesnt pump up players at times. also, even if umps arent supposed to be influenced, they will be according to psychology. minimally, yes. so for pumping up players, i'd just be saying that like 2 or 3 of you batters are bumped up .010 on their average for the rest of the game, or 5 hrs/550 ABs. i dont think guys become supernatural or anything. maybe guys with good loyalty or team leaders are more inspired. __________________ TLB - Pittsburgh Pirates, co-commish JOBL - Detroit Stars - 2011 JOBL Champs IOSBL - Westchester Comets

04-05-2004, 05:31 AM	#17
saves the day82 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: california Posts: 69	its a game, in real life there's no way to concretly tell, but in a game its either definetly coded in, or not

04-05-2004, 08:40 AM	#19
JPWagner Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 200	This had been a running thread in OOTP forums ever since the feature had been added...I do not want to see any artificial performance hike in your team because you fired up your players by getting tossed.....perhaps the arguing should be a bit more specific and give you a choice, such as: "Bonds is arguing with the ump over the call" Now you would have the prompt whether you want to go out and intercede or not. You run the risk of being tossed, but you protected Bonds....failure to come out might increase the chance of a player getting tossed....and there could also be times when you both get thrown out of the game...conversely, you might just let the player argue because you dont want to lose your control of the team and he isn't important enough to protect...this method at least shows you a cause and effect of arguing and not leave it in the OOTP ether..... __________________ Formerly J P Falcon....changing screen names is what happens when you do not write down your password, forget it, and then change your email address! Last edited by JPWagner; 04-05-2004 at 09:09 AM.