Browns ready to sever ties with Couch, make offer to Garcia

[Karros270]

The quarterback carousel continues. Where will it stop? No one knows. With so many good quarterbacks out there at relatively cheap prices how many more QB's will be changing teams by the start of next season?


From ESPN.com:

Tim Couch balked at the Cleveland Browns' proposal to cut his contract by more than half last week. In an apparent response, the Browns have now offered a larger deal to jettisoned 49ers quarterback Jeff Garcia.


The Browns have reportedly offered Garcia a two-year deal worth about $8 million, ESPN's Chris Mortensen has confirmed.


The deal, which includes a signing bonus in the range of $4 million to $5 million plus team incentives, is worth more than what Cleveland offered Couch, signaling the team's readiness to cut ties with the quarterback, according to the Cleveland Plain Dealer.


The team's original offer would have cut Couch's salary from $7.6 million to $3 million in 2004 and from $8 million to $3.5 million in 2005. The package also reportedly included $3 million in bonuses and incentives tied to the team's record.


The Browns were expected to extend a second proposal to Couch after he ignored the first, but the Plain Dealer reports that Cleveland coach Butch Davis has decided against sending another offer, a decision made after meeting with Garcia.


Garcia met with the team last week, and was impressive in interviews but did not perform on the field, according to the paper. The Browns also brought Drew Henson in for a tryout last week.


San Francisco released Garcia last Tuesday after he refused a $4 million reduction in his 2004 salary.


Garcia, who has also received interest from the Atlanta Falcons, Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Dallas Cowboys, had not accepted the Browns' offer as of Sunday night, the paper reported.


The 34-year-old quarterback was reportedly in Tampa, Fla., where he was considering his options with those other teams. In Atlanta, Garcia would serve purely as a backup to Michael Vick, while in Tampa Bay, Garcia could compete with Brad Johnson for the starting job.


A source told the paper that the Browns were hopeful Garcia would return to Cleveland on Monday to accept the offer, and that the dealings would be resolved in one way or another before Wednesday.


Garcia had been the 49ers' starter since 1999 when Steve Young retired. In 2000, he set a team single-season passing record with 4,278 yards and threw 31 touchdown passes.


He passed for 2,456 yards and 16 TDs despite missing four games with injuries last season. Garcia had a quarterback rating of 113.0 in December, throwing for 10 touchdowns and running for four.

[Mike D]

I liked Couch coming out of college. I think this move, while not helping the Browns a few years down the line, is the best thing they can do to get the franchise in the playoffs now.

[Mike D]

Also, I'm a little surprised that the Falcons are intrested. Is it merely in a backup role, or is Tom Mora, Jr not liking Vick at the Helm?

[Rizon]

I kinda feel bad for Garcia, going out on a ****ty team with no chance in hell to win anything.

And who the hell does Couch think he is to deserve $7m?? Dude's done nothing to show he's an NFL Starter caliber player, and the best he's shown was some flashes of possibly being a 2nd stringer.

[KurtBevacqua]

Originally posted by Mike D
Also, I'm a little surprised that the Falcons are intrested. Is it merely in a backup role, or is Tom Mora, Jr not liking Vick at the Helm?

I think it's the Falcon facing reality that they really, really sucked when Vick was hurt. And Vick being the high risk kind of player he is, they are laying odd there is a really good chance he goes down again in the not so distant future.

[Mike D]

I don't know if Garcia would take a backup role. It just seemed weird for the Falcons to go after someone who can still start to be a backup. Maybe the should inquire about Shaun King, or Aklili Smith. That way, at least they would have a mobile QB that fits in case Vick gets hurt they can use the same system.

[KurtBevacqua]

Originally posted by Mike D
I don't know if Garcia would take a backup role. It just seemed weird for the Falcons to go after someone who can still start to be a backup. Maybe the should inquire about Shaun King, or Aklili Smith. That way, at least they would have a mobile QB that fits in case Vick gets hurt they can use the same system.

Shaun King just signed with the Cards. As for Smith, let me be the first to laugh out loud heartily. He may be the one guy actually worse than Ryan Leaf.

[Mike D]

Yeah, maybe I was stretching a bit with Smith. Michael Bishop a better name for you?

[LiftTheCurse]

I dont know why Garcia would be interested in Cleveland. At 34 years old...wouldn't he want to be in a place where a championship is not out of the question? Like Miami or Dallas. Both of which have interest in him.

[billycola]

Thank God! Couch plays more like a La-Z-Boy.

[TheRaven]

Originally posted by Rizon
I kinda feel bad for Garcia, going out on a ****ty team with no chance in hell to win anything.

And who the hell does Couch think he is to deserve $7m?? Dude's done nothing to show he's an NFL Starter caliber player, and the best he's shown was some flashes of possibly being a 2nd stringer.

So at your work, if you signed a contract to make 7 million dollars a year, and they tried to take it away from you, you wouldn't protest, and say, 'Who the hell am I to make 7 million dollars anyways?' It's not a question of deserving money. You deserve what you are promised, and the Browns promised this money to Couch, so of course he wants it. If a team is willing to pay a player a ton of money, and if it is in a signed contract, of course they will want it. As would I, and anyone else. Now, the better question may be, 'Is Tim Couch going to get more on the open market then what the Browns offered to cut his contract to?' Probably not, if they just wanted to cut it in half, and that is where you might want to question how smart his decision is. I dont see any team giving him 3.5 mill anyways.

[LiftTheCurse]

This is the NFL...You are given millions of dollars to perform to the best of your abilitly. Couch has done nothing at all to earn the 7 million. Couch reminds me so much of ryan leaf, its makes my head spin

[TheRaven]

Who's to say Couch is not playing to the best of his ability? Do you honestly believe he is not trying? He's a below average to average QB in the league. I believe that is the best of his ability. You don't earn the 7 million by doing certain things. If that was the case, all contracts would be performance based. He agreed to give his services to the Cleveland Browns in exchange for that money. The Browns willingly signed him to that deal and agreed to pay him this money for the right to have him play on his football team.

I hate the argument that professional athletes don't 'earn' the money they get. Everyone earns the money they get. I earn what I get because I agree to work at that rate, as does everyone else in their jobs. If I go above and beyond what my job calls for, I am not underpaid, because I agreed to work at that rate. I can look to take my talents elsewhere for more money if that is the case though. Actors earn the money they get because it is agreed that they will work for that rate, regardless if the movie is a success or not, unless they base their pay on how well the movie does, which would be similiar to the performance bonuses athletes get. As long as you show up and do the job that was outlined to you, then you are fine. In the NFL, his job is to show up and play QB for the Browns. You can argue whether he does that well or not, but regardless of that fact, he has earned all the money he has gotten because the Browns willingly gave him that money to play for them.

My point is not that Tim Couch is a 7 million dollar a year player. But if the Browns are stupid enough to sign him to a contract that pays him that much money, that is not Tim Couch's fault.

[Bobbuttons]

Originally posted by Rizon
And who the hell does Couch think he is to deserve $7m?? Dude's done nothing to show he's an NFL Starter caliber player, and the best he's shown was some flashes of possibly being a 2nd stringer.

Tim Couch hasn't said that he was worth $7m. He was willing to re work his contract to stay a Brown, but cutting anyone's salary by more than half is an insult. It's nice to see a guy who got his ass kicked for 5 years with this team get treated like ****.

[Hammer755]

[tangent] That certainly is a large and annoying sig. [/tangent]

[LiftTheCurse]

Originally posted by TheRaven
Who's to say Couch is not playing to the best of his ability? Do you honestly believe he is not trying? He's a below average to average QB in the league. I believe that is the best of his ability. You don't earn the 7 million by doing certain things. If that was the case, all contracts would be performance based. He agreed to give his services to the Cleveland Browns in exchange for that money. The Browns willingly signed him to that deal and agreed to pay him this money for the right to have him play on his football team.

I hate the argument that professional athletes don't 'earn' the money they get. Everyone earns the money they get. I earn what I get because I agree to work at that rate, as does everyone else in their jobs. If I go above and beyond what my job calls for, I am not underpaid, because I agreed to work at that rate. I can look to take my talents elsewhere for more money if that is the case though. Actors earn the money they get because it is agreed that they will work for that rate, regardless if the movie is a success or not, unless they base their pay on how well the movie does, which would be similiar to the performance bonuses athletes get. As long as you show up and do the job that was outlined to you, then you are fine. In the NFL, his job is to show up and play QB for the Browns. You can argue whether he does that well or not, but regardless of that fact, he has earned all the money he has gotten because the Browns willingly gave him that money to play for them.

My point is not that Tim Couch is a 7 million dollar a year player. But if the Browns are stupid enough to sign him to a contract that pays him that much money, that is not Tim Couch's fault.

1) Contracts are Earned on Peformances. Thats why you always hear people Saying that players has to play well to get a good contract offer. Like Nomar, he is in a Contract year. And if he sucks he wont get sh*t for money, but if he has a MVP year..he will make more then Tejada in Baltimore.
2)Just because a team gives a player a contract, doesn't mean that the players doesn't have to live up to his potential to forful the contract money. Wouldn't you be pissed off if you gave a player 7 million dollars to perform well. But only to see him suck and not even start...for 7 MILLION DOLLARS? What if, 3 years down the line...Peyton sucks, and becomes a below to average QB in the league(never will happen, but a good example for his recent 100 mill contract) your damn right if you said the colts would want to try and re-neg. his contract to better fit his CURRENT performance. Thats all sports is about, current performances. Older players usally always end up taking pay cuts...Frank Thomas did it in Baseball,Malone and Payton did in Basketball, just how it is.
3) when Cleveland gave him 7 million dollars are year contract,m they were DEFINTITLY in the state of mind that he would BE THE Starting QB. Not a 2nd string Qb that has and never will up to his potential,

[TBDD]

Tim Couch hasn't done anything worthwhile since he was at UK.

[Rizon]

Yup, Couch was offered that contract with the belief he would develop into a decent QB (which, by the way, I never believed he would, but theres just something about the city of Cleveland ...).

Couch hasn't lived up to that, never has, and he never will. Now you're "stuck" paying a poor quality QB $7m. I'm sorry, I don't care how nice he is, that's just poor financial management.

The only person Couch has to blame is himself.

[Hammer755]

Originally posted by LiftTheCurse
1) Contracts are Earned on Peformances. Thats why you always hear people Saying that players has to play well to get a good contract offer. Like Nomar, he is in a Contract year. And if he sucks he wont get sh*t for money, but if he has a MVP year..he will make more then Tejada in Baltimore.
2)Just because a team gives a player a contract, doesn't mean that the players doesn't have to live up to his potential to forful the contract money. Wouldn't you be pissed off if you gave a player 7 million dollars to perform well. But only to see him suck and not even start...for 7 MILLION DOLLARS? What if, 3 years down the line...Peyton sucks, and becomes a below to average QB in the league(never will happen, but a good example for his recent 100 mill contract) your damn right if you said the colts would want to try and re-neg. his contract to better fit his CURRENT performance. Thats all sports is about, current performances. Older players usally always end up taking pay cuts...Frank Thomas did it in Baseball,Malone and Payton did in Basketball, just how it is.
3) when Cleveland gave him 7 million dollars are year contract,m they were DEFINTITLY in the state of mind that he would BE THE Starting QB. Not a 2nd string Qb that has and never will up to his potential,

You're joking right?

Most contracts are not based on past performance, but on projected future performance. I say most, because often older guys sign huge contracts that are meant as a reward and not on their potential (John Smoltz comes to mind). Otherwise, why would the Browns have offered him a $7MM contract to begin with? He certainly hadn't earned it.

And if you think Nomar isn't going to get a huge contract regardless of how he performs, then you're crazy. Guys like Malone and Payton took smaller contracts because they wanted to. They wanted a chance at a title, but I can guarantee you either could have gotten megabucks deals somewhere else.

[LiftTheCurse]

Your right...For Younger players contracts are given on what they think they should be able to do in the future. I said the browns gave HIM THAT MONEY BECAUSE AT THE TIME THEY THOUGHT HE WOULD BE THE STARTING QB. NOT THE 2ND STRING QB. However, Guys in the league for 4+ years get contracts basically on what they have done in the past, AND what they think they will do in the future.

Also, If nomar goes .260 18 HR 75 RBI 80 Runs, a very bad year for Nomar standards, he wont get half of what he would get if he would have a .330 28 HR 120 RBI 125 Runs etc etc. Thats why it is called a contract year, that years performance heavily sways the amount of money offered in a contract that the player could be getting from teams.