19th Century 3D Ballparks

[oosl]

Originally Posted by asrivkin

OK, that all sounds good. I'll put a post in each thread with the missing day pictures sometime this week!

Excellent, that will be great!

Also I meant to ask you, in the other thread, you mentioned you planned to do Greenlee Field, did you ever do that one?

Thanks for all you do

M

[asrivkin]

I've got "Daytime Nighttime Suffering" by Paul McCartney and Wings in my head now, but it really wasn't so bad.

No new park for now, but instead some admin/cleanup. I've made a folder on Google Drive, which hopefully has all the missing pieces for at least the 19th century parks:

"Ballparks Complete" folder on Google Drive

This folder has the following:
Day/Night images for the 16 parks posted in the Jazz-Age Ballparks thread that are missing them
Day/Night/Diagram images for the 8 parks in this thread that I made
Zip files for the 8 parks in this thread that I made, now including the Day/Night/Diagram images (these now have "complete" in their zip file names)

You should be able to pick and choose among those, and I think you should also be able to just download the whole shebang, though I think that might be 650 Mb altogether. I didn't include dfswan's park since he already included these images in his post.

Let me know if you have any questions or issues, and hopefully I can address them!

And happy St. Patrick's Day to all who celebrate.

[asrivkin]

Originally Posted by oosl

Excellent, that will be great!

Also I meant to ask you, in the other thread, you mentioned you planned to do Greenlee Field, did you ever do that one?

I haven't, no--I think it briefly approached the top of my to-do list and then sank back down. Braden has done some 3D models of Negro League parks, which he mentions and points to here: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...&postcount=201. But I don't see that Greenlee is among them. You could certainly try your hand at it if you feel like it!

Originally Posted by oosl

Thanks for all you do

Thanks for the encouragement, I appreciate it.

[oosl]

Originally Posted by asrivkin

I've got "Daytime Nighttime Suffering" by Paul McCartney and Wings in my head now, but it really wasn't so bad.

No new park for now, but instead some admin/cleanup. I've made a folder on Google Drive, which hopefully has all the missing pieces for at least the 19th century parks:

"Ballparks Complete" folder on Google Drive

This folder has the following:
Day/Night images for the 16 parks posted in the Jazz-Age Ballparks thread that are missing them
Day/Night/Diagram images for the 8 parks in this thread that I made
Zip files for the 8 parks in this thread that I made, now including the Day/Night/Diagram images (these now have "complete" in their zip file names)

You should be able to pick and choose among those, and I think you should also be able to just download the whole shebang, though I think that might be 650 Mb altogether. I didn't include dfswan's park since he already included these images in his post.

Let me know if you have any questions or issues, and hopefully I can address them!

And happy St. Patrick's Day to all who celebrate.

Thank you for taking the time to do this, I really appreciate it!

St. Patrick's Day is my favorite holiday, so happy St. Patrick's Day to you as well!!

[oosl]

Originally Posted by asrivkin

I've got "Daytime Nighttime Suffering" by Paul McCartney and Wings in my head now, but it really wasn't so bad.

No new park for now, but instead some admin/cleanup. I've made a folder on Google Drive, which hopefully has all the missing pieces for at least the 19th century parks:

"Ballparks Complete" folder on Google Drive

This folder has the following:
Day/Night images for the 16 parks posted in the Jazz-Age Ballparks thread that are missing them
Day/Night/Diagram images for the 8 parks in this thread that I made
Zip files for the 8 parks in this thread that I made, now including the Day/Night/Diagram images (these now have "complete" in their zip file names)

You should be able to pick and choose among those, and I think you should also be able to just download the whole shebang, though I think that might be 650 Mb altogether. I didn't include dfswan's park since he already included these images in his post.

Let me know if you have any questions or issues, and hopefully I can address them!

And happy St. Patrick's Day to all who celebrate.

Thanks again for these! Was there a day/night shot for the Kansas City Federal League park Gordon-Koppel , that’s one of a couple I don’t have day/night shots for.

[thehef]

We should get this thread stickied...

[BaseballMan]

I also plan on adding these to the Silvam and Adion collection i always use.
The ballparks really puts you in the atmosphere of the year you are playing.
One suggestion for the really early years when ballpark photos and data are hard to come by.
I'm not sure how many actually had stands so
why not just use open fields with ropes instead of fences.
I think some early ballparks had trees and were on pastures.
Maybe not put the trees in the field of play though.
If you can find the actual ballpark info great but if not i would say just creating one that can match the ballpark description of the time would work.
Anything would be better than a default modern ballpark.

[asrivkin]

Today, we finish off Pittsburgh.

What I gather from some web research is that the first home for the current Pirates franchise is very close to where they reside today. In 1882 their grounds were in what was then the separate town of Allegheny City, at the site of 1875's Allegheny Exposition. This was Exposition Park (I). The field was prone to flooding, so in 1883 they moved to a field closer to the river but less prone to flooding. This was Exposition Park (II). After a few months, they moved back to Exposition Park (I). It is not clear to me whether these fields used the same grandstand, or what. The next year either more flooding, the fear of more flooding, or just wanting a change of scene, led them to move to Recreation Park, already made by dswans. In 1891 they moved _back_ to a new Exposition Park, which lasted much longer and many historic players and games.

There's not a whole lot else out there about Exposition Parks I and II, and as noted I'm not sure if they even had different grandstands. I found a mention of harness racing there, and the insurance maps and one photo I found do show a track.

Google Drive Link to Exposition Park 1882

The photo claims to be from 1890, so I'm not sure the photo is quite from a version the Pirates used, but I figured it was at least something to work with. I also noted that it was pretty similar to the model of Tampa's Plant Field that I made, so I used that as a base and altered it. I'm not sure that was the best move, particularly since I made the park early on in my endeavors, but what's done is done.

As noted, this completes all the Pittsburgh Pirates' fields back to their formation. The Cardinals are also complete. I've got a few options for what to do next. I'm leaning toward doing the 1876-1887 South End Grounds, which would complete the Beaneaters and also serve to tackle the longest-serving remaining park. Using that criteria would point me to do the Cubs' 1885-1890 West Side Park or the Dodgers' 1884-1889 Washington Park after that, but I don't want to get ahead of myself.

As always, I hope you enjoy it!

[asrivkin]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

I also plan on adding these to the Silvam and Adion collection i always use.
The ballparks really puts you in the atmosphere of the year you are playing.
One suggestion for the really early years when ballpark photos and data are hard to come by.
I'm not sure how many actually had stands so
why not just use open fields with ropes instead of fences.
I think some early ballparks had trees and were on pastures.
Maybe not put the trees in the field of play though.
If you can find the actual ballpark info great but if not i would say just creating one that can match the ballpark description of the time would work.
Anything would be better than a default modern ballpark.

The idea of a pasture/rural base ball grounds is one that I've kicked around for a little while, if only because I know KCStengelSr is looking forward to one. We do know that all of these MLB parks were enclosed, though, even in the 1870s. The first game to charge admission did so back in 1858, at a game held at a racing ground. I think a generic 1800s MLB park would look a lot like the ones already posted here, if maybe not with all the fancy towers that some of them have. I could consider making one, though some of the parks in the Jazz Age thread would probably suffice as well--it's not like small parks from the 1910s-1920s were terribly more sophisticated than their counterparts from a few decades earlier, I think?

[the_mad_monk]

School Street is essentially the path of I279 into the North Shore now.

The history is confusing. The Pirates organization played in "Exposition Park (I)" during the 1882 season. I've never seen any photos or field dimensions. The site is purportedly exactly where Three Rivers Stadium was built. Because of flooding and fires, a field next door was hastily constructed.

"Exposition Park (II)" was built immediately to the east and known as the "upper field" because though it was closer to the river, the elevation was higher. The Pirates started the 1883 season there, but quickly abandoned it due to flooding and returned to Expo I. Expo II site eventually became a parking lot for Three Rivers. They moved to Recreation Park for the 1884 season.

"Exposition Park (III)" was raised on the same site as Expo II. A Players League team opened the park, but folded after that 1890 season. The Pirates moved there for the 1891 season.

Some day, I may finish my version of Expo (III). But in the meantime, enjoy this interpretation a user created for MLB the Show:

https://www.reddit.com/r/mlbtheshows...burgh_pa_xbox/

[zappa1]

Really cool with the river showing.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by asrivkin

Today, we finish off Pittsburgh.

What I gather from some web research is that the first home for the current Pirates franchise is very close to where they reside today. In 1882 their grounds were in what was then the separate town of Allegheny City, at the site of 1875's Allegheny Exposition. This was Exposition Park (I). The field was prone to flooding, so in 1883 they moved to a field closer to the river but less prone to flooding. This was Exposition Park (II). After a few months, they moved back to Exposition Park (I). It is not clear to me whether these fields used the same grandstand, or what. The next year either more flooding, the fear of more flooding, or just wanting a change of scene, led them to move to Recreation Park, already made by dswans. In 1891 they moved _back_ to a new Exposition Park, which lasted much longer and many historic players and games.

There's not a whole lot else out there about Exposition Parks I and II, and as noted I'm not sure if they even had different grandstands. I found a mention of harness racing there, and the insurance maps and one photo I found do show a track.

Google Drive Link to Exposition Park 1882

The photo claims to be from 1890, so I'm not sure the photo is quite from a version the Pirates used, but I figured it was at least something to work with. I also noted that it was pretty similar to the model of Tampa's Plant Field that I made, so I used that as a base and altered it. I'm not sure that was the best move, particularly since I made the park early on in my endeavors, but what's done is done.

As noted, this completes all the Pittsburgh Pirates' fields back to their formation. The Cardinals are also complete. I've got a few options for what to do next. I'm leaning toward doing the 1876-1887 South End Grounds, which would complete the Beaneaters and also serve to tackle the longest-serving remaining park. Using that criteria would point me to do the Cubs' 1885-1890 West Side Park or the Dodgers' 1884-1889 Washington Park after that, but I don't want to get ahead of myself.

As always, I hope you enjoy it!

Would it be a trouble to make a modification to this? This reminds me of Arlington Race track, where Da Bears might move to and i would like to use it for that team in my ASPBL but I would want more seating. If not I'll still use it for them.

[asrivkin]

Sure, could do that. Do you have any sort of photo or illustration you can point to as a guide? Alternately, where do you want the extra seating to be?

[asrivkin]

Hi all,

Today, we have the original South End Grounds, Boston's first home for professional baseball. This served as the home of the Red Stockings during their National Association days starting in 1871, and remained their home through a couple of name changes until a renovation/rebuild led to South End Grounds II in 1888. The SABR article on the grounds covers its entire history until 1914.

Google Drive link to South End Grounds 1876

Since the later version of the South End Grounds was already made, it was relatively simple to take down the grandstand with its fancy turrets and put up the more simple earlier structure. I changed the field markings to reflect 1876 (hence the date on the files) and put up red flags to mark the foul lines at the edges of the field (along with the wall marks). I also added barbed wire to some of the walls since one of the few depictions of the field was in an ad for barbed wire! I also put a background in for all 360 degrees this time. Finally, I added a version of "Sullivan's Tower" with a camera location up there--you can read about it in the SABR article if you like.

This should give the Braves franchise its home park for all 154 seasons of its continuous operation!

Next up will probably be West Side Park 1885 or Washington Park 1884, unless I decide to go off-script.

[zappa1]

Yes, another one to add to the library. Thanks.

[SGJ2]

Originally Posted by asrivkin

Hi all,



Next up will probably be West Side Park 1885 or Washington Park 1884, unless I decide to go off-script.

Want to thank you guys, it is really cool what you do and are able to share with everyone. Really look forward to the Chicago Lake Front parks and the 1883-88 Polo Grounds.

Seeing these parks in 3-D is amazing

[asrivkin]

Happy Cinco de Mayo/Orthodox Easter/Sunday!

I'm happy to post another park today, this is West Side Park, home to the Chicago Cubs back when they were still the White Stockings (and the Colts). The franchise won two pennants while tenants here, though did not win the "World Series" either year, tying the AA's St. Louis Browns 3 games a piece in 1885 and losing to them 4 games to 2 in 1886. In addition to serving as the NL's Chicago outpost, West Side Park also served as the home park for the Western Association's Chicago Maroons in 1888 and hosting contests between the Maroons and teams like the Omaha Omahogs, Des Moines Prohibitionists, and Davenport Onion Weeders.

Google Drive link to West Side Park

Not a whole lot of graphical help for this park, but that actually simplified things a little bit. The dimensions are availabile in Green Cathedrals, and I had inadvertently derived them by coming up with the smallest park that outfielders could fit in. There's a story about the very first game here and how the opposing manager challenged the quoted 215-foot distances down the lines thinking they were actually shorter than that and may be shorter than the 210-foot minimum allowed at the time. The umpire dutifully went out with a tape measure and found the distances to the lines were actually 225 feet down the lines. This is, to make a long story short, just about the smallest park that can work unaltered in OOTP. The park works fine, though depending on where the 3rd out is made, the players may run through the edge of the bleachers when the inning ends.

I usually try to use backgrounds that are from or near the spot where the ballpark is, but Chicago has changed way too much from the 1880s. So, Elgin, Illinois is doing the stand-in. I'll also note for completeness that there's a tower back behind the park that I neglected to put in, but it's not clear to me that it could really even be seen from within the park...

Enjoy!

[Garlon]

Nice work.

[zappa1]

Just got this now. It is nice.

[asrivkin]

Happy Monday!

I'm going off-script for what should hopefully be a useful cause, and posting a 19th-century park that should be of some interest. This is Recreation Park, home to the 1887 World Champion Detroit Wolverines, who are treated as the precursors to the Detroit Tigers in-game.

Recreation Park was the home of the Wolverines during their entire existence from 1881-1888. This was the only time the NL had a team in Detroit.

Google Drive link to Recreation Park Detroit

There's not a ton of information about this park out there, and what does exist is a bit contradictory--Stats Crew has dimensions for the lines and CF but they seem pretty short, especially since another source claims there were zero over-the-fence home runs there. There is a fire insurance map that covers only a part of the grandstand and shows it to be separate, unconnected sections. On the other hand, there are photos that suggest the sections are connected. In any case, the photos were useful for giving a general vibe and if the field and its dimensions aren't 100% historically accurate (I'm sure they aren't) it's hopefully reasonably close for our purposes.

As a little Easter Egg I stuck in the Wolverines' championship pennants, though I'm not sure that they're going to be terribly prominent during the game. I also went for a bit of a ramshackle, kludgy look since the photos suggested the various sections weren't the same size, height, etc...

Next up I think I'll head back to Brooklyn!