Random Simulaton

demons19 · 03-17-2023, 07:39 PM

I had not played this game since FHM5 and figured lets try it again.
There are so many aspects I love but...
I just remembered why I stopped last time.
The simulation appears to be 100% random and having little to do with the players or coaches.
I have a loaded team and the best coach by far and it's .500 and no playoffs. Year after year of random results.
It feels like I have no control of the randomness of it.
You build a great roster, hire the best coach and all these junkie teams are swatting you 5-1 each night. It's almost as if the AI refuses to allow you to dominate even if you do all the right things.
I'm frustrated.

demons19 · 03-18-2023, 01:28 AM

Added Makar and Aho (both on block) to a team 2 points out of the playoff race.
The team went 9-9-3 to finish the season.
Random I tell you!

A full season next year will prove this for sure.

tomkmb · 03-18-2023, 05:57 AM

What's your tactical setup?

demons19 · 03-18-2023, 12:22 PM

I'm the GM with the best coach in the league.
Why do I need a tactical setup?
I allow him to do those jobs.
Unless I am missing something, he's supposed to handle all of that for me.

tomkmb · 03-18-2023, 12:37 PM

Try as it may, the AI (coaches included) will not create optimal conditions for players to succeed, at least from my experience. That includes line creation, role selection and tactics too. You can make a good team (see - high ability players) bad by all of these things being improperly setup.

If you're so inclined, it could be worth playing as a 'Head Coach/GM' option and setting the majority of the tasks to AI then trying to familiarise yourself with them one by one. For instance start by selecting your own player roles based on their skills, then creating your own lines but letting the AI handle tactics etc. If that still doesn't produce the desired results, have a go at setting your own tactics, it's been made easier this year as there is direct feedback on how suitable each tactical setup is for all of the players in your roster, you're able to cater the tactics either globally for the whole team or allocate different tactics to each unit, so you really can find something that should fit everyone's skillset.

There are also factors like Team Harmony, what's yours like? Have you paid attention to your Line Chemistry? Players will develop an affinity with certain players they play with and less so with other players, keeping a keen eye on this will help get the most out of guys performances, it can increase lesser players and make sure highly rated players perform even better for longer, well worth considering when making lines, again, this is something that I'm fairly certain the AI will overlook.

If you're interested in reading anymore about things like tactics there is a link to a great thread here - https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=321016

If you want more info on line composition and which player roles should mesh together/what skillsets work together then I'd recommend searching the subreddit as there has been good discussion there numerous times on this subject - https://www.reddit.com/r/FranchiseHockey/

Plenty of people in single player and multiplayer games have success by having direct influences on their teams, so it's possible to create a team in a way you want to and to 'dominate' though there will always be some variance, as there is in all sports in real life. It just takes a little time to find the nuances of the game but some of these concepts I've mentioned will help on the way there!

tomkmb · 03-18-2023, 12:39 PM

PS. What's the best coach in the league? I've found staff and their impact to be pretty opaque, so I'm just wondering what attributes/reasons you're judging them on.

demons19 · 03-18-2023, 12:41 PM

It's Barry Trotz and his attributes are the pretty much top of the league.
There are zero harmony issues, 100% happy, no conflicts.

tomkmb · 03-18-2023, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demons19

It's Barry Trotz and his attributes are the pretty much top of the league.
There are zero harmony issues, 100% happy, no conflicts.

That's great, always helps to have a happy locker room to build upon!

demons19 · 03-18-2023, 12:44 PM

I have considered coaching the team myself until I saw how long it would take to go line by line adjusting tactics to optimize!
And if you do that, you cannot change those lines or you would need to do it again. That is why I assumed using a coach would handle all of this.

Other than results, how do you know if there is line chemistry?

tomkmb · 03-18-2023, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demons19

I have considered coaching the team myself until I saw how long it would take to go line by line adjusting tactics to optimize!
And if you do that, you cannot change those lines or you would need to do it again. That is why I assumed using a coach would handle all of this.

Other than results, how do you know if there is line chemistry?

If you go to your players profile there is a section (I think on the bottom left hand side maybe?) that will tell you, I can't remember exactly what tab it's on. It's also visible from the 'Lines' screen by just hovering your cursor over each player name, it will bring up a list of players and also tell you the 'strength' of their chemistry together all the way from 'Legendary' to something worse than that which I can't quite recall..maybe 'slight'.

Well, it can be time consuming, especially if you're suffering a lot of injuries (one thing I like to do is hire a trainer with 20 trainer skill, though I'm not sure if that always helps, I'm just acting like it does). You're also able to set the 'Lineups' screen, here you can set out your depth chart for even strength and special teams as you'd like it, then if you get an injury, all you need to do is go to the lines screen and select the 'create lines from lineups' option and it will autopopulate all of the lines as you've set in the lineup screen! So no dragging players around etc, it will just do it all for you, that's a time saving device which I've only just made use of after about 400 hours in game.

Actually, whilst we're briefly talking about lines and stuff, I've found that since joining MP leagues I realised how much I overlooked defensive players in my SP careers. I always wanted flashy players, scorers and passers to blow the opponent away but what can really help is having guys who are hard working, two way, physical and defensive minded. Don't be afraid to have guys in roles like 'Grinder' 'Agressive Forechecker' and 'Backchecking forward' to compliment lines that have playmakers and scorers on them too, this helps give the team balance, especially if you're using one fo the Dmen as an offensive style.

demons19 · 03-18-2023, 12:54 PM

What also plays into my thinking is, if all of the teams have a computer coach, shouldn't the attributes of these coaches along with the attributes of these players decide the outcomes of the games?

Perhaps, a human could do this better but the simulation needs to be based on something. That was the point of my venting

It feels rather random. I arguably have the best coach, the best players yet the results feel random. My last finals some journeyman stiff goalie got to game 7 of the finals. This does not happen in the NHL.

I am not asking a for utopia where my team wins each season because I have the best coach/players but I surly should be in the conversation each year. It's like the Islanders/Oilers of the 80's finishing .500 and missing the playoffs each season. Not going to happen!

tomkmb · 03-18-2023, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demons19

What also plays into my thinking is, if all of the teams have a computer coach, shouldn't the attributes of these coaches along with the attributes of these players decide the outcomes of the games?

Perhaps, a human could do this better but the simulation needs to be based on something. That was the point of my venting

It feels rather random. I arguably have the best coach, the best players yet the results feel random. My last finals some journeyman stiff goalie got to game 7 of the finals. This does not happen in the NHL.

I am not asking a for utopia where my team wins each season because I have the best coach/players but I surly should be in the conversation each year. It's like the Islanders/Oilers of the 80's finishing .500 and missing the playoffs each season. Not going to happen!

Totally, I'm not trying to dismiss your points or concerns at all! Without knowing what goes on under the hood it's hard to tell for certain what impact staff have, there has never been much written about it by players or devs and the manual has the bare bones of info about the attributes, so as far as I know it's all we can do to act upon assumption that they either have minimal impact or a negative one, until proven otherwise and I think because a lot have been in your situation where you'd hoped for more from the AI coach but not gotten it, it leads me to be unsure of their impact at all.

I'd like to hope the AI coaches build their teams a certain way and set up their tactics etc but I just don't know how the AI does it in all honesty. I've not seen terrible teams win cups and be dominant though and I've played probably 100 seasons, usually the teams are always justifiable champions in some way.

Tangerino · 03-18-2023, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demons19

It's Barry Trotz and his attributes are the pretty much top of the league.
There are zero harmony issues, 100% happy, no conflicts.

Man I totally agree with what you're saying with the coaching, I've cheated and maxed out everything made the coach 40 in every attribute and there is still very mediocre seasons.

demons19 · 03-18-2023, 05:08 PM

This is exactly how it feels!
It should not be like this.
If your coach is a super genius and your players are top of the league, you have to win 50+ games each season.

If not, the simulation is random. This is why I quit after FHM5.
It felt like I was wasting my time as GM doing all of this for nothing.

As for taking control as coach, who has 20 minutes of optimization time for each game of the season?
Once your lines change because of injuries, it's another 20 minutes to optimize for the next game.

demons19 · 03-18-2023, 11:20 PM

To be fair, as I head into the 2025-26 season, I have built my best team.
The game has even predicted I am the Stanley Cup favorites.
My team is loaded :
G Shesterkin
D Makar
D Dobson
D Allen (young stud)
D Dickenson (young stud)
C Aho
C Barzal
RW Pastrnak
RW Rantanen
And the rest are no slouches!

I am letting the coach set the roster, tactics and lines. I will reset them after each game. I am also "playing the games out" quickly but not as fast as just simming the day away. I will do this each game and see how it goes.

The pre-season went well, 6-1, 36 goals for, 18 against.

Let's see if my faith in the simulation is restored

bandwagonfan · 03-19-2023, 01:31 AM

I am fairly certain coaches have zero impact on player/team performance. Only thing they do is increase available points in training screen. However the type of a head coach (offensive/defensive/physical) will impact what player roles AI selects.

You shouldnt reset tactics after each game. Keep them for at least 10-15 games so that team can adjust to them. I usually set the tactics at the beginning of the season and forget about them unless team is super underperforming.

Have 2-3 goalscorers (Dangler/Sniper role) and everyone else two-way,counter-attacking,grinder and you should do just fine. If most of your forwards are in offensive roles you gonna get bad results even if your team is stacked.

reverist · 03-19-2023, 02:06 PM

"This is exactly how it feels!
It should not be like this.
If your coach is a super genius and your players are top of the league, you have to win 50+ games each season."

Is this realistic though? Like, there's just no tactical preparation whatsoever, the teams just go out and play a hyped up version of pick-up hockey?

demons19 · 03-20-2023, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reverist

"This is exactly how it feels!
It should not be like this.
If your coach is a super genius and your players are top of the league, you have to win 50+ games each season."

Is this realistic though? Like, there's just no tactical preparation whatsoever, the teams just go out and play a hyped up version of pick-up hockey?

The tactical prep is done by the 32 coaches so the results should be based on the coaches skill and players skill.
All I am saying is, it feels more random. But perhaps I need more seasons to test this theory.

Savoie45 · 03-21-2023, 08:54 AM

Thing is you can't rely strictly on the fact the coach and players have good ratings. A team will have a difficult time succeeding if players are playing in roles that best suit them and they aren't using tactics that work well for them. No matter how good the players are, those two things not favoring the players is going to have an adverse effect on their performance.

demons19 · 03-21-2023, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savoie45

Thing is you can't rely strictly on the fact the coach and players have good ratings. A team will have a difficult time succeeding if players are playing in roles that best suit them and they aren't using tactics that work well for them. No matter how good the players are, those two things not favoring the players is going to have an adverse effect on their performance.

I would agree with you if this was me doing the coaching. I could have a great team and screw it up. That makes sense.
But in my case, 32 teams have 32 computer coaches. Mine happens to be superior. My team is superior. So the 32 computer coaches are left to fight this out. Why does my computer coach underperform and someone else's over achieves unless this was random? Something has to separate one team's results from another team's results. If the teams all have the same computer coach setting the lines and tactics, they all screw up equally. The separator should be player ability.....don't get me wrong, I still enjoy the game but it still feels very random.

03-17-2023, 07:39 PM	#1
demons19 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 164	Random Simulaton I had not played this game since FHM5 and figured lets try it again. There are so many aspects I love but... I just remembered why I stopped last time. The simulation appears to be 100% random and having little to do with the players or coaches. I have a loaded team and the best coach by far and it's .500 and no playoffs. Year after year of random results. It feels like I have no control of the randomness of it. You build a great roster, hire the best coach and all these junkie teams are swatting you 5-1 each night. It's almost as if the AI refuses to allow you to dominate even if you do all the right things. I'm frustrated.

03-18-2023, 01:28 AM	#2
demons19 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 164	Added Makar and Aho (both on block) to a team 2 points out of the playoff race. The team went 9-9-3 to finish the season. Random I tell you! A full season next year will prove this for sure.

03-18-2023, 05:57 AM	#3
tomkmb All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 1,756	What's your tactical setup?

03-18-2023, 12:22 PM	#4
demons19 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 164	I'm the GM with the best coach in the league. Why do I need a tactical setup? I allow him to do those jobs. Unless I am missing something, he's supposed to handle all of that for me.

03-18-2023, 12:37 PM	#5
tomkmb All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 1,756	Try as it may, the AI (coaches included) will not create optimal conditions for players to succeed, at least from my experience. That includes line creation, role selection and tactics too. You can make a good team (see - high ability players) bad by all of these things being improperly setup. If you're so inclined, it could be worth playing as a 'Head Coach/GM' option and setting the majority of the tasks to AI then trying to familiarise yourself with them one by one. For instance start by selecting your own player roles based on their skills, then creating your own lines but letting the AI handle tactics etc. If that still doesn't produce the desired results, have a go at setting your own tactics, it's been made easier this year as there is direct feedback on how suitable each tactical setup is for all of the players in your roster, you're able to cater the tactics either globally for the whole team or allocate different tactics to each unit, so you really can find something that should fit everyone's skillset. There are also factors like Team Harmony, what's yours like? Have you paid attention to your Line Chemistry? Players will develop an affinity with certain players they play with and less so with other players, keeping a keen eye on this will help get the most out of guys performances, it can increase lesser players and make sure highly rated players perform even better for longer, well worth considering when making lines, again, this is something that I'm fairly certain the AI will overlook. If you're interested in reading anymore about things like tactics there is a link to a great thread here - https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=321016 If you want more info on line composition and which player roles should mesh together/what skillsets work together then I'd recommend searching the subreddit as there has been good discussion there numerous times on this subject - https://www.reddit.com/r/FranchiseHockey/ Plenty of people in single player and multiplayer games have success by having direct influences on their teams, so it's possible to create a team in a way you want to and to 'dominate' though there will always be some variance, as there is in all sports in real life. It just takes a little time to find the nuances of the game but some of these concepts I've mentioned will help on the way there!

03-18-2023, 12:39 PM	#6
tomkmb All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 1,756	PS. What's the best coach in the league? I've found staff and their impact to be pretty opaque, so I'm just wondering what attributes/reasons you're judging them on.

03-18-2023, 12:41 PM	#7
demons19 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 164	It's Barry Trotz and his attributes are the pretty much top of the league. There are zero harmony issues, 100% happy, no conflicts.

03-18-2023, 12:44 PM	#9
demons19 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 164	I have considered coaching the team myself until I saw how long it would take to go line by line adjusting tactics to optimize! And if you do that, you cannot change those lines or you would need to do it again. That is why I assumed using a coach would handle all of this. Other than results, how do you know if there is line chemistry?

03-18-2023, 12:54 PM	#11
demons19 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 164	What also plays into my thinking is, if all of the teams have a computer coach, shouldn't the attributes of these coaches along with the attributes of these players decide the outcomes of the games? Perhaps, a human could do this better but the simulation needs to be based on something. That was the point of my venting It feels rather random. I arguably have the best coach, the best players yet the results feel random. My last finals some journeyman stiff goalie got to game 7 of the finals. This does not happen in the NHL. I am not asking a for utopia where my team wins each season because I have the best coach/players but I surly should be in the conversation each year. It's like the Islanders/Oilers of the 80's finishing .500 and missing the playoffs each season. Not going to happen!

03-18-2023, 05:08 PM	#14
demons19 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 164	This is exactly how it feels! It should not be like this. If your coach is a super genius and your players are top of the league, you have to win 50+ games each season. If not, the simulation is random. This is why I quit after FHM5. It felt like I was wasting my time as GM doing all of this for nothing. As for taking control as coach, who has 20 minutes of optimization time for each game of the season? Once your lines change because of injuries, it's another 20 minutes to optimize for the next game.

03-18-2023, 11:20 PM	#15
demons19 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 164	To be fair, as I head into the 2025-26 season, I have built my best team. The game has even predicted I am the Stanley Cup favorites. My team is loaded : G Shesterkin D Makar D Dobson D Allen (young stud) D Dickenson (young stud) C Aho C Barzal RW Pastrnak RW Rantanen And the rest are no slouches! I am letting the coach set the roster, tactics and lines. I will reset them after each game. I am also "playing the games out" quickly but not as fast as just simming the day away. I will do this each game and see how it goes. The pre-season went well, 6-1, 36 goals for, 18 against. Let's see if my faith in the simulation is restored

03-19-2023, 01:31 AM	#16
bandwagonfan Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 38	I am fairly certain coaches have zero impact on player/team performance. Only thing they do is increase available points in training screen. However the type of a head coach (offensive/defensive/physical) will impact what player roles AI selects. You shouldnt reset tactics after each game. Keep them for at least 10-15 games so that team can adjust to them. I usually set the tactics at the beginning of the season and forget about them unless team is super underperforming. Have 2-3 goalscorers (Dangler/Sniper role) and everyone else two-way,counter-attacking,grinder and you should do just fine. If most of your forwards are in offensive roles you gonna get bad results even if your team is stacked.

03-19-2023, 02:06 PM	#17
reverist Major Leagues Join Date: May 2020 Location: Murfreesboro, TN Posts: 312	"This is exactly how it feels! It should not be like this. If your coach is a super genius and your players are top of the league, you have to win 50+ games each season." Is this realistic though? Like, there's just no tactical preparation whatsoever, the teams just go out and play a hyped up version of pick-up hockey?

03-21-2023, 08:54 AM	#19
Savoie45 All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Oregon Posts: 817	Thing is you can't rely strictly on the fact the coach and players have good ratings. A team will have a difficult time succeeding if players are playing in roles that best suit them and they aren't using tactics that work well for them. No matter how good the players are, those two things not favoring the players is going to have an adverse effect on their performance.