Historical rookies before MLB debuts

[nebben]

Is there a way to get MLB players to appear as rookies in the years they started playing professional ball, i.e., minors, and not the year they debuted in the MLB?


I'd like to have a full minor league system (no ghost players) and have historical players go through the developing process. What's the best way to do this?

[The Game]

Originally Posted by nebben

Is there a way to get MLB players to appear as rookies in the years they started playing professional ball, i.e., minors, and not the year they debuted in the MLB?


I'd like to have a full minor league system (no ghost players) and have historical players go through the developing process. What's the best way to do this?

This won't work for all years these days but if you download an old Spritze DB. I believe the last one was 2018? He had their debut at 18. Also has the *** players at 18. Sadly, we lost Sprtize last year. Do a search for threads started by him.

After you find one you can edit the database path in either League Settings - Players? or also under Global sttings - database.

[nebben]

Wonderful, thank you.


It looks like 19 was the latest: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=330708. So, I'm guessing for historical it's good, but you'll start missing players when you get to the late 2010s.


Thanks again.

[robc]

Originally Posted by nebben

Is there a way to get MLB players to appear as rookies in the years they started playing professional ball, i.e., minors, and not the year they debuted in the MLB?


I'd like to have a full minor league system (no ghost players) and have historical players go through the developing process. What's the best way to do this?

When setting up your league, if you check the "Import and maintain real minor leagues" and disable the amateur draft then players should automatically be assigned to the correct minor league team the real they made their minor league debut in real life. You don't need to download a separate database. If you don't disable the amateur draft then players will get assigned to the teams based on the draft.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by nebben

Wonderful, thank you.


It looks like 19 was the latest: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=330708. So, I'm guessing for historical it's good, but you'll start missing players when you get to the late 2010s.


Thanks again.

Haven't been around much lately, but I'm your huckleberry for all things Spritzey. Links in the signature for the two most recent ones. I like to use the 18 Master for importing, because it's much more detailed, and I pair it with the 19 DB, of course. I figure the 18 DB is very similar to the 19 DB, as his DBs never made it past 2015 debuts.

[wbcfan]

If i create a historical league will I have access to players playing over seas in the japanese and korean leagues or are those leagues only included in standard leagues? Basically what I'm looking for is Prime ratings for retired international players that played overseas. In standard leagues I can only find their ratings if they were still playing today. Thanks!

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by wbcfan

If i create a historical league will I have access to players playing over seas in the japanese and korean leagues or are those leagues only included in standard leagues? Basically what I'm looking for is Prime ratings for retired international players that played overseas. In standard leagues I can only find their ratings if they were still playing today. Thanks!

As long as they didn't debut after 2015, they should all be in the Spritze DB. I like to use the main DB in my games, and import a few Spritze guys for each draft, so I'm not an expert in going full bore with it. I did feel that his work should be preserved, and made available though, so I used some space on a Google Drive to get it done.

There are roughly 33,000 players in the Spritze DB. Currently, there are a little over 20,000 MLB players in the main DB. This count does not include NeL players, despite the fact that they are now part of BB-Ref's MLB players. Since 2016 (nobody will be in Spritze that debuted after 2015), about 1,500 players have debuted in MLB. About 18,650 MLB players would be in Spritze, leaving space for roughly 14,350 non-MLB players. These players are historical players, from all over the place. The MLBers themselves, NeL players, Cuban Leaguers, Mexican Leaguers, Japanese Leaguers, Korean Leaguers, Taiwanese Leaguers, PCL leaguers, and life long minor leaguers.

I'm unable to import some players from this DB, due to OOTP not liking the format of the player ID. That may not be a problem, when you use the Spritze DB, as your main DB. Theoretically, their stats should come in, because the codes that OOTP doesn't allow me to import are used for all of their stats. All MLBers that debuted in 2015, and prior, are there as well. It's a real smorgasbord of historical players, and if that's your thing, this is your database. Like I said, I haven't used it as my main DB, so I'm not sure how well it works. Josh Gibson, and Leon Day, of the NeL reached the HoF of my OOTP21 game, so I know that they work well in small batches. Not sure of a full dose, though. I'd say go for it, and see what happens.

For safety's sake, extract the folder into your stats folder, and point to it from your game, so that you don't overwrite the default DB. So, your database path would be:

C:\Users\Admin\Documents\Out of the Park Developments\OOTP Baseball 23\stats\SpritzeHSforOOTP19

When you're going to setup a game, you can set this up to be your default database, as well. There's something about the Database Path in the Setup, so you would point to the Spritze DB, on the first screen of the Setup Wizard. My suggestion is to use the Spritze 19 DB, as your database, but use the master file from the Spritze 18 DB, because it's much more comprehensive, and you'll know what (or who) you're getting. Any more questions, just ask, or PM me. I have been known to disappear for awhile, so you may not get me right away, but keep trying. Enjoy the DB! That's what it's here for.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

There are roughly 33,000 players in the Spritze DB. Currently, there are a little over 20,000 MLB players in the main DB. This count does not include NeL players, despite the fact that they are now part of BB-Ref's MLB players. Since 2016 (nobody will be in Spritze that debuted after 2015), about 1,500 players have debuted in MLB. About 18,650 MLB players would be in Spritze, leaving space for roughly 14,350 non-MLB players. These players are historical players, from all over the place. The MLBers themselves, NeL players, Cuban Leaguers, Mexican Leaguers, Japanese Leaguers, Korean Leaguers, Taiwanese Leaguers, PCL leaguers, and life long minor leaguers.

I was wondering about this. Thanks!

Questions re the PCL guys... What players are included? Basically all of them since the early 1900's thru 2015? Or mostly the notable ones? And for guys who spent significant time in the PCL but also played in other minor leagues, is their full MiLB record included, or just their PCL years?

And re "life long minor leaguers" ... does this mean notable guys who never made The Show, and excludes long-time minor-leaguers who had a cup of coffee in the bigs, or?

An example of both would be Buzz Arlett. I would assume he'd be included as a PCL player since he was a significant one over several years, but he also spent time in the Int'l League, American Assoc, and Southern Lg. Are his IL, AA, and SL years included? In addition, he would be included as an MLBer due to his single season (1931) in the bigs, but would he also be included - minor league stats, that is - as a life-long minor-leaguer, even though technically he wasn't a minor-league-only player? (Arlett is an obvious example, but there are lesser-known guys who share similar scenarios.)

Thanks in advance!

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by thehef

I was wondering about this. Thanks!

Questions re the PCL guys... What players are included? Basically all of them since the early 1900's thru 2015? Or mostly the notable ones? And for guys who spent significant time in the PCL but also played in other minor leagues, is their full MiLB record included, or just their PCL years?

And re "life long minor leaguers" ... does this mean notable guys who never made The Show, and excludes long-time minor-leaguers who had a cup of coffee in the bigs, or?

An example of both would be Buzz Arlett. I would assume he'd be included as a PCL player since he was a significant one over several years, but he also spent time in the Int'l League, American Assoc, and Southern Lg. Are his IL, AA, and SL years included? In addition, he would be included as an MLBer due to his single season (1931) in the bigs, but would he also be included - minor league stats, that is - as a life-long minor-leaguer, even though technically he wasn't a minor-league-only player? (Arlett is an obvious example, but there are lesser-known guys who share similar scenarios.)

Thanks in advance!

Use the link in my sig, for specific examples. Word to the wise though. You can get lost in there. Grab the Spritze18 DB. It has the better master file, whereas 19 was the final edition. I always suggest that you grab both. 18 for the Master file, and 19 for the DB, itself.

I would think by PCL, Spritze was talking about the league where the DiMaggio brothers, and Ted Williams started out, and not the more modern iteration, where the big three (Oakland edition) polished off their minor league careers, before heading to the show.

As for other players, ole Spritze even gave the older 1871 guys, the pre-1871 treatment. I'm not sure if all of their stats (real, and Spritzeified) are in there, but I know he takes their debut dates back quite a bit. Not sure how far he takes Harry Wright (36 on his 1871 debut), or Dickey Pearce (debuted on his 35th birthday), but I know I've seen debuts in there, earlier than 1871. Word of caution on that though. OOTP might not like pre-1871, or (in the case of OOTP23) post-2021 debuts. That might piss the game's import system off. I know you can't go post-2021, but I'm not sure about pre-1871.

I think the numbers that he used for non-MLBers were kind of guestimates for how they would've done in MLB. Like MLB Equivalencies or something. The stuff he did with the numbers in there, was way beyond my comprehension, but it is, bar none, the best way (currently) to include NeL players. I've enjoyed the results I've seen from the likes of Josh Gibson, Burnis Wright, Leon Day, Ted "Double Duty" Radcliffe, and on, and on. I was using these guys back in OOTP16, and it was a ton of fun. I'll see if I can gather up some screenshots for you. I had a 63 season saved game in OOTP16, and a 35 season saved game in OOTP21. Both Random Debut games. Used a random number generator to determine who came in, so it wasn't always stars. Sometimes, it was nobodies. I did that to keep my Random Debut from getting too top heavy. I prefer a well balanced game, so I don't mind getting the lesser knowns, and even the unknowns.

When you got a guy that had a FaceGen from the Spritze DB, you knew you were getting somebody special, even if you hadn't heard of him. Burnis Wright was one of those for me. Lemme see what I can dig up. Don't want to spend too much time on it, or it'll be a bit of a rabbit hole, that I don't emerge from until 2 AM, if you get my drift.

As for life long minor leaguers, yeah, I'm talking about guys who beat around the minor league bushes, but never got a shot in the show. I would think their minor league numbers would be translated to MLB equivalencies. The ones who did get a shot in the show would come in with the normal Lahman ID, and with Spritze they'd be taken back to 18. I don't think they all are though. A mind boggling achievement when you stop, and think about it.

I know he did that for the Asian leagues, because I saw a lot of them in my games. When Hideki Matsui arrived in the 1905 ammy draft (always start in 1901, and go from there), of my OOTP21 RD game, I knew I wanted to use his Japanese numbers, or at least Spritze' interpretation of them, so I deleted the regular Hideki, and imported the Spritze Hideki. Screenshot below. I've voted for him every year for the HoF, but the AI doesn't agree with me. Ah well. Such is life.

Don't be alarmed by the HR totals during the deadball era. Every season is 1984 in the Action Jackson's Historical Random Debut World, in terms of statistical output. It allows a guy like Home Run Baker to compete with a Barry Bonds, or a Mark McGwire for HR titles. It ain't the Deadball Era, and it ain't the Juiced Ball Era, but something in between. With a wild and wacky amount of stolen bases. 1984 featured 4.26 R/G across MLB, which I'm good with. Like I said, somewhere between Deadball, and Crazyball, with the basepaths literally set ablaze.

[thehef]

Great stuff ^^^! Thanks!

FWIW re PCL, my primary interest is in the 1903 to maybe 1970 period, with a sharper focus on the classic 1920's-to-1957 era. So if you have any thoughts on that - primarily if it would be better to use the Spritze db vs OOTP's (with the caveat that of course OOTP's doesn't currently start the PCL until 1921), I'd certainly be interested.

Thanks!

[actionjackson]

Negro Leaguer Bill Foster ate hitters for breakfast, lunch, and dinner in OOTP16. Oscar Charleston had some monster seasons in OOTP16. Elston Howard got on the Spritze train in OOTP16 to take him back to younger days, and include his first year as a Negro Leaguer, and his two years in the Korean War. Charlie "Chino" Smith's career had gotten off to a rip roaring start, before I stopped. He was one of the guys, where I was like, "He got a FaceGen? Who is he?". Now, I definitely know who he is, thanks to the Spritze DB. Bullet Rogan showed up, in OOTP16, too. Just noticed I played this game with Neutered Stats. I only use Real Stats, 5 years, double weighted recalc, now.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by thehef

Great stuff ^^^! Thanks!

FWIW re PCL, my primary interest is in the 1903 to maybe 1970 period, with a sharper focus on the classic 1920's-to-1957 era. So if you have any thoughts on that - primarily if it would be better to use the Spritze db vs OOTP's (with the caveat that of course OOTP's doesn't currently start the PCL until 1921), I'd certainly be interested.

Thanks!

I can't really recommend using the Spritze DB as your primary DB. Not because I think it wouldn't be good, but because I haven't ever done so. I've only ever brought a few in here, and a few in there. But...I would imagine any guys that you're thinking of would be in there. Like I said, follow the link in my sig, and you'll be able to figure out, who's in, and who isn't, by checking out the Spritze18 DB master file. Up next, I'll dig around my OOTP21 game, and see who's in there that did really well.

[luckymann]

AJ, can I just get you to clarify what you mean here.

Grab the Spritze18 DB. It has the better master file, whereas 19 was the final edition. I always suggest that you grab both. 18 for the Master file, and 19 for the DB, itself.

Are you saying point the DB path to v19 and just use 18 as your reference guide? Or am I missing something?

And I'm presuming these work with later versions - 22 / 23 in particular?

Thanks

G

[actionjackson]

A guy who would've given Bench a run for his money in the greatest catcher of all-time department, made the HoF in my OOTP21 game. Josh Gibson's career numbers were stupid great. Here's his plaque. Different FaceGen for the career numbers, than the plaque because Lansdowne St. put out a really good one.

Leon Day also made the HoF in OOTP21. Here's his plaque, and career stats. Getting 300 wins is really tough with 1984 settings, and Strict Rotations. I've only ever had one guy do it. Steve Carlton won 331 in the OOTP16 game. Day's 234 wins is really, really good. That would tie him for 23rd all-time, if you combine the two different saves, which span 98 total seasons. Different FaceGens on the plaque, and the stats, thanks to Lansdowne St.'s wizardry.

With Spritzey magic, I was able to take Hiroki Kuroda back to age 22, rather than 33. Still going at 42, although, he's definitely coming unglued. Check out that age 40 season, though. Managed to somehow come second in the Cy Young voting. Lemme see who was first. Tim Keefe. Both had excellent seasons. I'd have given it to Kuroda, but it was really close. Had I been able to continue with this game, I'd have been hammering the vote button for Kuroda, for the HoF, until they told me I can't vote no mo'.

My basic rule around taking a player back, or not, is:

1) Did something impede him from starting his MLB career as soon as he could? The colour barrier, and the posting system definitely qualify for me.

However, if a guy comes in, in the Inaugural Draft, no dice, just like everybody else in there. Was really tested on that one when Jackie Robinson showed up in my Inaugural in OOTP21, but a rule's a rule. Happened to Minnie Minoso in OOTP16, as well. I would've done it for him, because he played in the Negro League before MLB, but the Inaugural Draft age thing has to apply to everybody, so whatcha gonna do? Also, if a guy showed up in an organization's minor league system, at a reasonably young age, I won't take him back. Basically, if an organization's minor league system was his first taste of pro ball, it's no dice. If Japanese League or NeL was first, then I'll do it. Can't remember who I've done that with before, but I'm sure there have been a few.

I'll poke around, and see if I have more OOTP21 guys to check out.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by luckymann

AJ, can I just get you to clarify what you mean here.

Grab the Spritze18 DB. It has the better master file, whereas 19 was the final edition. I always suggest that you grab both. 18 for the Master file, and 19 for the DB, itself.

Are you saying point the DB path to v19 and just use 18 as your reference guide? Or am I missing something?

And I'm presuming these work with later versions - 22 / 23 in particular?

Thanks

G

I haven't tested them in OOTP23, and I didn't have a game going in OOTP22. I was kind of hooked on my OOTP21 Random Debut, and OOTP22 sorta passed me by.

What I suggest doing, is extracting both databases into your stats folder, to "embed" them in there. That way, you don't overwrite the standard DB, and each patch doesn't overwrite your Spritze stuff. Use the SpritzeHSforOOTP18 master to look up the players you want to bring in, because it's far more detailed than the flimsy SpritzeHSforOOTP19 master, which is very bare bones stuff. As Spritze became more involved with Historical Database issues, his DB kind of got left behind. I'm pretty sure they are very similar, if not identical, but you want the 18 master, for sure.

There are basically, a couple of things you can do, once you've got them both in your stats folder. You can do like me, and bring in a couple of Spritze guys per draft, but stick to the standard DB. If you wanted to do that, you would go to the Free Agent page, click on "Actions", and select "Import Historical Player(s)", and point to the SpritzeHSforOOTP19 folder, which is in your stats folder, if you've extracted it properly. Inside the SpritzeHSforOOTP19 folder, you would select historical_database.odb, and go from there, as you would with any import.

The same basic thing applies if you are using it as your primary DB. The only difference is that when you are setting up your game in the Historical Game Setup Wizard, the database path you would select would be:

C:\Users\Admin\Documents\Out of the Park Developments\OOTP Baseball 23\stats\SpritzeHSforOOTP19

Select historical_database.odb in that Database path, and Spritze will be your default database. Once your new game has started up, be sure to check Game Settings > League Settings > Historical > Historical Rookies Settings > Database Path:

to make sure that your Database Path is still the one outlined above. The SpritzeHSforOOTP18 folder is simply so that you have access to better info in your master.csv file. You'll see what I mean if you compare the two master files. There's no comparison, really. The 18 one is the one you need.

I haven't tested the Spritze DB on OOTP23, but I'm pretty sure it'll work, as I don't see much different from OOTP21 to OOTP23, in the DB. The rubber's really gonna meet the road when they merge the historical DB with the DB they use for the Standard Game in OOTP24.

Lukas tells me that they're working on that now. That could introduce a lot of bugs, even for someone playing a normal historical game. However, it could be terrific for historical games in the long run.

The information for each player will be far more detailed, and has the potential to create a better starting point for every player in the historical DB. I think all of this has all come about as a result of Perfect Team, and it's an opportunity to finally give the historical side of the game the attention it's needed for quite a while now. I think Historical's about to get a whole lot better for us. The only downside for me, is that I don't know how I'll be able to keep Spritze' legacy going beyond OOTP23, but I'll try to.

If you want to know the level of detail we're talking about, go to:

C:\Users\Admin\Documents\Out of the Park Developments\OOTP Baseball 23\database

and click on players.csv to open the master file for a Standard Game. Now, picture that level of detail in a Historical Game.

If what I've said about OOTP24 is making your eyes glaze over, disregard it, and focus on the OOTP23 stuff. It's probably too much, and should've been a separate post. The main takeaway, is that once the bugs get worked out, Historical games are going to get a lot better, starting in OOTP24.

[actionjackson]

Cool Papa Bell showed up in the OOTP21 game. Spectacular defender. Was able to take Joe Black back to age 18, rather than 28, as he was when he started with Brooklyn, in 1952. Not a HoFer, but a damn fine career nonetheless.

John Beckwith made an appearance. Managed to lead his league in HR five times, but his bat was still somewhat average (99 wRC+). His defense at 3B was absolutely stellar. So, big time power, and an excellent defender, but not enough of anything else to push him over the HoF line.

Lesser known Negro Leaguer Edward Steele (Ed Steele on BB-Ref) showed up, too. On base machine, with 5 All-Star Games before quitting time. One thing I find with Spritze hitters, is that it feels like some of them draw way too many walks.

I can't for the life of me figure out how Grant Johnson was unable to win a Gold Glove at SS. He had a career +156.5 ZR at SS, in around 2,000 games. Obviously, his teams thought he was great, or that anemic bat wouldn't have found it's way into the lineup as often as it did. Had pop at the plate, but not much else.

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

I haven't tested them in OOTP23, and I didn't have a game going in OOTP22. I was kind of hooked on my OOTP21 Random Debut, and OOTP22 sorta passed me by.

What I suggest doing, is extracting both databases into your stats folder, to "embed" them in there. That way, you don't overwrite the standard DB, and each patch doesn't overwrite your Spritze stuff. Use the SpritzeHSforOOTP18 master to look up the players you want to bring in, because it's far more detailed than the flimsy SpritzeHSforOOTP19 master, which is very bare bones stuff. As Spritze became more involved with Historical Database issues, his DB kind of got left behind. I'm pretty sure they are very similar, if not identical, but you want the 18 master, for sure.

There are basically, a couple of things you can do, once you've got them both in your stats folder. You can do like me, and bring in a couple of Spritze guys per draft, but stick to the standard DB. If you wanted to do that, you would go to the Free Agent page, click on "Actions", and select "Import Historical Player(s)", and point to the SpritzeHSforOOTP19 folder, which is in your stats folder, if you've extracted it properly. Inside the SpritzeHSforOOTP19 folder, you would select historical_database.odb, and go from there, as you would with any import.

The same basic thing applies if you are using it as your primary DB. The only difference is that when you are setting up your game in the Historical Game Setup Wizard, the database path you would select would be:

C:\Users\Admin\Documents\Out of the Park Developments\OOTP Baseball 23\stats\SpritzeHSforOOTP19

Select historical_database.odb in that Database path, and Spritze will be your default database. Once your new game has started up, be sure to check Game Settings > League Settings > Historical > Historical Rookies Settings > Database Path:

to make sure that your Database Path is still the one outlined above. The SpritzeHSforOOTP18 folder is simply so that you have access to better info in your master.csv file. You'll see what I mean if you compare the two master files. There's no comparison, really. The 18 one is the one you need.

I haven't tested the Spritze DB on OOTP23, but I'm pretty sure it'll work, as I don't see much different from OOTP21 to OOTP23, in the DB. The rubber's really gonna meet the road when they merge the historical DB with the DB they use for the Standard Game in OOTP24.

Lukas tells me that they're working on that now. That could introduce a lot of bugs, even for someone playing a normal historical game. However, it could be terrific for historical games in the long run.

The information for each player will be far more detailed, and has the potential to create a better starting point for every player in the historical DB. I think all of this has all come about as a result of Perfect Team, and it's an opportunity to finally give the historical side of the game the attention it's needed for quite a while now. I think Historical's about to get a whole lot better for us. The only downside for me, is that I don't know how I'll be able to keep Spritze' legacy going beyond OOTP23, but I'll try to.

If you want to know the level of detail we're talking about, go to:

C:\Users\Admin\Documents\Out of the Park Developments\OOTP Baseball 23\database

and click on players.csv to open the master file for a Standard Game. Now, picture that level of detail in a Historical Game.

If what I've said about OOTP24 is making your eyes glaze over, disregard it, and focus on the OOTP23 stuff. It's probably too much, and should've been a separate post. The main takeaway, is that once the bugs get worked out, Historical games are going to get a lot better, starting in OOTP24.

Great thanks.

I do almost all of my importing manually which works fine for me despite the added workload, although it does cause some issues that need to be dealt with before proceeding - mainly to do with service time etc. Still, I'm using the historical DB not his, although I have used the 18 csv to form part of my own player pool spreadsheets for the importation process. At some stage I want to try just basing a small save on Spritze's DB alone and see where it leads me.

I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with re the new DB - bugs are tolerable to me as long as they don't destroy saves in the meantime and result in commensurate gain for the pain.

Appreciate the time taken here bud, great work and many thanks.

G

[actionjackson]

Finally found Burnis Wright in OOTP21. Known as Wild Bill Wright over at BB-Ref, he had a very decent career in my game, with three All-Star nods.

Another lesser known Negro Leaguer is Alonzo Perry. He picked up 2,099 hits, and 249 HR, and played in two All-Star Games.

Pedro Pages made his way into my game as well. Hadn't heard of him before. Another thing I'm noticing about these Spritze guys, is that they're really good defensively. Lots of plate discipline, and great defense. Some of them have a ton of power, too.

Finally! A Japanese Leaguer that did well in one of my leagues. Ryohei Hasegawa pitched in the 1950s, and early 1960s for the Hiroshima Carp, of the Japan Central League IRL. Went to two All-Star Games, was ROY in 1903, picked up a Silver Slugger at P, and earned a couple of rings, with the 1904 Brooklyn Superbas, and the 1911 Cincinnati Reds.

As you can see, these players can add some flavour to your leagues. I don't know if I've explained the procedure for getting them into your game well enough though, so go ahead, and ask questions, if it's confusing.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by luckymann

Great thanks.

I do almost all of my importing manually which works fine for me despite the added workload, although it does cause some issues that need to be dealt with before proceeding - mainly to do with service time etc. Still, I'm using the historical DB not his, although I have used the 18 csv to form part of my own player pool spreadsheets for the importation process. At some stage I want to try just basing a small save on Spritze's DB alone and see where it leads me.

I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with re the new DB - bugs are tolerable to me as long as they don't destroy saves in the meantime and result in commensurate gain for the pain.

Appreciate the time taken here bud, great work and many thanks.

G

I hope it wasn't too confusing for you, or anyone else in here. I sometimes get a bit ahead of myself with explaining complicated things like DBs. There's way more to this game, than what appears on the surface. The surface is complicated enough. I've really enjoyed adding these guys in over the years. The old what if thing has a great deal to do with why we play this type of game.

I'm really looking forward to the new DB, too. It may lead to the demise of the Spritze DB, unless I can figure out a way around it. Bit of a price to pay for me, as I want to be able to preserve his work, but I think the upside of what historical could look like in two or three versions (say OOTP26 or 27), could be huge, and is worth it. Of course, I hope they can make it work for 24, but it's going to be a real challenge. I think Perfect Team was the spark for this change. Let's face it, Perfect Team is just a gigantic online Random Debut Historical game. That may have been the spark, but in the end, I think it's going to benefit the Historical side of things for all of us Historical geeks.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by thehef

I was wondering about this. Thanks!

Questions re the PCL guys... What players are included? Basically all of them since the early 1900's thru 2015? Or mostly the notable ones? And for guys who spent significant time in the PCL but also played in other minor leagues, is their full MiLB record included, or just their PCL years?

And re "life long minor leaguers" ... does this mean notable guys who never made The Show, and excludes long-time minor-leaguers who had a cup of coffee in the bigs, or?

An example of both would be Buzz Arlett. I would assume he'd be included as a PCL player since he was a significant one over several years, but he also spent time in the Int'l League, American Assoc, and Southern Lg. Are his IL, AA, and SL years included? In addition, he would be included as an MLBer due to his single season (1931) in the bigs, but would he also be included - minor league stats, that is - as a life-long minor-leaguer, even though technically he wasn't a minor-league-only player? (Arlett is an obvious example, but there are lesser-known guys who share similar scenarios.)

Thanks in advance!

Arlett would fit into the MLB category i.e. he'd have his MLB Lahman ID, but Spritze probably cooked up some MLB Equivalencies for him, to take him back to a younger age.

In the master.csv file, it will indicate in the School column whether a player is a Negro Leaguer, or a PCLer, or a NPBer etc. This is done for some, but not all players, for some reason. Not sure why.