La Russa creates, then downplays, clubhouse rift

[Déjà Bru]

The title of the article is Chicago White Sox manager Tony La Russa says respect for baseball is priority

The background is, "La Russa called [rookie slugger Yermin] Mercedes 'clueless' for homering on a 47 mph pitch with a 3-0 count from Minnesota Twins infielder Willians Astudillo in the ninth inning of a 16-4 blowout win Monday."

My opinion is, La Russa is clueless in three ways:
1) For publicly insulting one of his players.
2) For attempting to dismiss the indiscretion as if what Mercedes thinks does not matter.
3) For distorting a courtesy into a stupid rule. So, you take the next pitch on a 3-0 count when you are up by how many runs?

Maybe you don't steal a base or take an extra base; maybe you don't pinch hit or pinch run for somebody; maybe you don't bring in your top closer when you are clobbering somebody 16-4.

But you don't just stand there at the plate, afraid to swing because you might connect for an extra-base hit or home run. And you don't belittle your own player, in private but especially in public, because your name is Mr. 'Big Damn Deal' Tony La Russa.

I'm old, but I am working on the wisdom to show that some things from the past are true and valuable, as well as learning some new things that are also true and valuable, all the while avoiding becoming a pompous windbag like La Russa who thinks he has all the answers and has the right to open his big fat trap at will. Hopefully, I am succeeding.

[Déjà Bru]

And yes, before any wag can say it, I just opened my own big fat trap at will. The distinction is that I try to do so when it's constructive, or I am compelled to do so when irritated by people who deserve a smack in the mouth.

[rudel.dietrich]

He looks 140 years old in that photo

[BMW]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

He looks 140 years old in that photo

George Romero's Clubhouse of the Dead

[mytreds]

Yeah I thought his criticism of his player for hitting on 3-0 came out of left field too. Really weird.

[Westheim]

Didn't I read somewhere that La Russa gave Mercedes the take sign, and he swung anyway? At the end of the day, it's still the manager who has to have the say in things, not the rookie wannabe slugger.

Yes, I'm also old, almost half-of-70.

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

He looks 140 years old in that photo

He looks like Constable Odo, hungover and failing to get in his usual shape.

[mitchkenn]

surely those unwritten rules of baseball are written down somewhere ...
if not, maybe we need send a note to La Russa so he can compile them and post them on the dugout walls.
to be slightly fair - i think he was more ticked off that the player didn't follow the take sign. i recall reading about an incident in the Negro Leagues, where Rube Foster benched a player for hitting a home run when he was given a take sign, but can't recall any more of the details. La Russa isn't close to being a Rube Foster in my mind...

[RchW]

If unwritten rules are so important why don't they write them down, post them on the locker room wall, give everybody a copy and have them sign off on it. Seems like leadership and good business practices are somewhat lacking here.

[RchW]

Are we great minds or fools Mitchkenn?

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

My opinion is, La Russa is clueless in three ways:
1) For publicly insulting one of his players.
2) For attempting to dismiss the indiscretion as if what Mercedes thinks does not matter.
3) For distorting a courtesy into a stupid rule. So, you take the next pitch on a 3-0 count when you are up by how many runs?

1. I agree that LaRussa mishandled the press conference. He just should have said "I'll be talking with Yermin about this later." The only reason why he made a big deal about dressing down Mercedes was, I think, to send a message to the Twins that he was trying to handle the matter himself. If that was the case, he was actually trying to save his player from retaliation (which didn't work anyway, but hey, that's baseball).

2. Well, if Mercedes missed a take sign, then what Mercedes thinks doesn't matter. A player gets a sign. It's not optional. It doesn't matter whether he agrees with it or not. In the good ol' days, a manager would fine a player who swung through a take sign, regardless of the outcome.

3. Again, it's the manager's call. If LaRussa wanted to pile on against a position player who was pitching in garbage time, he would have given Mercedes the green light to swing on 3-0. He says he didn't. Talk about unwritten rules all you want, but in the end it's the manager's call.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

1. I agree that LaRussa mishandled the press conference. He just should have said "I'll be talking with Yermin about this later." The only reason why he made a big deal about dressing down Mercedes was, I think, to send a message to the Twins that he was trying to handle the matter himself. If that was the case, he was actually trying to save his player from retaliation (which didn't work anyway, but hey, that's baseball).

2. Well, if Mercedes missed a take sign, then what Mercedes thinks doesn't matter. A player gets a sign. It's not optional. It doesn't matter whether he agrees with it or not. In the good ol' days, a manager would fine a player who swung through a take sign, regardless of the outcome.

3. Again, it's the manager's call. If LaRussa wanted to pile on against a position player who was pitching in garbage time, he would have given Mercedes the green light to swing on 3-0. He says he didn't. Talk about unwritten rules all you want, but in the end it's the manager's call.

I don't disagree with your points but is LaRussa going to publicly call out every player who misses a sign? I understand this may be a special case but it sets up a situation where some players may have a different consequence for breaking the same/similar rules. That's not good for team unity.

[Hrycaj]

La Russa says respect for baseball is a priority as he flashes his Hall of Fame ring in an attempt to avoid a drunk driving offense. I'll take the career minor leaguer swinging 3-0 trying to keep a job please.

[Zorian77]

Originally Posted by Hrycaj

La Russa says respect for baseball is a priority as he flashes his Hall of Fame ring in an attempt to avoid a drunk driving offense. I'll take the career minor leaguer swinging 3-0 trying to keep a job please.

On a 47 mph meatball straight down the middle of the plate. Honestly baseball is weird in how it sometimes demands players give the manager military like obedience. Most successful militaries give their officers a lot of leeway to countermand orders from higher command when the situation on the ground has changed and the orders no longer make sense, or an opportunity has presented itself.

La Russa is insufferable. I hope the team openly revolts.

[Leo_The_Lip]

I watched the Dan Patrick Show yesterday, and he called Johnny Bench to ask his opinion (Bench being an amusing and intelligent commentator, I've found). One of his comments was, "If Mercedes had taken the pitch for a strike, and then knocked the next one out of the park, is that somehow better?"

He also said he would never have swung if Sparky Anderson had given him the take sign because he knew it would cost $100 to swing--and that was real money back then.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by RchW

I don't disagree with your points but is LaRussa going to publicly call out every player who misses a sign? I understand this may be a special case but it sets up a situation where some players may have a different consequence for breaking the same/similar rules. That's not good for team unity.

Is it good for team unity when some players are openly defying the manager? Suppose that, instead of LaRussa giving that terrible news conference after the game, some reporter interviewed Mercedes and he said: "Yeah, I got the take sign, but that's a joke! I know better than the manager. I get a pitch that I can hit out of the park and he wants me to take that [stuff]? No way! If I get a pitch to hit, I'm swinging away. [To heck with] the signs!"

If Mercedes gave that interview, I'd bet most of you would be on the board defending LaRussa and criticizing Mercedes. But isn't that what he did? Assuming that LaRussa gave Mercedes the take sign, then either he saw and ignored the sign, or else he didn't see the sign at all. Neither makes him look good. Either you have a player who's defying the manager's signs, or else you have a player who's not smart enough or engaged enough in the game to pay attention to signs. And having a player like that is not good for team unity.

[Hrycaj]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Is it good for team unity when some players are openly defying the manager? Suppose that, instead of LaRussa giving that terrible news conference after the game, some reporter interviewed Mercedes and he said: "Yeah, I got the take sign, but that's a joke! I know better than the manager. I get a pitch that I can hit out of the park and he wants me to take that [stuff]? No way! If I get a pitch to hit, I'm swinging away. [To heck with] the signs!"

If Mercedes gave that interview, I'd bet most of you would be on the board defending LaRussa and criticizing Mercedes. But isn't that what he did? Assuming that LaRussa gave Mercedes the take sign, then either he saw and ignored the sign, or else he didn't see the sign at all. Neither makes him look good. Either you have a player who's defying the manager's signs, or else you have a player who's not smart enough or engaged enough in the game to pay attention to signs. And having a player like that is not good for team unity.

I for one wouldn't defend LaRussa because I think he is a fraud. In the scenario you created though, I would think that if a player gave such an interview that the manager clearly didn't have control of his locker room. I like what leo the lip shared from what Johnny Bench said about players being fined if they ignored a sign. So clearly players have been ignoring managers for a long enough time to instill these kangaroo court type fines. Which I am alright with. If Mercedes did in fact ignore the sign or verbal cue from the coach then sure, fine him privately. He didn't need to publicly admonish him. I also don't care for the whole unwritten rule thing. How does Minnesota escape scrutiny here while we are at it? They chose to "save" arms and put in a sacrificial lamb correct? Isn't that decision disrespectful to the game? Minnesota decided to tap out in the game but they expected Chicago to just go through the motions? Do the fans get part of their money back because apparently the "game" ended and they were just watching a theater production?

[Izz]

Here's Jomboy's take, with footage from the press conference included: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjz2UKPdFCU

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by Hrycaj

I for one wouldn't defend LaRussa because I think he is a fraud.

Yeah, I kinda' get that. But you're creating a "heads I win, tails you lose" situation here. If LaRussa gives the take sign, then he's bad because the unwritten rules are BS. And if Mercedes swings anyway, LaRussa's bad because he obviously has no control over his players. I guess the only thing LaRussa could've done right is tell Mercedes to swing away. Then, when Mercedes gets plunked in the ribs in his first at-bat the next day, LaRussa can complain all he wants about the unwritten rules and how they're all BS.

I'm not sure why LaRussa's personality or reputation plays any part in this story. FWIW, I happen to respect the hell out of him as a manager. He might not be the kind of guy I'd want to sit down and have a beer with (and I wouldn't want him behind the wheel on the drive home), but his record as one of the greatest managers in MLB history speaks for itself. Would you feel differently if it hadn't been LaRussa and instead was a manager that you liked and/or respected?

[Splitter24]

I've never heard of or seen a manager giving signs in the last inning of a double digit blowout. And he certainly wasn't looking down to the 3rd base coach between pitches. If there was a take sign being given (and I'm skeptical that there was), it was up to the 3rd base coach to make sure that he got the batter's attention and his acknowledgement.

[Hrycaj]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Yeah, I kinda' get that. But you're creating a "heads I win, tails you lose" situation here. If LaRussa gives the take sign, then he's bad because the unwritten rules are BS. And if Mercedes swings anyway, LaRussa's bad because he obviously has no control over his players. I guess the only thing LaRussa could've done right is tell Mercedes to swing away. Then, when Mercedes gets plunked in the ribs in his first at-bat the next day, LaRussa can complain all he wants about the unwritten rules and how they're all BS.

I'm not sure why LaRussa's personality or reputation plays any part in this story. FWIW, I happen to respect the hell out of him as a manager. He might not be the kind of guy I'd want to sit down and have a beer with (and I wouldn't want him behind the wheel on the drive home), but his record as one of the greatest managers in MLB history speaks for itself. Would you feel differently if it hadn't been LaRussa and instead was a manager that you liked and/or respected?

That's fair. I really respect Leyland and he is a LaRussa protege that generally followed the same philosophy. I like to believe I would because I feel like the whole situation was disgraceful for baseball. Position players should not be pitching. When you put one in you are kinda opening the door to chaos, which is what happened. Also, if I was a player on the Sox and Mercedes hits that bomb and showboats like he kinda did I would think all of us in the dugout are ribbing him hard for pimping a homer off a 47 mph 3-0 pitch. Probably be charged with a high offence in clubhouse court.