AI reliever usage (exhausted pens)

[Isryion]

I usually have a historical league going (started in 2006 this time around) along with my online leagues, and I've noted, especially in 21, that the AI is horrible with reliever usage (and of course it's worse with bad teams) in that they often come into a series with me exhausted.

I tend to play out every game but I often win a ton of them just because the AI has exhausted relievers and I manage my bullpen better. I've won a bunch of games with 15 or more runs and it creates less interesting games, inflated stats, etc...for my team. Anyway, I guess I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed this issue and what settings they've tweaked.

Right now, I'm considering going with a 26 man roster (limiting myself to 25) and then seeing if I can tweak the AI roster balance. I'm not sure that will be enough, honestly. I don't want to adjust fatigue because I think that will make it easier for me as well, though it might be an option.

[Dave Stieb II]

Oh yah. This is one of my biggest pet peeves with the game.
Such a great game overall, but my immersion is almost ruined by things like this. And there are a few too many of these sorts of things that have never been corrected.
I know nothing about programming, so I assume it can't be fixed. But this problem seems even worse in OOTP21 even with 8 relievers in every BP.
What I don't understand is this: The AI has no problem moving players up and down and all around at it's minor league levels on a daily basis. So why can't it be programmed to identify a completely shot BP and make a few changes.
Things unfold exactly as you describe, starting with the first game of a series against (usually) a poor team, and they run out a string of relievers with 3-16% left in the tank. Usually, we pound their BP into oblivion, inflating our stats, but occasionally we get shut down while my fresh relievers (who are better to begin with both IRL and OOTP ratings) poop the bed. I don't know which is more frustrating and unenjoyable.
Bottom line: It's never a bad idea to try and 'tweak' things to bring a little more realism to the game but I wouldn't hold my breath hoping a roster adjustment to 26 players, etc. will help

[Dave Stieb II]

And, I might add, our inflated stats certainly come back to haunt us when we face even a semi-decent pitching staff. It is so predictable - no it is TOO predictable.
The AI needs to regress those stats to the norm, so we end up getting completely shut down by a reasonably good staff in an ensuing series.
Can and does it happen IRL?
Of course.
The problem is - like a few too many things, I can see it coming before the series even starts. It is oh, so obvious, what will unfold. Immersion damaged....again.

[pfholden]

I haven't run into this but I also don't play historical very often.
These are suggestions you may have tried, but have you gone under league settings > stats & AI? On the left hand column there's a drop down menu for pitcher stamina as well as the hook for SP and RP. Maybe something between those is out of whack for historical? And on the right hand side, you can adjust SP and RP stamina as well.

[Isryion]

Originally Posted by pfholden

I haven't run into this but I also don't play historical very often.
These are suggestions you may have tried, but have you gone under league settings > stats & AI? On the left hand column there's a drop down menu for pitcher stamina as well as the hook for SP and RP. Maybe something between those is out of whack for historical? And on the right hand side, you can adjust SP and RP stamina as well.

I'll take a look at some of those items as well.

@Dave Stieb II, I'm glad I'm not the only one that noted it and I would guess it is absolutely programmable in some fashion. But you've hit on exactly my issues with it as well.

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by pfholden

I haven't run into this but I also don't play historical very often.
These are suggestions you may have tried, but have you gone under league settings > stats & AI? On the left hand column there's a drop down menu for pitcher stamina as well as the hook for SP and RP. Maybe something between those is out of whack for historical? And on the right hand side, you can adjust SP and RP stamina as well.

I am playing a Standard Game (i.e. 2020 start up) with the out of the box Stats and AI settings and play all the games out pitch by pitch. I've been doing it this way for 4 years. It is not related to historical in my case.
This has been an obvious problem in every new standard game I've started over the past 4 years - and I've started a lot - so I'm shocked every time I read someone who plays the games out 'has not experienced this.'
I had hoped with the increase to 26-man rosters and settings for 8-man BP's this year, the problem might be resolved at least to some degree.
But that is not the case and the results - and implications - are as I described earlier.

[jimmysthebestcop]

I only play Opening Day each version and yup the AI can't the bullpen on the default settings. I use to carry 13 pitchers and now since its 26 men I carry 14. Because I sim all my games so at least my bullpen is fine.

But like you said the AI bullpen is often wrecked depending on their schedule. 1st thing is you must turn off rain delays. In modern MLB setup it wrecks the AI. Every doubleheader and your bullpen will be 0%.

I haven't played my save in a month but I think I had to increase stamina or change fatigue or both.I forget exactly but the settings have to be altered for modern mlb unless you want to nerf the AI.

I recall the downside is the starters also get this stamina/fatigue bump even if its minor on the Starters. Sometimes its necessary to be slightly unrealistic if you want the opposing team's AI to perform better.

So depends on what you are after. The most realistic statistcal output at the end of the year for your entire MLB league in OOTPb or an AI opponent that is slightly better at managing its bullpen.

[Dave Stieb II]

Thanks for your suggestion.
If I KNEW what to exactly adjust the Stats and AI settings to, to improve the realism in a Standard Game 2020 season start up, I certainly would give it a try.
But this is where I have another problem with OOTP:
I shouldn't have to do that. Period. Full stop. -30-
The original 'out of the box' settings should have been tested in both sim and 'play every game out' pitch by pitch scenarios to create the most realistic possible modern day results.
And the AI should be programmed to promote and demote relievers to/from the major league roster as required.
OOTPb is wonderful in so many ways, including the fact that it allows you to adjust settings in so many different areas of the game and at so many levels in so many different ways.
But when it comes to the Stats and AI page, the original settings should be optimal. Otherwise, you can spend multiple start ups tinkering with the settings and never land on something that works. In fact, you risk straying further and further from what will produce optimal modern day results.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by Dave Stieb II

Thanks for your suggestion.
If I KNEW what to exactly adjust the Stats and AI settings to, to improve the realism in a Standard Game 2020 season start up, I certainly would give it a try.
But this is where I have another problem with OOTP:
I shouldn't have to do that. Period. Full stop. -30-
The original 'out of the box' settings should have been tested in both sim and 'play every game out' pitch by pitch scenarios to create the most realistic possible modern day results.
And the AI should be programmed to promote and demote relievers to/from the major league roster as required.
OOTPb is wonderful in so many ways, including the fact that it allows you to adjust settings in so many different areas of the game and at so many levels in so many different ways.
But when it comes to the Stats and AI page, the original settings should be optimal. Otherwise, you can spend multiple start ups tinkering with the settings and never land on something that works. In fact, you risk straying further and further from what will produce optimal modern day results.

See its weird that is what OOTP does if you look at all the stats end of year they are pretty dang close to real life MLB data.

It's just if you look at it on a game by game basis things get funky cause your a human. AI vs AI its level playing field. But a human controlling the bullpen either simming or especially if they play out their games its advantage.

Its not every series depends on how packed the other teams schedule is.

[Rain King]

Yeah, my solution has always been to give teams more roster spots for an extra reliever or 2. Makes a big difference.

I also play a lot of fictional leagues where teams get more off-days than typical MLB teams, which helps a bunch with the AI bullpen management as well.

[alexdeangelis914]

Haven't run into this, but interesting

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

See its weird that is what OOTP does if you look at all the stats end of year they are pretty dang close to real life MLB data.

It's just if you look at it on a game by game basis things get funky cause your a human. AI vs AI its level playing field. But a human controlling the bullpen either simming or especially if they play out their games its advantage.

Its not every series depends on how packed the other teams schedule is.

But see, how we arrive at those end of season stats is a big part of the annoyance for me.


For example, my team is Toronto. So we get hyper-inflated offensive stats vs. teams like Baltimore (2020 version) and I mean WAY beyond the norm or reality. Then we struggle to muster together 6 singles vs. Seattle (??????) as the AI 'regresses to the norm."
Seattle. The Mariners. Their 2020 pitching staff.
And I might as well forfeit our 19 games vs.Tampa Bay.
Are they better than us in 2020? Of course.
(despite vastly improving our club)
Should they win the season series vs. us in 2020? Absolutely.
But at least a few of the games should be close. They are a divisional opponent and they do not have a 'Murderer's Row' offence.
They are not. I might as well forfeit each series with them while the AI makes its adjustments to bring individual stats in line with something resembling reality.
It is predictable.
It is thoroughly unenjoyable.
And THAT, to me, is the biggest repercussion of all these exhausted BP's and 17-run outings vs. the Baltimore's of the world.

[r0nster]

you can change AI settings and make starters go longer or shorter same for relievers as such its in the global settings if I recall

[Mat]

I find it is the doubleheaders that cause the biggest issues so disabling rainouts helps a lot with this.

Also, 8 man bullpens.