For the love of God....fix 3D PbP

[jg2977]

Looking forward to the day when I actually hit a home run in the right field upper deck in 1988 Yankee Stadium, which happened many times in real life.

[too_on_too_out]

Originally Posted by jg2977

Looking forward to the day when I actually hit a home run in the right field upper deck in 1988 Yankee Stadium, which happened many times in real life.

Can't you do that in The Show?

[jg2977]

Originally Posted by too_on_too_out

Can't you do that in The Show?

Probably. but I'd like to be able to do that in OOTP because I don't have The
Show

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Interesting failure. Because in the old DOS game Old Time Baseball they didn't know. I once had a game where everyone ran thinking Kaline hit a HR and it turned into a triple play.

I would be happy with Earl Weaver Baseball type animations.

[dward1]

the "offline", non-PT part of the game simply gets no thought or development any more. the developers may work hard on PT, I don't know as I don't play. but I know they are incredibly lazy when it comes to the core GM game, and put next to zero effort into thinking about it or improving it, only reacting to massive bugs and throwing in poorly thought out features so they can act like it's a new game. I've stopped buying as even though I love the game, I felt like I was being ripped off paying more and more each version when so little effort is put into improvements

[CBeisbol]

This thread is an example of why I, personally, would prefer to see more resources going into the AI than into the 3D

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...01#post4656201

Trades like this (from Miami's perspective) shouldn't happen and are worse for the game than some wonky animations (which can be turned completely off)

[HuachucaThunder]

I have tried to play with 3D a couple of times with the new version. It is simply pathetic. I am sorry to say that it seems they are pouring their time and effort into the Perfect Team aspect and not really focusing on improving the main game.

[swoboda]

I buy the game every year to support its continuing improvement, because that requires money.
I play em all out in one of my annual leagues so I have a large sample size of 3D anims. Overall I would have to agree with the critique of 3D animation in this thread. In fact I could add a couple of frustrations of my own.

But I still see the 3D anims as a major step up from the OOTP pre 3D anims era. I get a better feeling of "at the ballpark" in spite of the shortcomings. The combo of good ballpark graphics, background ballpark sound rumbling along and the 3D anims even in their current flawed state provide a markedly improved immersion experience for watching games as you play them, as compared with a few yrs ago.

For next year I would certainly be happier with 100% focus on improving current OOTP as is, with zero new features, than I will be with marginal improvement and a bunch of new features.

[too_on_too_out]

Originally Posted by swoboda

I buy the game every year to support its continuing improvement, because that requires money.
I play em all out in one of my annual leagues so I have a large sample size of 3D anims. Overall I would have to agree with the critique of 3D animation in this thread. In fact I could add a couple of frustrations of my own.

But I still see the 3D anims as a major step up from the OOTP pre 3D anims era. I get a better feeling of "at the ballpark" in spite of the shortcomings. The combo of good ballpark graphics, background ballpark sound rumbling along and the 3D anims even in their current flawed state provide a markedly improved immersion experience for watching games as you play them, as compared with a few yrs ago.

For next year I would certainly be happier with 100% focus on improving current OOTP as is, with zero new features, than I will be with marginal improvement and a bunch of new features.

Ok, but what about walk-up buyers in their first year? They don't have the same frame of reference as you. And they see is something... odd: a game in the 21st year of production with a newish extension that plays like it's still a few years from beta release. That sends a very different message than 'improved over the years.'


@jg2977
Feel for ya bro. Sometimes blogging about it can help. Well, it just gets it off your chest if nothing else.

[swoboda]

Originally Posted by too_on_too_out

Ok, but what about walk-up buyers in their first year? They don't have the same frame of reference as you. And they see is something... odd: a game in the 21st year of production with a newish extension that plays like it's still a few years from beta release. That sends a very different message than 'improved over the years.'


@jg2977
Feel for ya bro. Sometimes blogging about it can help. Well, it just gets it off your chest if nothing else.

Fair enough. Long time players know the games roots were in a text based mode, heavy on stats and GM decisions, less heavy on live action. New players looking mostly for live action would not know that history and could be disappointed

[Toast]

Originally Posted by dward1

the "offline", non-PT part of the game simply gets no thought or development any more. the developers may work hard on PT, I don't know as I don't play. but I know they are incredibly lazy when it comes to the core GM game, and put next to zero effort into thinking about it or improving it, only reacting to massive bugs and throwing in poorly thought out features so they can act like it's a new game. I've stopped buying as even though I love the game, I felt like I was being ripped off paying more and more each version when so little effort is put into improvements

Agree ... to often prior to release we hear how the developers have improved this and that or in game strategy and line-up management etc. only to see the same old. Aside from graphics and PT I don't think the sim has moved much over quite a few editions. When the developer points to 'now you can make your own stadium' versus something else that could be more important to the the sim itself it may be that it has reached it's ceiling ... hence PT. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[eldur00]

Originally Posted by dward1

the "offline", non-PT part of the game simply gets no thought or development any more. the developers may work hard on PT, I don't know as I don't play. but I know they are incredibly lazy when it comes to the core GM game, and put next to zero effort into thinking about it or improving it, only reacting to massive bugs and throwing in poorly thought out features so they can act like it's a new game. I've stopped buying as even though I love the game, I felt like I was being ripped off paying more and more each version when so little effort is put into improvements

I don't know that it's laziness as much as it is that they might have maxed out potential on the current engine. Hence why I suggested it might be time to get another engine revamp like the one they did right before I became a player (6.5 I believe ?).
I think the game is great. It's not where my issue is. It's just it's been the same brand of great for 4 editions now. I'm content with staying put with this version at this point.

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by HuachucaThunder

I have tried to play with 3D a couple of times with the new version. It is simply pathetic. I am sorry to say that it seems they are pouring their time and effort into the Perfect Team aspect and not really focusing on improving the main game.

PT brings them a lot of money, and money talks unfortunately and it reflects on where they are spending their time.

[pstrickert]

But how can that be, Buster? OOTP21 boasts the most new features ever. It says so in the promo:

"We are proud to announce that Out of the Park Baseball 21 is officially available worldwide. The 21st version of the award-winning sports strategy franchise delivers the most new features and improvements in series history."

[ablobj]

It seems that a couple of recurring themes always pop up in these threads:

1: They make a TON of money from Perfect Team.

Maybe they do, maybe they don't, but I have no idea how the average OOTP user would know how much money the company is "raking in" from PT.

2. The money they make from PT is supposed to be put towards improving the "main game."

Did anyone from OOTP actually say this? Again, maybe they did and I just never saw it.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by ablobj

It seems that a couple of recurring themes always pop up in these threads:

1: They make a TON of money from Perfect Team.

Maybe they do, maybe they don't, but I have no idea how the average OOTP user would know how much money the company is "raking in" from PT.

2. The money they make from PT is supposed to be put towards improving the "main game."

Did anyone from OOTP actually say this? Again, maybe they did and I just never saw it.

Its probably more money then OOTPb usually had. But its not like the amount of copies of the game skyrocketed or anything. It is still a very very small Indy title.

I mean it only gets about 1700 daily steam users. No way to know how many stand alone copies there but I'm guessing it isn't "tons". Motorsport Manager 4 years old and still gets 1300 daily steam users. Football Manager we are talking like 100k!!!!!! Just to give some comparisons.

So even if PT is bringing in extra money its not bringing in those kinds of numbers because OOTPb isn't a popular title. If it was popular then there be content creators covering OOTPb on Youtube and Twitch and Mixer. Go search you can't find anything. Stuff with a couple hundred or couple thousand views thats it. Even small Indy titles can get hundreds of thousands of views on multiple vids from multiple creators.

The official ootp channel only gets a couple hundred views per video. SO PT might have people buying packs which increases profit I would guess but its not like selling a million copies of a game.

The PT money will come from 20% of the PT users. That is how pay to play games all work. There are always 20% whales vs the majority. Before Covid the same was true with Netflix around 70% of its paid users haven't used it in months.

The only way PT would be a huge success is if it can go mobile. Most of all the pay to play, daily fantasy gamblers all play those things on mobile and not the PC. PT is really for an entire different fan base. I played it all last year and it was entertaining and I enjoyed it. But I now I have no interest in ever doing it again. Its not a real "video game" its an extension of fantasy gambling/competition.

Even its current iteration of OOTPb 21 I don't see it appealing to gamers. It appeals to baseball fans, stat results driven crowd and people that like to create their own worlds.

This is probably the last thread I'll be following on here. Then I'll check back around Xmas see if anything is changing for the better.

But I've sworn off OOTP. Its a non purchase from now on, unless a new revolutionary leap happens which is highly unlikely. I've moved my sports sim to Football Manager. It is just about a million times better "gaming experience".

Yes they are much bigger, sell more copies, have sega as a producers, larger staff but that is also a weak excuse. My top 5 game of the last several years is Star Traders Frontiers and it was made by 2 brothers. Easily competing with the big boys. RPS (rock paper shotgun) even declared it a top 50 game of the decade or something crazy like that.

Now I don't want anyone to get it wrong. OOTPb isn't a bad game I just realized after 4 years it's not the gaming experience for me. It will probably never be the gaming experience that I want out of a sports management sim either. So its better just to forget about it and move on to the next game.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

My top 5 game of the last several years is Star Traders Frontiers and it was made by 2 brothers. Easily competing with the big boys. RPS (rock paper shotgun) even declared it a top 50 game of the decade or something crazy like that.

I just looked at this game on Steam and was going to wishlist it... well, it's already in my Steam library and I last played it 2 1/2 years ago.

Guess I'll check it out again.

[Giants44]

I love 3D - It is the only way I play now

I see its flaws (I didn't even see my pet peeve which is a 2 out "send\dont send" option ALWAYS leads to the 3D and play by play fast forwarding time warp style to the next AB without showing or telling you the result and you have to figure it out based upon the score and outs)

I want them to get better

I see it getting better

I still want it get even better

I dont want them to "concentrate somewhere else" and have never understand this line of reasoning in any area of the game. the game has a 20 year record of massive never ending improvements - most of which I love, some of which I dont care or will never care about. But someone else does and that makes the game better for them. this game already does so much that really matters to me, it is never my expectation that it ONLY fixes things I like. fix it all, get better. we trust you, you've earned it

[quillenl]

Originally Posted by ablobj

2. The money they make from PT is supposed to be put towards improving the "main game."

Did anyone from OOTP actually say this? Again, maybe they did and I just never saw it.

Yes.
https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=293539

"Perfect Team will be a journey. I want this mode to be as fun as possible for as many users as possible, while still generating extra revenue for the company which we then can invest back into the different game modes (core game + Perfect Team). " -Markus Heinsohn

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by quillenl

Yes.
https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=293539

"Perfect Team will be a journey. I want this mode to be as fun as possible for as many users as possible, while still generating extra revenue for the company which we then can invest back into the different game modes (core game + Perfect Team). " -Markus Heinsohn

Yup, and if PT would not have happened, things like the Ballpark Construction Kit would have never been possible, or the fact that we are hiring a 3D artist to redo all 3D ballparks for OOTP 22. Or a full-time support position, or a full-time marketing position, or three more full-time developers.