Suggestion: More Consistent PP Revenue Stream

[redmoss2]

Originally Posted by ASURay

Also, since PP earning are performance-based, stronger teams will earn at a faster rate than weaker teams which only makes it tougher to compete with the folks spending money for PP.

This is why we have promotion/relegation, so you're matched against equal teams. If you're outclassed, you might have to have a week of low points until you get relegated or the good players move up. There's roughly 208 seasons in the year, and more if you continue to stay on the same client.

[Whoofe]

Originally Posted by redmoss2

This is why we have promotion/relegation, so you're matched against equal teams. If you're outclassed, you might have to have a week of low points until you get relegated or the good players move up. There's roughly 208 seasons in the year, and more if you continue to stay on the same client.

and that should even things out both ways. if you struggle to earn PPs in a league and get demoted, you should theoretically be able to earn more PPs in a weaker league. while the guy who gets promoted should have a tougher time earning the oodles of PPs previously earned, because he will be facing tougher more consistent competition, so the outlying statistically great games should show up less often

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by ASURay

It seems to have worked in literally every game which PT is designed to compete with. I have played a lot of PES My Club, for example, which is a very well-balanced game with a promotion/relegation system consisting of over 100 levels (and expanding). It's a game where you can actually compete while spending nothing or very little. I've been playing for about 18 months and have spent maybe $20 total (the game is free to download) and have managed to make it to the Super Star leagues which are near the top of the ladder. In that game you get a little something as a daily login bonus -- not much but a bit. You get a little something for winning a match plus a bonus based on attendance (home matches only). It doesn't add up to a ton but it's nice to see my cash/coins climb a bit every time I login. I get enough to buy a pack of cards once every 2-3 days if I'm logging in and playing consistently. That's pretty minimal when you consider that most of those cards are going to be throw aways. I earned PP at a much faster rate the first few days but, not that I've used up the non-repeatable achievements (first win, etc.) things have really slowed down. It has been 21 in-game days since I earned PP from anything other than selling cards. Also, since PP earning are performance-based, stronger teams will earn at a faster rate than weaker teams which only makes it tougher to compete with the folks spending money for PP.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't PES MyClub (like MUT or Diamond Dynasty) reliant on you playing out your games?

That's the biggest difference here. PT runs in the background, without user input, earning PP, every single day. You can leave and come back a week later and your team will have played games and earned PP. MUT and Diamond Dynasty and the like all require you to be actively online, playing the game all the time, to be able to reliably collect their currency. PT gives it to you just for participating.

Also, I feel like I should have this hotkeyed since I know I'm going to keep repeating it:

Better cards ≠ better results automatically.

[ASURay]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't PES MyClub (like MUT or Diamond Dynasty) reliant on you playing out your games?

That's the biggest difference here. PT runs in the background, without user input, earning PP, every single day. You can leave and come back a week later and your team will have played games and earned PP. MUT and Diamond Dynasty and the like all require you to be actively online, playing the game all the time, to be able to reliably collect their currency. PT gives it to you just for participating.

Also, I feel like I should have this hotkeyed since I know I'm going to keep repeating it:

Better cards ≠ better results automatically.

PES:MC does require you to play out games (or sit there while they sim, rather). The fact that PT runs on its own would seem to put non-spending players at a further disadvantage. In a game like PES:MC, I could keep up in earnings through effort -- making sure I logged in and played whenever I had a game available. In theory, I could get in like 30 games per day if I really wanted to whereas the typical player may only play 5 (which is the minimum you need to earn a daily bonus). In PT I don't have the option of putting in that extra effort. Of course, in PES:MC you're playing the AI as opposed to other players so I understand why PT is the way it is. Everyone obviously needs to be playing the same number of games.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by ASURay

PES:MC does require you to play out games (or sit there while they sim, rather). The fact that PT runs on its own would seem to put non-spending players at a further disadvantage. In a game like PES:MC, I could keep up in earnings through effort -- making sure I logged in and played whenever I had a game available. In theory, I could get in like 30 games per day if I really wanted to whereas the typical player may only play 5 (which is the minimum you need to earn a daily bonus). In PT I don't have the option of putting in that extra effort. Of course, in PES:MC you're playing the AI as opposed to other players so I understand why PT is the way it is. Everyone obviously needs to be playing the same number of games.

If you put in the extra effort of properly managing your team & improving it, you will do better and hence earn more PP. I don't see the difference.

[Kris Jardine]

I've said this in a few other threads, but might as well repeat myself here.

It is way too early to start looking at PP being earned as being too low/too high/just right. We haven't completed a single season cycle yet, haven't seen the effects of promotion/relegation either. It's definitely something the team is keeping an eye on, but its far too early to make any sort of judgement one way or another

[Westheim]

I, too, see no need for a constant IV drip of more points, and especially not the PP-per-win idea the OP has right at the top of the thread, *while* complaining all the time that he is just going to get outbought by paying players? You know who is going to profit the most from PPs for every win? Players that win a lot, which especially early on will be the paying players.

There is a lot of constant whining about those evil paying players, while the game itself was launched only one week ago today. People are too short-sighted to realize that right now *everybody* is at the same level in the league system, the players that spend tons of money, the players that know The Book in and out, the players that will maybe occasionally drop a fiver in there and otherwise try to make it on their limited smarts (my category), the players that are currently very visibly upset for reasons stated, and the players that logged in once and haven't been seen since. You might even have all five of those in the same division. Results *are* going to be skewed at this point.

I am also against everything that turns any game into a chore like "login every eight hours for your daily goody pack". No. Just no.

[Ajax]

Still working on exploring more, but so far I'm feeling trapped by no more revenue. 20ish games ran while I was at work. I won half of them roughly in the Entry division. I seem to have earned zero PP. As a long time OOTP players I will give it more time, but I can see a new player getting turned off very quickly by what seems to be a pay to win system.

[Maddox]

While I still don't think that there needs to be a steady supply of PP I will say that even for someone as all in as I have been, this is a little frustrating.

I went a full in game month without earning any PP. I last earned on July 29th and the next batch I got was on August 28th

Probably the only reason I got the most recent points was because I was facing a team that is 23-111

[Westheim]

What ever happened to working towards a goal and instead getting shoved the goal up your bum?

[Ajax]

With traditional OOTP I agree. Its a slower game designed for detail-oriented players. My understanding of Perfect Pitch is that they are trying to expand to a faster play game audience. My feedback is that I think you will lose that audience (not existing traditional OOTP players) if their experience is that they can't improve their players with some sort of revenue stream. Note that anyone willing to throw regular money at it can get that steady stream of PP. I think many new players will assess it as a pay-to-win game and will move on.



Maybe something as simple as a few points for a win? Even the O's win some games...

Originally Posted by Westheim

What ever happened to working towards a goal and instead getting shoved the goal up your bum?

[Maddox]

Despite me being salty that my team has an extreme aversion to earning achievements (they only earned 3 bronze achievements in the entire month of August) I think it is too soon to draw any definite conclusions about the rate PP are earned and also too soon to think about changes. We are still in the first season after all. I am hearing stories of people earning lots of PP on a daily basis.

But, after that recent dry spell I just went through I do have more empathy for those who feel the game may be a little stingy at times.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Maddox

While I still don't think that there needs to be a steady supply of PP I will say that even for someone as all in as I have been, this is a little frustrating.

I went a full in game month without earning any PP. I last earned on July 29th and the next batch I got was on August 28th

Probably the only reason I got the most recent points was because I was facing a team that is 23-111

A full game month is 15 hours. If we'd award PP in a pace that would result in a pack every single day or two, then the whole system would collapse after a couple of weeks.

In about 2 weeks we'll review the whole system and if we feel we need to make adjustments one way or the other, we do it. The goal is to have a stable system that does not suffer from vast inflation. Otherwise, it would not be fun for anyone

[Kushiel]

Fantastic! I detest knee jerk reactions. I was real hot on PP the first half and pretty cold the second half so far with achievements. The pendulum can definitely swing both ways.

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

A full game month is 15 hours. If we'd award PP in a pace that would result in a pack every single day or two, then the whole system would collapse after a couple of weeks.

In about 2 weeks we'll review the whole system and if we feel we need to make adjustments one way or the other, we do it. The goal is to have a stable system that does not suffer from vast inflation. Otherwise, it would not be fun for anyone

[edmc]

We are certainly early so lets not be hasty in changes.
I am another .400s winning percentage team. I think I have learned from some mistakes and look forward to the start over.
However a big attraction to this mode was the pack opening. I have only bought one standard pack & on reflection feel like it was irrational to do so.
It feels like the packs are for the powerful teams to experience & I should build through auction from their castoffs. Just seems to be more efficient use of the PP.
Maybe aside from winning PP have a was to win packs? Maybe a season end pack for losing records?
Not really sure of the answer but bottom line ... I would like to open more packs.
I really appreciate the new life this mode brings to the ootp world along with the traditional ootp experience that has entertained me so much for over a decade. Thanks guys!

[cak]

Hello everyone
I'm new to the forum I just discovered ootp last year.
It is the first week and I would agree its too early to make rash judgements of PT. However if I understand the process If you buy your points you get to keep them when the beta ends but points your team earns during game play are lost. I understand ootp needs a bit of "juice"but IMO points earned during gameplay should not be lost. I don't understand the logic behind that.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by cak

Hello everyone
I'm new to the forum I just discovered ootp last year.
It is the first week and I would agree its too early to make rash judgements of PT. However if I understand the process If you buy your points you get to keep them when the beta ends but points your team earns during game play are lost. I understand ootp needs a bit of "juice"but IMO points earned during gameplay should not be lost. I don't understand the logic behind that.

Because it's an open Beta version right now. All progress will be wiped once the mode is technically "released."

[cak]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Because it's an open Beta version right now. All progress will be wiped once the mode is technically "released."

I get that but all progress is not wiped out if you buy your points you get to keep them.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by cak

I get that but all progress is not wiped out if you buy your points you get to keep them.

Yes, but that is technically not progress. It's an investment which carries over.

[Ajax]

Follow-up/modified suggestion: I gave it another 12 hours and managed to make 1400 points. While I appreciate Marcus' concern for not having PP flying everywhere, I think steadying out the stream some will help player satisfaction and first impressions for retaining the target new customer base. I would rob a little from some of the other reward values and give some small token rewards for daily login and game wins. The target would be same overall average PP awards, just equalized some to avoid the complete feeling of no progress at points.

Originally Posted by Ajax

Still working on exploring more, but so far I'm feeling trapped by no more revenue. 20ish games ran while I was at work. I won half of them roughly in the Entry division. I seem to have earned zero PP. As a long time OOTP players I will give it more time, but I can see a new player getting turned off very quickly by what seems to be a pay to win system.