Something wrong with rotation while simming end of regular season

[Dyzalot]

So I was using the "finish day" option to sim the last three days of the regular season after my team had clinched the division. On the first day the #2 pitcher in the rotation was slated to start. For some reason the AI chose a starter lower in the order who also was rested. On day two, the #2 guy in the rotation was still listed as the "probable" starter but when I simmed the day, the AI chose a different starter who was being forced to pitch on 4 days rest. Simming the last day of the regular season resulted in the same way with the AI again choosing a different starter that was being forced to start on four days rest. Is there some kind of coding going on here where the AI is trying not to use the best starters at the end of the season if the division is clinched? Is this causing it to use other starters on short rest instead of the scheduled starter?

[Westheim]

Since when is four days' rest considered short rest?

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Since when is four days' rest considered short rest?

When you count every hour. Pitch June 1st and then pitch again on June 6th means you've had 5 days rest. But meant to say he was forced to pitch on the fourth day instead of the standard fifth day.

[Reed]

It has been awhile since I clinched a pennant but I thought once you clinch the pennant the AI would adjust your rotation to give your starters a rest and to make sure the rotation is set (#1 starter, #2 starter, etc.) for the playoffs.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by Reed

It has been awhile since I clinched a pennant but I thought once you clinch the pennant the AI would adjust your rotation to give your starters a rest and to make sure the rotation is set (#1 starter, #2 starter, etc.) for the playoffs.

Yep.


In previous versions the AI would just follow the rotation so teams would start playoff series with their #4 guy because the three best starters were all used in the final weekend in games that don't matter in the final standings. IRL teams wiggle the pitching around to make sure the guys they want starting in the playoffs are rested. What the AI is attempting to do is realistic.



I was fortunate to win my division in the last completed season of my universe and as the season wound down I noticed the AI not following the rotation which was fine with me. My best starters were rested. For good measure I had a kid up from AAA start the last game of the season and manually adjusted the rotation to insure that happened.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

So I was using the "finish day" option to sim the last three days of the regular season after my team had clinched the division. On the first day the #2 pitcher in the rotation was slated to start. For some reason the AI chose a starter lower in the order who also was rested. On day two, the #2 guy in the rotation was still listed as the "probable" starter but when I simmed the day, the AI chose a different starter who was being forced to pitch on 4 days rest. Simming the last day of the regular season resulted in the same way with the AI again choosing a different starter that was being forced to start on four days rest. Is there some kind of coding going on here where the AI is trying not to use the best starters at the end of the season if the division is clinched? Is this causing it to use other starters on short rest instead of the scheduled starter?

Yes if you are on the latest patch.

[Rain King]

I like that it is making sure the top pitchers are rested for the post-season, but if it is starting guys on short rest to do so that is an issue. It should be using the Long Reliever/Spot-Starter position first and then going to other relievers who are rested and have some stamina. Of course, it may be possible that the entire bullpen is tired or something...that then becomes more of a roster management issue, but if you are playing with expanded September rosters this probably doesn't come into play.

[NoOne]

that's not new this release, though. i've definitely overridden that ai choice at one time or another for at least a few years. i wouldn't wager on how long... i don't remember it not working that way, though.

[Dyzalot]

Well if it is coded in then it is bugged. It was giving my #2 starter a rest by making my #1 pitcher go on three days rest which then resulted in an injury before the playoffs. If it is coded to do this then why isn't it looking for "AAAA" starters on the bench who were called up for September to start instead of just screwing up the 5-man rotation? MLB managers don't "reconfigure" their post season rotations by making some of their starters go on short rest at the end of the season.

Also, what is the point of resting your top pitchers at the end of the season in the modern era after winning the division. You could literally start your #1 for game 162 and he'd still be rested to start game #1 of the divisional playoffs if you don't have to play in the wild card game.

One other point to consider, managers don't always rest their best pitcher at the end of the season, especially if it won't affect their availability for the playoffs. So if a starter needs one start for qualifying for a bonus, he probably gets his start. Pitcher has 19 wins? He probably gets a start. Pitcher is in the running for the Cy Young? He might get his start. Pitcher just came back a few weeks ago from the DL and a rehab stint in the minors? He probably gets his start. Its not so cut and dried as "playoffs clinched, everybody gets rested".

[Curve Ball Dave]

You could always manually manipulate your pitching staff and usage rather than leave it to the AI. Every problem has a solution.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

You could always manually manipulate your pitching staff and usage rather than leave it to the AI. Every problem has a solution.

How? If you want me to not sim and play games out instead, well that's a whole different experience. I thought I was "manually manipulating my pitching staff" by setting a rotation. It is the AI overriding my strategy settings, not me relying on it to use my pitchers properly.

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

How? If you want me to not sim and play games out instead, well that's a whole different experience. I thought I was "manually manipulating my pitching staff" by setting a rotation. It is the AI overriding my strategy settings, not me relying on it to use my pitchers properly.

You aren't wrong that this sounds buggy, but if you use 7-day lineups this isn't an issue either.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

How? If you want me to not sim and play games out instead, well that's a whole different experience. I thought I was "manually manipulating my pitching staff" by setting a rotation. It is the AI overriding my strategy settings, not me relying on it to use my pitchers properly.

You can pull pitchers you don't want to start out of the rotation and replace them with call ups, change the starter for that day in the Pitching screen, set low pitch counts for that day's starter, or do some combination of all three. I've done all of these things at one time or another as the season winds down and had the starters I wanted ready for the playoffs. This isn't some huge problem that is impossible to overcome. It just requires a little attention on your part. If you don't want to play the games out, you can start the game as if you are and make sure the starter you want is pitching that day. If not you can change him. Once the guy you want is in the lineup you can sim the game to the end, it'll take a second.



The developers coded this as a best effort to use logical AI at the end of the season so the best pitchers are ready for the playoffs. But, they can't read our minds. Sometimes you have to put in a modicum of effort to see to it that things play out as you want them.

[Matt Arnold]

We're actually going to make some changes to this for the next patch. It seems it was not very well known before that the AI would sit your top starters at the end of the season, so we'll change it so that they won't tweak your rotation, it will be up to you to set things properly at the end. There's a number of ways to set it (change the next starter listed, set a game strategy to bench a guy, alter rotation, use 7-day lineups, etc...) so we'll put it back to you to manage it exactly how you want.

The AI, if they control lineups, will set the strategy to bench a guy the last couple days of the season for the top 2 guys in the rotation as their way to skip the starters, which is essentially the intended behaviour now. But at least we won't "lie" to you and have people keep wondering why we do crazy things.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

You can pull pitchers you don't want to start out of the rotation and replace them with call ups, change the starter for that day in the Pitching screen, set low pitch counts for that day's starter, or do some combination of all three. I've done all of these things at one time or another as the season winds down and had the starters I wanted ready for the playoffs. This isn't some huge problem that is impossible to overcome. It just requires a little attention on your part.

I did pay attention. That's why I sim by day instead of by week at the end of the season. I make lineup changes and rotation changes as needed, then sim the day. I made sure the starter I wanted was the one listed as the probable starter. I did everything except started the game as if I'm going to play it out because I sim, I don't play games out. Even games I want to watch, I don't mess with the AI because it feels like "cheating" to me since the AI doesn't have a human helping it too.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

You could always manually manipulate your pitching staff and usage rather than leave it to the AI. Every problem has a solution.

it actually overrides your choice. you ahve to start the game, ensure lineup/pitcher, then enter the game and sim to end. you can't just click 'finish day' to sim the last 2 games of season or so. if an SP enters as a reliever, i don't think he gets the same # of pitches per stamina, eh? so you can't use pitch coutns to circumvent it, either. it won't matter in the next patch, anyway.

the way i have my rotation going, i don't run into that anymore. so, i'm not sure if it works that exact same way as years ago. in the past, that's what i did to override it. manually starting the last 2 games and simming.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by NoOne

it actually overrides your choice. you ahve to start the game, ensure lineup/pitcher, then enter the game and sim to end. you can't just click 'finish day' to sim the last 2 games of season or so.

I wrote, "If you don't want to play the games out, you can start the game as if you are and make sure the starter you want is pitching that day. If not you can change him. Once the guy you want is in the lineup you can sim the game to the end, it'll take a second."

I didn't have to do that at the end of my last season. By manually manipulating my rotation using other techniques the guys I wanted to start the first three games of the Division series did. It's not a huge problem to overcome.