Red Sox One up the Yankees AGAIN - Page 3

SoxWin · 07-30-2003, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mh2365
I was surprised to see that also seeing how he is considered the Golden Boy but Fossum and YOulkis for Garcia is something to consider

No it isn't, not even for as long as it took me to type out this post. Freddy has sucked since the break last year and is a well known partier and head case.

Rich

CMH · 07-30-2003, 11:24 PM

Freddy Garcia is on the decline. Someone needs to wake him up like Clemens woke up Schilling.

Hopefully Jamie Moyer does.

mh2365 · 07-31-2003, 08:15 AM

I agree Garcia has sucked it up since the break last year but the talent is still there and he's young .... if he was 32 and acting like this then see ya ..... something to consider like I said although I probabley wouldn't pull the trigger .... as much as I hate to agree with YankeePride I agree we need to wait out August if the Sox are still in it after August then we can get excited .... problem with being a life long Sox fan is I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop

Crapshoot · 07-31-2003, 09:21 AM

Giving up Youklis would be crazy- the man is Bonds Lite without the power (at all- absoultely no frigging power)...., which is high praise...

I think the Sox need to remember that the season isn't over- Id prefer for them to win, but the Yanks are good at pulling away- you'd think Sox fans wouldnt forget so easily...

AnotherAlias · 07-31-2003, 10:35 AM

With all due respect to the Red Sox and Rich, I think Boston might falter like they always do.

What Denton says just doesn't ring True.

CommishJoe · 07-31-2003, 10:52 AM

Highlander did have a good point though. A lot of people dissed the Yankees in the late 90s as being a "bought" team. If the Sox did win it all this year, wouldn't they fall in the same category?

As for today, I have a feeling we're in for some very interesting trades. As someone said earlier, when Steiny's involved, who knows what will happen. And, unfortunately, he's involved.

draven085 · 07-31-2003, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CommishJoe
Highlander did have a good point though. A lot of people dissed the Yankees in the late 90s as being a "bought" team. If the Sox did win it all this year, wouldn't they fall in the same category?

All the Yankee defenders have still not addressed that the Yankees outspend every other team by a huge amount. Its simply that they spend the most, the spend the most by a ridiculous amount. Feel free to continue ignoring this difference.

CommishJoe · 07-31-2003, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by draven085
All the Yankee defenders have still not addressed that the Yankees outspend every other team by a huge amount. Its simply that they spend the most, the spend the most by a ridiculous amount. Feel free to continue ignoring this difference.

And feel free to continue not reading what was posted before responding. Notice what I was comparing??? The Yankees of the late 90s were not this bad payroll wise. I can't find it on baseball reference now (I could swear someone posted payroll amounts from that site a while back .. if anyone has it, please let me know).

This year is stupid, I give you that. I don't try to defend anything Steiney does. The late 90s Yankees weren't his work. It was Gene Michael, Bob Watson and the rest of the Yankees brass that built the nucleus while Steiney was suspended.

Crapshoot · 07-31-2003, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by draven085
All the Yankee defenders have still not addressed that the Yankees outspend every other team by a huge amount. Its simply that they spend the most, the spend the most by a ridiculous amount. Feel free to continue ignoring this difference.

and The RedSox are usually no 2- something many RedSox fans forget- you could not have acquired Pedro/Manny/Kim/Williamson if it were not for the ability to take on payroll, and to take on lots of it. The RedSox spend money that Billy Beane or Chuck (dumbass) LaMAr couldn't dream of- hell, Brian Sabean or Walt Jocketty can't get that high. Red Sox fans have no excuse to paint their team as "underdogs."

draven085 · 07-31-2003, 11:20 AM

Sorry Joe, I read what you posted. I was simply quoting you as an example of a Yankee defender

If the Red Sox were to win it all (highly unlikely), it would be pretty foolish to say they bought the title when the Yankees payroll was astronomically larger.

draven085 · 07-31-2003, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aadik
and The RedSox are usually no 2- something many RedSox fans forget- you could not have acquired Pedro/Manny/Kim/Williamson if it were not for the ability to take on payroll, and to take on lots of it. The RedSox spend money that Billy Beane or Chuck (dumbass) LaMAr couldn't dream of- hell, Brian Sabean or Walt Jocketty can't get that high. Red Sox fans have no excuse to paint their team as "underdogs."

You're right. 70 million dollars is no difference at all. Point taken.

CommishJoe · 07-31-2003, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by draven085
Sorry Joe, I read what you posted. I was simply quoting you as an example of a Yankee defender If the Red Sox were to win it all (highly unlikely), it would be pretty foolish to say they bought the title when the Yankees payroll was astronomically larger.

However, they did it in a fashion that denotes buying a lot more then the Yankees did in 96, 98, 99 and 00. So, the only difference is the Yankees spent a ton more this season then the Sox did, so that doesn't mean this team isn't "bought"? I don't quite understand that logic.

And yeah, I'm a Yankee defender. I just like to think I do it logically

It just rubs me wrong to think that people try to belittle what the Yankees did in the late 90s by saying it was nothing more then money. It wasn't .. not even by a long shot. I still say the 2002 Angels remind me a LOT of the 1996 Yanks. No all-stars. Just a group of guys playing very well together.

Crapshoot · 07-31-2003, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by draven085
You're right. 70 million dollars is no difference at all. Point taken.

And the 60 mil difference between the Red Sox and the A's, or the Royals, or Marlins- well, that makes no difference right ? You're too smart to take that as the point Draven- the point being that the Red Sox have no business complaining- the core of their team was acquired from other teams who couldnt afford them due to payroll. They also match anyone in spending bar the Yanks- to argue that being able to match 28 teams for talent and outbid them is irrelevant as compared to 1 is somewhat ridiculous.

CommishJoe · 07-31-2003, 11:49 AM

Scary .. I'm actually making a good tag team partner with a Bonds lover

See that .. you can't stereotype someone based on the team or player he likes

draven085 · 07-31-2003, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aadik
And the 60 mil difference between the Red Sox and the A's, or the Royals, or Marlins- well, that makes no difference right ? You're too smart to take that as the point Draven- the point being that the Red Sox have no business complaining- the core of their team was acquired from other teams who couldnt afford them due to payroll. They also match anyone in spending bar the Yanks- to argue that being able to match 28 teams for talent and outbid them is irrelevant as compared to 1 is somewhat ridiculous.

I never said the Red Sox weren't a large market team and didn't have a significant advantage over most of the teams in the league. As a Sox fan I feel spoiled and somewhat guilty about it at times. I also consider myself fortunate because I root for a team that is able to spend the money to keep their core of players together and surround them with good complementary players that poorer teams can't afford to retain.

That said, anyone going up against the Yankees is an underdog. The huge amount of money that The Boss throws around gives the Yankees almost unlimited room for mistakes that would cripple other teams. It gets frustrating for me when Yankee fans refuse to see and/or admit this.

draven085 · 07-31-2003, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CommishJoe
However, they did it in a fashion that denotes buying a lot more then the Yankees did in 96, 98, 99 and 00. So, the only difference is the Yankees spent a ton more this season then the Sox did, so that doesn't mean this team isn't "bought"? I don't quite understand that logic.

The logic is that if a pennant is "bought", wouldn't the team that spent the most money win it?

Obviously baseball's financial landscape has changed dramatically in the past few years making it easier for large market teams to acquire players simply because small market teams can no longer afford to pay them. Maybe this Sox team is more bought than the Yankee teams of the mid and late 90's, but so are the current Yankees. I don't really buy the notion that pennants are bought anyway, but it certainly helps to have money on your side.

CommishJoe · 07-31-2003, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by draven085
The logic is that if a pennant is "bought", wouldn't the team that spent the most money win it?

Obviously baseball's financial landscape has changed dramatically in the past few years making it easier for large market teams to acquire players simply because small market teams can no longer afford to pay them. Maybe this Sox team is more bought than the Yankee teams of the mid and late 90's, but so are the current Yankees. I don't really buy the notion that pennants are bought anyway, but it certainly helps to have money on your side.

It's hard to argue with someone who has the same basic philosophy. Money does help, but it's not the most important factor. The money still has to be spent on the right players.

Bottom line, until a salary cap and floor are instituted, the MLB will remain a league of haves and have nots.

draven085 · 07-31-2003, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CommishJoe
It's hard to argue with someone who has the same basic philosophy. Money does help, but it's not the most important factor. The money still has to be spent on the right players.

Bottom line, until a salary cap and floor are instituted, the MLB will remain a league of haves and have nots.

Well I agree with you on that one

I, for one, would love to see a salary cap instituted.

CommishJoe · 07-31-2003, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by draven085
Well I agree with you on that one I, for one, would love to see a salary cap instituted.

See that all you people who think you have to hate a team's fans too?? A Red Sox and Yankee fan just agreed on something!!

rallymonkey1982 · 07-31-2003, 01:10 PM

My problem with the Yanks is that they always get the guy they want in free agency, they seem to get the top guy every year. I'm not going to diss Steinbrenner, because he is using the resources he has, and he's built up those resources really well.

However, the resource edge the Yankees have over the A's, Mariners, or anyone else is staggering. The Yankees income is something over $200 million a year, I heard $220 million earlier this year, but I don't have a link or the article, so I odn't know for sure. To put that in perspective, the Angels were bought for $185 million this year. That's a serious gap that I want to see closed.

07-31-2003, 09:21 AM	#44
Crapshoot Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: watching: DArwin's missing link in action Posts: 3,112	Giving up Youklis would be crazy- the man is Bonds Lite without the power (at all- absoultely no frigging power)...., which is high praise... I think the Sox need to remember that the season isn't over- Id prefer for them to win, but the Yanks are good at pulling away- you'd think Sox fans wouldnt forget so easily... __________________ Senior Senor Member of the OOTP Boards Pittsburgh Playmates- OTBL

07-31-2003, 10:52 AM	#46
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	Highlander did have a good point though. A lot of people dissed the Yankees in the late 90s as being a "bought" team. If the Sox did win it all this year, wouldn't they fall in the same category? As for today, I have a feeling we're in for some very interesting trades. As someone said earlier, when Steiny's involved, who knows what will happen. And, unfortunately, he's involved. __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.

07-31-2003, 11:49 AM	#54
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	Scary .. I'm actually making a good tag team partner with a Bonds lover See that .. you can't stereotype someone based on the team or player he likes __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.

07-31-2003, 01:10 PM	#60
rallymonkey1982 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Orange County Posts: 436	My problem with the Yanks is that they always get the guy they want in free agency, they seem to get the top guy every year. I'm not going to diss Steinbrenner, because he is using the resources he has, and he's built up those resources really well. However, the resource edge the Yankees have over the A's, Mariners, or anyone else is staggering. The Yankees income is something over $200 million a year, I heard $220 million earlier this year, but I don't have a link or the article, so I odn't know for sure. To put that in perspective, the Angels were bought for $185 million this year. That's a serious gap that I want to see closed. __________________ "This is sort of like living the American dream. You get to come the ballpark and get a free beer." - Arte Moreno My Life

07-30-2003, 11:24 PM	#42
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	Freddy Garcia is on the decline. Someone needs to wake him up like Clemens woke up Schilling. Hopefully Jamie Moyer does.

07-31-2003, 08:15 AM	#43
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	I agree Garcia has sucked it up since the break last year but the talent is still there and he's young .... if he was 32 and acting like this then see ya ..... something to consider like I said although I probabley wouldn't pull the trigger .... as much as I hate to agree with YankeePride I agree we need to wait out August if the Sox are still in it after August then we can get excited .... problem with being a life long Sox fan is I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop

07-31-2003, 10:35 AM	#45
AnotherAlias Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I'm back...for now Posts: 4,190	With all due respect to the Red Sox and Rich, I think Boston might falter like they always do. What Denton says just doesn't ring True.

07-31-2003, 11:20 AM	#50
draven085 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,074	Sorry Joe, I read what you posted. I was simply quoting you as an example of a Yankee defender If the Red Sox were to win it all (highly unlikely), it would be pretty foolish to say they bought the title when the Yankees payroll was astronomically larger.