Detroit Tigers 2015 Season Thread

[cephasjames]

6-0 Detroit, top of 4 tonight. 9-8 last night. Any other players for the Tigers to trade? A fire seems to have been lit.

[CONN CHRIS]

Not only does Krol pitch poorly, he can't field his position or throw to a base either. A real renaissance man.

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

6-0 Detroit, top of 4 tonight. 9-8 last night. Any other players for the Tigers to trade? A fire seems to have been lit.

7-6 Baltimore, bottom of 6. The fire is gone.

[pgjocki]

I turned on the game with the score 6-1 Tigers and was amazed at how quickly they imploded.

[DamPenguin]

Okay this is my viewpoint in general concerning our Tigers. First let me say that while I am a die hard Tigers fan I am not an everyday Joe kind of fan. What I mean by that I want the Tigers to win championships and am not simply satisfied with winning records or divisional titles...

Recently it was asked something to the effects if DD has done a good job? Yes he did a good job. He turned the Tigers into contenders and with a great amount of Illitch's money. I'm still not satisfied though. Even when we made it to the Series against the Cardinals and then the Giants... both of which I think we were generally favored to win... why didn't we win? We had the big names, both in players and manager. We had spent the $$$ to win. But why didn't we win? And this is my reasoning...

It's the same problem we have had for quite some time. Fundamentals. Against the Cardinals our pitchers, or anybody else, couldn't field a bunt. On the flip side I can probably count the amount of successful sacrifice bunts we have in the last decade with my fingers. Pushing the runner in from 2nd or 3rd when we have 1 or less outs. Not hitting into double plays. Striking out at alarming rates (by the way I wouldn't allow these guys to play golf because any ball at the level of their shoe laces is getting swung at). Executing a hit-and-run. Taking a base on balls. Doesn't sound like deal breakers but when you play good teams... which you will in the playoffs or the Series... those are the things that need to be done successfully to win.

For all the big names we have and have had we just couldn't get those little things done. I enjoy watching the Royals play, the way they run the bases and play with heart. Maybe I'm alone but those things haven't been a part of Tiger baseball for a while. Maybe only when Miggy got mad when Valverde blew a save in the playoffs might be the exception.

Sorry for the rant guys but like I've said before... I want championships not just a "good" or "winning" team.

[Westheim]

I'm grieving over Michael Fulmer, whom I only knew three days ago.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by DamPenguin

Okay this is my viewpoint in general concerning our Tigers. First let me say that while I am a die hard Tigers fan I am not an everyday Joe kind of fan. What I mean by that I want the Tigers to win championships and am not simply satisfied with winning records or divisional titles...

Recently it was asked something to the effects if DD has done a good job? Yes he did a good job. He turned the Tigers into contenders and with a great amount of Illitch's money. I'm still not satisfied though. Even when we made it to the Series against the Cardinals and then the Giants... both of which I think we were generally favored to win... why didn't we win? We had the big names, both in players and manager. We had spent the $$$ to win. But why didn't we win? And this is my reasoning...

It's the same problem we have had for quite some time. Fundamentals. Against the Cardinals our pitchers, or anybody else, couldn't field a bunt. On the flip side I can probably count the amount of successful sacrifice bunts we have in the last decade with my fingers. Pushing the runner in from 2nd or 3rd when we have 1 or less outs. Not hitting into double plays. Striking out at alarming rates (by the way I wouldn't allow these guys to play golf because any ball at the level of their shoe laces is getting swung at). Executing a hit-and-run. Taking a base on balls. Doesn't sound like deal breakers but when you play good teams... which you will in the playoffs or the Series... those are the things that need to be done successfully to win.

For all the big names we have and have had we just couldn't get those little things done. I enjoy watching the Royals play, the way they run the bases and play with heart. Maybe I'm alone but those things haven't been a part of Tiger baseball for a while. Maybe only when Miggy got mad when Valverde blew a save in the playoffs might be the exception.

Sorry for the rant guys but like I've said before... I want championships not just a "good" or "winning" team.

I'm curious that you seem to blame the hitting for the Tigers lack of success when it seems fairly obvious that the pitching and defense just wasn't good enough. Rightly or wrongly the team was built around hitting and with such hitters that defense and small ball was going to be problematic. I understand your frustration: as a Blue Jays fan it kills me when they don't win (22 years) but I wouldn't want our big time hitters giving away outs and playing against their skills unless it's forced on them because they can't get a hit at all. Kind of like, "live by the sword... ...".

Not trying to provoke an argument here; just observing that GM's have to set a course and stick with it most of the time. A lot of things (luck) have to go right. The Royals are today's flavor but face some significant arb issues and only have 10 players under contract for 2016. Their window is tight considering the market and payroll limitations.

[DamPenguin]

Originally Posted by RchW

I'm curious that you seem to blame the hitting for the Tigers lack of success when it seems fairly obvious that the pitching and defense just wasn't good enough. Rightly or wrongly the team was built around hitting and with such hitters that defense and small ball was going to be problematic. I understand your frustration: as a Blue Jays fan it kills me when they don't win (22 years) but I wouldn't want our big time hitters giving away outs and playing against their skills unless it's forced on them because they can't get a hit at all. Kind of like, "live by the sword... ...".

Not trying to provoke an argument here; just observing that GM's have to set a course and stick with it most of the time. A lot of things (luck) have to go right. The Royals are today's flavor but face some significant arb issues and only have 10 players under contract for 2016. Their window is tight considering the market and payroll limitations.

No argument at all. I guess I was just saying I don't agree that the route DD took was going to win a championship. Hey if you don't have the players to win ok. It's not like the other teams will just give it to you. But when two good teams play, generally the little things make the difference between winning and losing.

[Airdrop01]

Originally Posted by RchW

A lot of things (luck) have to go right. The Royals are today's flavor but face some significant arb issues and only have 10 players under contract for 2016. Their window is tight considering the market and payroll limitations.

Absolutely this. Unless you're the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers or Cubs and maybe Rangers you basically have to get lucky, have guys all ready at once for a few years, and then have a system that you can deplete to put you over the top....and then, it still is luck.

The Cardinals, who I grew up with (Bob Gibson, Lou Brock - I've got a Lou Brock signed HOF jersey in my basement) but have grown to depise, are simply inexplicable to me in this regard....Now with their new gigantic media contract they just signed, ugggg.

I'm an old Royals fan. There are a lot of young ones now, which is GREAT, but they are penciling them in for playoffs every year and World Series every year now. They also freak out (for example today) if there is a three game losing streak. They'll learn, and I'm really glad to have them. But I don't think that not winning the WS is a failure and I'd take the success the Tigers have had in the Leyland/Verlander years (though I would not have traded Fister and wouldn't have given such a long contract to Verlander --- I was aghast there was even talk of signing Shields after last year!

The way I look at it, is if a team loses a player it can't afford to free agency, that player has had a great run for the team (ie, Alex Gordon, unless he is completely not concerned with making the most money, is probably gone...Guys get expensive really quickly if they succeeed....The window is tiny unless you're in a huge market).

[jacknastyspartan]

Originally Posted by DamPenguin

Okay this is my viewpoint in general concerning our Tigers. First let me say that while I am a die hard Tigers fan I am not an everyday Joe kind of fan. What I mean by that I want the Tigers to win championships and am not simply satisfied with winning records or divisional titles...

Recently it was asked something to the effects if DD has done a good job? Yes he did a good job. He turned the Tigers into contenders and with a great amount of Illitch's money. I'm still not satisfied though. Even when we made it to the Series against the Cardinals and then the Giants... both of which I think we were generally favored to win... why didn't we win? We had the big names, both in players and manager. We had spent the $$$ to win. But why didn't we win? And this is my reasoning...

It's the same problem we have had for quite some time. Fundamentals. Against the Cardinals our pitchers, or anybody else, couldn't field a bunt. On the flip side I can probably count the amount of successful sacrifice bunts we have in the last decade with my fingers. Pushing the runner in from 2nd or 3rd when we have 1 or less outs. Not hitting into double plays. Striking out at alarming rates (by the way I wouldn't allow these guys to play golf because any ball at the level of their shoe laces is getting swung at). Executing a hit-and-run. Taking a base on balls. Doesn't sound like deal breakers but when you play good teams... which you will in the playoffs or the Series... those are the things that need to be done successfully to win.

For all the big names we have and have had we just couldn't get those little things done. I enjoy watching the Royals play, the way they run the bases and play with heart. Maybe I'm alone but those things haven't been a part of Tiger baseball for a while. Maybe only when Miggy got mad when Valverde blew a save in the playoffs might be the exception.

Sorry for the rant guys but like I've said before... I want championships not just a "good" or "winning" team.

I disagree. The Tigers problem isn't that they don't bunt. The issue is that pitching has imploded every time they reach the World Series. I can't tell you why it happens, but it does.

The Tigers of the last 5 years have been built on powerful star hitters and dominant starting pitching. By the time you get to the World Series, or even the Championship Series, you can't rely necessarily on tremendous offensive production, because you are facing good teams with good pitchers consistently. The fact that the Tigers previously outstanding rotation has imploded is the reason they lose. That, and their god awful method of bullpen building. The stars and scrubs approach doesn't work to build a bullpen, as the Tigers have shown by having a highly paid and effective closer and occasionally set up man but still never having a good relief core.

I want to see the Tigers win as much as anyone, but I acknowledge that postseason baseball is a total crap shoot. It just is. The Atlanta Braves won a single title during their dominant run. The Cleveland Indians didn't win any in their 90's heyday. The best you can do is create the best odds you can. Sometimes it works out, and sometimes, frustratingly so, it doesn't.

The reason this years team didn't work was that the formerly vaunted starting rotation has been gutted over the last couple years. I think there are some valid criticisms over how the Tigers have been constructed over the last 10 years, but I don't think it's a lack of baseball fundamentals, and I certainly don't think questioning the heart of the players an appropriate exercise in it.

[DamPenguin]

Originally Posted by jacknastyspartan

I disagree. The Tigers problem isn't that they don't bunt. The issue is that pitching has imploded every time they reach the World Series. I can't tell you why it happens, but it does.

The Tigers of the last 5 years have been built on powerful star hitters and dominant starting pitching. By the time you get to the World Series, or even the Championship Series, you can't rely necessarily on tremendous offensive production, because you are facing good teams with good pitchers consistently. The fact that the Tigers previously outstanding rotation has imploded is the reason they lose. That, and their god awful method of bullpen building. The stars and scrubs approach doesn't work to build a bullpen, as the Tigers have shown by having a highly paid and effective closer and occasionally set up man but still never having a good relief core.

I want to see the Tigers win as much as anyone, but I acknowledge that postseason baseball is a total crap shoot. It just is. The Atlanta Braves won a single title during their dominant run. The Cleveland Indians didn't win any in their 90's heyday. The best you can do is create the best odds you can. Sometimes it works out, and sometimes, frustratingly so, it doesn't.

The reason this years team didn't work was that the formerly vaunted starting rotation has been gutted over the last couple years. I think there are some valid criticisms over how the Tigers have been constructed over the last 10 years, but I don't think it's a lack of baseball fundamentals, and I certainly don't think questioning the heart of the players an appropriate exercise in it.

There's a lot of truth in what you say. But I mostly remember the lost opportunities we've had. Getting outplayed by the Giants is one thing, maybe just the better team. You mentioned pitching... our starting pitching was top notch. We didn't lose either World Series because our pen couldn't hold it down. But in all honesty, for the last 10 years at least, "small ball" or "fundamentals" has not been our strong point.

[knightdreamer2k]

I am Yankee fan and maybe don't belong here but I can understand your pain. I do think it is somewhat a crapshoot in the playoffs, but I do think having player perform in the post-season is huge. The Yanks had that from '96-01, players that rose to the occasion, or even players that performed like their regular season stats suggest.

The '02-12 Yanks did not have this. We had too many players that would be great during the season only to struggle come playoff time. That to me is why teams like the giants are so good, if they get to the post season how many of their players are relaxed and able to perform as they should or better? I really thought we had some good teams from '02-12 but we only managed 1 championship and had to sell our souls to get it.

[cephasjames]

Norris looked impressive his first game for Detroit.

[cephasjames]

Green: Tigers dishonor themselves by throwing in towel

Could not disagree with this guy more. He says:

The Marlins, Phillies, Padres, Reds, Red Sox, Brewers, clubs in the doldrums, turned quitters because they had no logical chance to reach the postseason in October.

The Tigers quit while they still had a shot.

Did he not watch them play? Their run scoring was very inconsistent, which, yes, could have improved. But tack that on top of an abysmal rotation and an even worse bullpen, both of which were so bad that no small pieces could have fixed them. And then the coup de grace is if they stuck with the sucky rotation/bullpen with minor improvements and then didn't make the post-season they would get almost nothing in return for Price, et al. So they would lose and then lose. Now, they lose and more than likely win.

[jacknastyspartan]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

Green: Tigers dishonor themselves by throwing in towel

Could not disagree with this guy more. He saysid he not watch them play? Their run scoring was very inconsistent, which, yes, could have improved. But tack that on top of an abysmal rotation and an even worse bullpen, both of which were so bad that no small pieces could have fixed them. And then the coup de grace is if they stuck with the sucky rotation/bullpen with minor improvements and then didn't make the post-season they would get almost nothing in return for Price, et al. So they would lose and then lose. Now, they lose and more than likely win.

I could not agree with you more. The fact it is mathematically possible to make the postseason still does not make it mathematically probable, let alone the fact this team, with its lack of pitching, was clearly not going anywhere should it have gotten there.

[TribeFanInNC]

Originally Posted by knightdreamer2k

....and maybe don't belong here...

Wait, that isn't a prerequisite for being here, is it?!?!??! I think I failed that long ago

[CONN CHRIS]

Norris picked the perfect time for the best start of his short career. I'm really pulling for this kid.


Go vanman!

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Norris picked the perfect time for the best start of his short career. I'm really pulling for this kid.


Go vanman!

Some in Blue Jay Land actually refer to him as Van Norrison. It has a certain ring to it, don't you think?

[cephasjames]

Dave Dombrowski out as Detroit Tigers general manager - ESPN

Detroit Tigers release Dave Dombrowski from contract, name Al Avila new general manager

Originally Posted by Al Avila

We're confident we can make a strong push to win this year, and that we have the foundation in place to win next year and for years to come.

[RchW]

Next President of the Blue Jays?