Big Fights That Never Happened

Rob Morris · 06-18-2013, 06:22 AM

Apologies for the lousy thread title.

When I have the time I am using the new version to recreate big fights that never happened, the first one being Lennox Lewis v Riddick Bowe.

The way I do it is I have both set at career stage Prime as I want them both in the Prime when they fight and it also gives them an advantage as they advance through their careers as I want them, if possible, to be undefeated when they actually fight.

What I do is look at their actual records (printing them off Boxrec if necessary) and then have them fight the same opponent over the same number of rounds the fight was actually scheduled, the same date and if possible the same location. Obviously the opponent has to be in the TBCB database. So in this example, the first opponent for Lewis who is in the database is Ossie Ocasio, so that is Lewis’s first fight, an 8 rounder v Ossie Ocasio, Bowe’s first opponent is his real life pro debut, a 4 rounder v Lionel Butler.

In this example I plan to stop around 1993, 1994 as that is when there was a lot of talk of Lewis and Bowe meeting. Currently I am at the midway point of 1990, Lewis is 1-0 (1), a first round TKO over the afore mentioned Ocasio, Bowe by contrast is 6-0 (4). I reckon by the time I get to 1993 or mid 1994, Lewis will have had around 14 fights, Bowe 18 or 19.

bob_bask · 06-18-2013, 02:59 PM

Sounds interesting.

Sure they'll be lots of suggestions for this one.

Like first pick, can't wait read how the fight gets made too.

Rob Morris · 06-19-2013, 04:39 AM

Another reason for doing it like this is because I don't want Lewis and Bowe to fight when their records are 0-0, I want a bit of background, story if you like.

Once I get to a point where Bowe v Lewis was seriously talked about as happening (which IIRC was around mid 93 to 94) I will stop and make the fight. There is no complex formula here, its just all in my head really!!

There are plenty of other fights like this you could do, but Lewis v Bowe was an obvious one to me and its easy to do as they only fought in the one division unlike say, Mayweather v Pacquiao, who fought in multiple divisions which would mean changing ratings.

Lewis is now 2-0 (2) both first round wins. Bowe is 7-0 (4) having just edged past a post-prime Pinklon Thomas on a 10 round points decision.

bob_bask · 06-19-2013, 01:13 PM

Understand and like your reasoning behind simulating all their bouts up to that period.

Find it feels a bit hollow simulating a fight without some type of story going on.

With guys that didn't meet purely from same division. Only the obvious heavyweights ones spring to mind immediately.

Rob Morris · 06-19-2013, 01:20 PM

Does this prove how accurate the rating in TBCB are? In their latest fights Riddick Bowe beat Tony Morrison by KO1 in 2:43 in TBCB

In real life the result was Bowe KO1 in 2:20

Lennox Lewis beat Gary Mason by KO7 in 0:33 in TBCB

In real life the result was Lewis by TKO7 in 0:44

Not just getting the rounds right but almost the time!

bob_bask · 06-19-2013, 04:27 PM

That's accuracy for you.

How did Bowe do with Cooper?

Rob Morris · 06-19-2013, 05:01 PM

Bowe's results so far:

Lionel Butler W4
Garing Lane W4
Lorenzo Canady TKO 5
Mike Acey KO 4
Garing Lane KO 4
Art Card TKO 4
Art Tucker TKO 7
Pinklon Thomas W10
Bert Cooper KO 3
Tony Morrison KO 1
Tyrell Biggs TKO 9

Record 11-0 (8 KO's). Next up for Bowe is Tony Tubbs, a tricky assignment.

Lewis's record so far

Ossie Ocasio TKO 1
Mike Acey TKO 1
Jean-Maurice Chanet KO 4
Gary Mason KO 7
Mike Weaver TKO 1

Record 5-0 (5 KO's). Next up for Lewis is Glenn McCrory.

Infinity · 06-19-2013, 09:44 PM

Looking interesting Rob, will be following for sure..

Rob Morris · 06-20-2013, 07:52 AM

As suspected Bowe struggled with Tony Tubbs drawing over 10 rounds, although my gut instinct replaying the bout was that he had just done enough. The real life bout was close as well, I remember reading that some observers thought Tubbs had won. In the sim Bowe had an easier time with Rodolfo Marin, winning by 6th round KO to take his record to 12-0-1 (9).

Lewis by contrast dispatched Glenn McCrory in 3, then KO'd Tyrell Biggs in 7 to up his record to 7-0 (7).

Next up Bowe has Bruce Seldon, Lewis faces Levi Billups.

Rob Morris · 06-21-2013, 04:55 AM

Bowe surprisingly struggled a bit with Seldon, winning a 10 round decision, 96-93 on all cards, moving his record to 13-0-1 (9). Lewis meanwhile dominated and then knocked out the normally teak tough Levi Billups in round 5, upping his record to 8-0 (8).

Next up for Bowe is Elijah Tillery, whilst Lewis has a less demanding task in Mike Dixon.

Rob Morris · 06-22-2013, 04:55 PM

Bowe decisioned Tillery with a fairly comfortable 12 round decision whilst Lewis dispatched Mike Dixon with ease in 2 rounds. Bowe is now 14-0-1 (9) and has gone the distance in 3 of his last 4 bouts. Lewis's record is still a perfect one, 9-0 (9).

Next up for Bowe is Tillery again, whilst Lewis has his most dangerous assignment to date, a 12 rounder v Razor Ruddock.

Antonin · 06-22-2013, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Morris

...The way I do it is I have both set at career stage Prime as I want them both in the Prime when they fight and it also gives them an advantage as they advance through their careers as I want them, if possible, to be undefeated when they actually fight...

...What I do is look at their actual records (printing them off Boxrec if necessary) and then have them fight the same opponent over the same number of rounds the fight was actually scheduled, the same date and if possible the same location....

I've been thinking of doing the same thing for another fighter. Do you have each man's opponent also set at Prime?

Rob Morris · 06-23-2013, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antonin

I've been thinking of doing the same thing for another fighter. Do you have each man's opponent also set at Prime?

No I don't mate, I use my knowledge of what their opponents were like in real life at the time they fought. So for example I set Pinklon Thomas at post-prime when I simmed the bout as I feel he was no longer at his very peak when they met in real life in September 1990. I'm a little bit torn about Razor Ruddock's rating v Lewis but I am probably going to go with prime, his form going into the bout was pretty good.

Which fights are you thinking of replaying?

I would like to do McGuigan v Nelson next but I don't think there are enough of their earlier opponents to make it viable.

Rob Morris · 06-26-2013, 12:34 PM

The latest results see Bowe stop Elijah Tillery in 4 rounds in the return whilst Lewis overcame a shaky first round to stop Razor Ruddock in round 8.

Bowe needs to catch up to make this chronologically correct so he will have 3 bouts next with the first up being Everett Martin.

PWillisTheMan · 06-26-2013, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Morris

No I don't mate, I use my knowledge of what their opponents were like in real life at the time they fought. So for example I set Pinklon Thomas at post-prime when I simmed the bout as I feel he was no longer at his very peak when they met in real life in September 1990. I'm a little bit torn about Razor Ruddock's rating v Lewis but I am probably going to go with prime, his form going into the bout was pretty good.

Which fights are you thinking of replaying?

I would like to do McGuigan v Nelson next but I don't think there are enough of their earlier opponents to make it viable.

You can always make them yourself, if you don't like doing that I'd create anyone you need for a uni.

Rob Morris · 06-27-2013, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWillisTheMan

You can always make them yourself, if you don't like doing that I'd create anyone you need for a uni.

Thats a great offer thank you, McGuigan v Nelson is the one I would like to do next the most. By my reckoning, from the current database, McGuigan would have 9 fights upto mid 1986, Nelson only 6.

PWillisTheMan · 06-27-2013, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Morris

Thats a great offer thank you, McGuigan v Nelson is the one I would like to do next the most. By my reckoning, from the current database, McGuigan would have 9 fights upto mid 1986, Nelson only 6.

I'm driving my Dad from PA to Tx on Sunday and won't be returning until Mid-July, but I'll bang that out for you when I get back. The records will have a better feel for you if someone slips up along the way.

Rob Morris · 06-27-2013, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWillisTheMan

I'm driving my Dad from PA to Tx on Sunday and won't be returning until Mid-July, but I'll bang that out for you when I get back. The records will have a better feel for you if someone slips up along the way.

Cheers dude, that really is above and beyond! There's no hurry though, have a safe trip

PWillisTheMan · 06-27-2013, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Morris

Cheers dude, that really is above and beyond! There's no hurry though, have a safe trip

Just send me a list of who you have (it seems that's less than who you need), because I may already have some of them in my database and if I checked my base as yours I might skip some of them.

Rob Morris · 06-28-2013, 01:03 PM

Other fights I have thought of:

Ray Mancini v Hector Camacho, circa late - mid 84. Not when they did fight in real life because both were well past their best.

Roy Jones v Dariusz Michalczewski

Vitali Klitschko v Wladimir Klitschko - not strictly within the criteria but intriguing.

06-18-2013, 06:22 AM	#1
Rob Morris All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Liverpool, England Posts: 600	Big Fights That Never Happened Apologies for the lousy thread title. When I have the time I am using the new version to recreate big fights that never happened, the first one being Lennox Lewis v Riddick Bowe. The way I do it is I have both set at career stage Prime as I want them both in the Prime when they fight and it also gives them an advantage as they advance through their careers as I want them, if possible, to be undefeated when they actually fight. What I do is look at their actual records (printing them off Boxrec if necessary) and then have them fight the same opponent over the same number of rounds the fight was actually scheduled, the same date and if possible the same location. Obviously the opponent has to be in the TBCB database. So in this example, the first opponent for Lewis who is in the database is Ossie Ocasio, so that is Lewis’s first fight, an 8 rounder v Ossie Ocasio, Bowe’s first opponent is his real life pro debut, a 4 rounder v Lionel Butler. In this example I plan to stop around 1993, 1994 as that is when there was a lot of talk of Lewis and Bowe meeting. Currently I am at the midway point of 1990, Lewis is 1-0 (1), a first round TKO over the afore mentioned Ocasio, Bowe by contrast is 6-0 (4). I reckon by the time I get to 1993 or mid 1994, Lewis will have had around 14 fights, Bowe 18 or 19. Last edited by Rob Morris; 06-18-2013 at 06:25 AM.

06-19-2013, 04:39 AM	#3
Rob Morris All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Liverpool, England Posts: 600	Another reason for doing it like this is because I don't want Lewis and Bowe to fight when their records are 0-0, I want a bit of background, story if you like. Once I get to a point where Bowe v Lewis was seriously talked about as happening (which IIRC was around mid 93 to 94) I will stop and make the fight. There is no complex formula here, its just all in my head really!! There are plenty of other fights like this you could do, but Lewis v Bowe was an obvious one to me and its easy to do as they only fought in the one division unlike say, Mayweather v Pacquiao, who fought in multiple divisions which would mean changing ratings. Lewis is now 2-0 (2) both first round wins. Bowe is 7-0 (4) having just edged past a post-prime Pinklon Thomas on a 10 round points decision. Last edited by Rob Morris; 06-19-2013 at 04:40 AM.

06-19-2013, 09:44 PM	#8
Infinity Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Anderson, CA Posts: 3,453	Looking interesting Rob, will be following for sure.. __________________ *Infinity Boxing Association* *All Time Greatest Tourney - Infinity Style* All Time Greatest Tourney - Infinity Style - Teams *Dream Fights*

06-20-2013, 07:52 AM	#9
Rob Morris All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Liverpool, England Posts: 600	As suspected Bowe struggled with Tony Tubbs drawing over 10 rounds, although my gut instinct replaying the bout was that he had just done enough. The real life bout was close as well, I remember reading that some observers thought Tubbs had won. In the sim Bowe had an easier time with Rodolfo Marin, winning by 6th round KO to take his record to 12-0-1 (9). Lewis by contrast dispatched Glenn McCrory in 3, then KO'd Tyrell Biggs in 7 to up his record to 7-0 (7). Next up Bowe has Bruce Seldon, Lewis faces Levi Billups. Last edited by Rob Morris; 06-20-2013 at 08:17 AM.

06-18-2013, 02:59 PM	#2
bob_bask Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,387	Sounds interesting. Sure they'll be lots of suggestions for this one. Like first pick, can't wait read how the fight gets made too.

06-19-2013, 01:13 PM	#4
bob_bask Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,387	Understand and like your reasoning behind simulating all their bouts up to that period. Find it feels a bit hollow simulating a fight without some type of story going on. With guys that didn't meet purely from same division. Only the obvious heavyweights ones spring to mind immediately.

06-19-2013, 01:20 PM	#5
Rob Morris All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Liverpool, England Posts: 600	Does this prove how accurate the rating in TBCB are? In their latest fights Riddick Bowe beat Tony Morrison by KO1 in 2:43 in TBCB In real life the result was Bowe KO1 in 2:20 Lennox Lewis beat Gary Mason by KO7 in 0:33 in TBCB In real life the result was Lewis by TKO7 in 0:44 Not just getting the rounds right but almost the time!

06-19-2013, 04:27 PM	#6
bob_bask Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,387	That's accuracy for you. How did Bowe do with Cooper?

06-19-2013, 05:01 PM	#7
Rob Morris All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Liverpool, England Posts: 600	Bowe's results so far: Lionel Butler W4 Garing Lane W4 Lorenzo Canady TKO 5 Mike Acey KO 4 Garing Lane KO 4 Art Card TKO 4 Art Tucker TKO 7 Pinklon Thomas W10 Bert Cooper KO 3 Tony Morrison KO 1 Tyrell Biggs TKO 9 Record 11-0 (8 KO's). Next up for Bowe is Tony Tubbs, a tricky assignment. Lewis's record so far Ossie Ocasio TKO 1 Mike Acey TKO 1 Jean-Maurice Chanet KO 4 Gary Mason KO 7 Mike Weaver TKO 1 Record 5-0 (5 KO's). Next up for Lewis is Glenn McCrory.

06-21-2013, 04:55 AM	#10
Rob Morris All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Liverpool, England Posts: 600	Bowe surprisingly struggled a bit with Seldon, winning a 10 round decision, 96-93 on all cards, moving his record to 13-0-1 (9). Lewis meanwhile dominated and then knocked out the normally teak tough Levi Billups in round 5, upping his record to 8-0 (8). Next up for Bowe is Elijah Tillery, whilst Lewis has a less demanding task in Mike Dixon.

06-22-2013, 04:55 PM	#11
Rob Morris All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Liverpool, England Posts: 600	Bowe decisioned Tillery with a fairly comfortable 12 round decision whilst Lewis dispatched Mike Dixon with ease in 2 rounds. Bowe is now 14-0-1 (9) and has gone the distance in 3 of his last 4 bouts. Lewis's record is still a perfect one, 9-0 (9). Next up for Bowe is Tillery again, whilst Lewis has his most dangerous assignment to date, a 12 rounder v Razor Ruddock.

06-26-2013, 12:34 PM	#14
Rob Morris All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Liverpool, England Posts: 600	The latest results see Bowe stop Elijah Tillery in 4 rounds in the return whilst Lewis overcame a shaky first round to stop Razor Ruddock in round 8. Bowe needs to catch up to make this chronologically correct so he will have 3 bouts next with the first up being Everett Martin.

06-28-2013, 01:03 PM	#20
Rob Morris All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Liverpool, England Posts: 600	Other fights I have thought of: Ray Mancini v Hector Camacho, circa late - mid 84. Not when they did fight in real life because both were well past their best. Roy Jones v Dariusz Michalczewski Vitali Klitschko v Wladimir Klitschko - not strictly within the criteria but intriguing.