What Do You Do With Accused/Known PED Users in Your Game?

[Gil Thorp]

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

So during the 13 year period encompassing the steroid era there were more 50 homer seasons(24) than there were in the other 97 years(21) If you don't think it was steroids I have a bridge to sell ya

And 2008-2012 50+ seasons 1.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Instant lifetime bans for all PED users.

So long Lance Armstrong!

Okay, kidding aside, what about other forms of 'cheating'? Do they deserve a similar level of punishment? Say, for example, using a corked bat or a pitcher using various tricks to deface the ball.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

The 97 years outside the steroid era
70+ homers: 0
60-69 homers: 2
50-59 homers: 19

The 13 year(1993-2007) steroid era
70+ homers: 2
60-69 homers: 4
50-59 homers: 18 times

Correlation is not causation.

As I mentioned before, what also happened from 1993-2007? Four expansion clubs were added, including one at an altitude that saw many home runs hit in its park. Thirteen* new ballparks were opened, a rate of park replacement unprecedented in major league history (the figure goes to fifteen parks if you include the new fields built in Chicago and Baltimore just prior to 1993). How have you controlled for these occurrences in your statistical "analysis"? What about other possibilities, such as changes to the ball? (MLB typically denies it makes any changes to the ball, but it is a possible influence that can't be entirely discounted.)

*Does not include the parks built for the expansion teams.

[Gil Thorp]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Correlation is not causation.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Correlation is not causation.

As I mentioned before, what also happened from 1993-2007? Four expansion clubs were added, including one at an altitude that saw many home runs hit in its park. Thirteen new ballparks were opened, a rate of park replacement unprecedented in major league history (the figure goes to fifteen parks if you include the new fields built in Chicago and Baltimore just prior to 1993). How have you controlled for these occurrences in your statistical "analysis"? What about other possibilities, such as changes to the ball? (MLB typically denies it makes any changes to the ball, but it is a possible influence that can't be entirely discounted.)

Don't forget the strike zone. Pitchers were basically forced to gut the ball during this period.........unless ones name was Maddux, Glavine or Smoltz

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Don't forget the strike zone. Pitchers were basically forced to gut the ball during this period.........unless ones name was Maddux, Glavine or Smoltz

That raises another point. Were hitters the only ones using performance-enhancing substances? Did pitchers abstain from the practice? If they didn't, then shouldn't pitchers have seen some increase in their statistics as well? Or is it that PEDs benefit hitters more than pitchers? If so, why? Surely a PED that allows a hitter to hit a home run that otherwise would not have been a home run would allow a pitcher to throw a fastball faster than he otherwise could. In all the talk about PEDs there has, as far as I can tell, been very little examination of the pitching side of the equation.

[PhillieFever]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

That raises another point. Were hitters the only ones using performance-enhancing substances? Did pitchers abstain from the practice? If they didn't, then shouldn't pitchers have seen some increase in their statistics as well? Or is it that PEDs benefit hitters more than pitchers? If so, why? Surely a PED that allows a hitter to hit a home run that otherwise would not have been a home run would allow a pitcher to throw a fastball faster than he otherwise could. In all the talk about PEDs there has, as far as I can tell, been very little examination of the pitching side of the equation.

Listen you can make all the excuses you want and continue to apply the blindfold. How do you explain the last four(no five) seasons, exactly one player with a 50 homer season. Same number of teams, same Coors Field, Same Ballparks(just about). At this point how someone can continue to assert that steroids had no effect on hitting astounds me, I guess P.T. Barnum had it right.

[Leo_The_Lip]

To answer the original question, I solve this issue by putting all the cheats where they belong: I enter commissioner mode and force a trade to the Phillies.

[Gil Thorp]

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

How do you explain the last four seasons, exactly one player with a 50 homer season.

Actually, five seasons.

[ihatenames]

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

How do you explain the last four seasons, exactly one player with a 50 homer season.

Not to get into the steriod argument but one reason is simply better pitchers. Pitchers are striking out more hitters then ever before and the walk rate is the lowest since at least the early 80s. The strikeout to walks ratio is the highest it's ever been. In other words, pitchers are really good right now.

Personally I think the baseball itself is more to blame for those homerun totals than steriods. I think the baseball was juiced.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

So long Lance Armstrong!

Okay, kidding aside, what about other forms of 'cheating'? Do they deserve a similar level of punishment? Say, for example, using a corked bat or a pitcher using various tricks to deface the ball.

Gambling does, and drug use. If the other form of cheating is premeditated and done outside of the game itself - injections of HGH, steroids, etc. - in an attempt to cheat and defraud the game, their team ($$$), and the fans, then ban the bastards. This isn't using a corked bat or a scuffed ball, this is premeditated evil designed to cheat people out of millions of dollars and to turn the national pastime into a joke.

I only say to ban then for life because we can't legally hang them.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

Listen you can make all the excuses you want and continue to apply the blindfold. How do you explain the last four seasons, exactly one player with a 50 homer season. Same number of teams, same Coors Field, Same Ballparks(just about). At this point how someone can continue to assert that steroids had no effect on hitting astounds me, I guess P.T. Barnum had it right.

You are correct, sir. The Juiced Era is over. Hopefully the MLB will suspend Braun, A-Rod and the other roiders for 100 games and make a clear example.

They ought to be banned. 100 games is a very light punishment.

[Tekneek]

What happens to them in the game? They serve their suspensions, get big contracts, keep hitting/throwing the ball hard. That's what happens to them in my OOTP games.

[PhillieFever]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

What happens to them in the game? They serve their suspensions, get big contracts, keep hitting/throwing the ball hard. That's what happens to them in my OOTP games.

Getting back to the OP, I've never actually seen someone suspended for PED's in game, does it happen? If so is the punishment consistent with real life?

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

Getting back to the OP, I've never actually seen someone suspended for PED's in game, does it happen? If so is the punishment consistent with real life?

I consider it part of the "drug suspensions" item in the setup, personally. I don't recall seeing one longer than 10 games, though. They take a hit in popularity.

[thehef]

Exactly when did the steroid/PED era begin and end? Who were the users? How should they be punished, if at all? What about other forms of cheating - how should it be handled?

And to Charlie Hough's overall gripes about modern-day pitcher usage (which I happen to agree wholeheartedly with)...

To all of these questions, I say you've gotta like that you can answer them for yourself - by any criteria you want - in OOTP.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by elfsutton

I let them play and have done with it. Seriously, someone said it in a post, and I have heard the arguements many times and disagree with them all. Because you take the steriods does NOT in any way improve your ability to play this game. It would have to be prove beyond a shadow of a doubt. I have been a Pirates fan since way way before now. I saw Barry as a rookie and watched him start his career and then watched him turn into the bomber. If the steroids helped him, how could it not have been his training regiment. Lifting, training, all the things he might have done that other than the steroids might have done the same thing.

The one thing people forget though about the PEDs era. People went to watch and only cared after. One of the revolving snippets is a quote by Bonds about how they boo him but when he gets to the plate, the cameras come out all over. It is sad and true.

IMHO, I think the owners knew more than they let on and let it go to help flll the seats. How many more seats did they fill during the McGwire/Sosa hr battles? How many people think it would have been the same if that mini drama was not happening.

I havent really considered it a 'bad' thing. Like someone else said, this is something that has always been part of baseball, there will and always has been someone trying to get by with something, be it vasoline on the ball or hgh in the morning coffee, wont change, its the nature of the game.

None of us knew that they were on steroids at the time. Steroids does help but steroids alone won;t do it. Neither will strength training by itself. The combo and PEDS and strength training mad Bonds superhuman. I am sure the managers GM's & owners all knew but we can;t bash them can we like we can bash Bonds, Clemens & Palmeiro.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

So long Lance Armstrong!

Okay, kidding aside, what about other forms of 'cheating'? Do they deserve a similar level of punishment? Say, for example, using a corked bat or a pitcher using various tricks to deface the ball.

To a degree yes, they should have. Sosa will not go into teh HOF anytime soon. He has never been caught usings PEDS, but he has been caught using a corked bat. Twice I want to say or maybe that was just Albert Belle. People will always find ways to cheat, no matter what it is. The question is what to do with them when they are caught.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

Listen you can make all the excuses you want and continue to apply the blindfold. How do you explain the last four(no five) seasons, exactly one player with a 50 homer season. Same number of teams, same Coors Field, Same Ballparks(just about). At this point how someone can continue to assert that steroids had no effect on hitting astounds me, I guess P.T. Barnum had it right.

Some parks are actually smaller. Citifield, Citizens Bank Park, New Yankee Stadium, SAFECO (this year), Marlins Field, New Busch yet a decrease in 50+ HR seasons.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

Getting back to the OP, I've never actually seen someone suspended for PED's in game, does it happen? If so is the punishment consistent with real life?

What Tek said they are all part of teh drug suspensions of 10 games. I ban then for 50 whether its weed and PEDS the storyline I dont think says what it was.