The Civil War

[goroyals]

I'm finishing up a test run for a dynasty I've been wanting to do for a long time, a dynamic fictional history of baseball starting from the invention of the game. I think I've got good settings for the in-game stuff (as good as one can do trying to sim this period at least) and I've created and refined some charts to sim the off-field stuff and the dynamic part of the story. But I'm kind of at a loss on what to do about the Civil War. How do you guys handle a bunch of players missing multiple seasons? Isn't there an in-game option for WWII? Is that only WWII and only for historical leagues?

I'm thinking of setting up another league called "Civil War" and having teams like "Army of the Potomac" and "Andersonville Prisoners" and having them play like 1 game a season. Really just to have players miss the duration of the war, and have a more interesting backstory for individual guys. Since my CPU with OOTP killed over, and I can't test this, does anyone know if creating and then deleting such a league will mess up the universe as a whole?

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by goroyals

I'm finishing up a test run for a dynasty I've been wanting to do for a long time, a dynamic fictional history of baseball starting from the invention of the game. I think I've got good settings for the in-game stuff (as good as one can do trying to sim this period at least) and I've created and refined some charts to sim the off-field stuff and the dynamic part of the story. But I'm kind of at a loss on what to do about the Civil War. How do you guys handle a bunch of players missing multiple seasons? Isn't there an in-game option for WWII? Is that only WWII and only for historical leagues?

Man, you are going way back! Well, you the earliest you could be playing historically, if that is what you are trying to do, is 1871 so this is moot but I thought I would call your attention to it anyway:

Out of the Park Baseball Manual (see below)

But since you are probably playing fictionally, I think the best you can do is use the Retire/Unretire feature as commissioner. Except, when you are talking about the Civil War and "revisionist realism," you will be retiring a lot of guys for the war years and a whole lot of them will be permanently.

Going back to the historical progression option, see the bottom entry:

[joefromchicago]

Right now, I believe military service in fictional leagues is handled by story lines, and you should be able to write story lines that would handle military service during the civil war.

Also, remember that, in the north, military service was nowhere near universal, and many well-to-do men were able to avoid the draft through the purchase of replacements. That was certainly the case with many of the middle-class members of the baseball clubs that existed in the New York area during that time. So although you should allow for some players to miss playing time due to the war, don't expect everyone to enlist.

[goroyals]

I am going all the way back to 1839, and the famous Doubleday myth, which in this universe is actually true. I am indeed doing all fictional players, and the missed seasons function you pointed out is for historical leagues only, I think.

I use the commissioner retire/unretire function already to simulate the players of the amateur and semi-pro days finding better jobs away from the game. That was my original thought here as well, but I'm thinking about trying this whole "war league" idea out for a couple of reasons. First is that I won't have to do as much work tracking who's in the service as I probably would with the forced retire button. I can just delete the Civil War league before 1866, and bam those guys will back in the FA pool. Two is the storyline aspect. Since this is going to be in the dynasty thread, I think it'll be good fodder for updates. Like, how cool would it be to form the first pro team a few years later and then see that one guy was a Confederate, and another fought for the Union? Tie that into how the country is trying to heal, and how baseball is catching on nationally for a good story. I just don't know if creating then deleting this league is going to mess up a bunch of stuff globally or be a major PITA.

I suppose the only way to find out is a test. I'll probably install my second license on my girlfriends hijacked machine haha. I can't wait until I get a new one myself, an OOTP addict needs his fix.

If the results are promising, I can't see why this method wouldn't work for anyone wanting to do a "mass exodus" in their league.

[goroyals]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Right now, I believe military service in fictional leagues is handled by story lines, and you should be able to write story lines that would handle military service during the civil war.

Also, remember that, in the north, military service was nowhere near universal, and many well-to-do men were able to avoid the draft through the purchase of replacements. That was certainly the case with many of the middle-class members of the baseball clubs that existed in the New York area during that time. So although you should allow for some players to miss playing time due to the war, don't expect everyone to enlist.

How does one go about editing the storylines? I had them off because a charity golf tournament, public affair, etc was anachronistic here. But I had no idea I could manipulate all that...

And for who goes, I did some basic research on that. From what I figured up, about 25% of able bodied males served at some point for the north, much higher for the south, as you mentioned.

I'm planning on rolling 1-100 (random.org makes this so easy, I can do a whole team at once) for every player in the league before each season 1861-1865. A player volunteers/gets drafted on 1-4, stays 5-100. Then, I'll commissioner assign them to a team in the war league based on their hometown. I'll probably roll again with the same percentages once everyone is moved, this time for all the players in the war league, to affect casualties. If my math is correct, that means I have about 20% of players at least do some service, of varying lengths, with about a fifth of that group unable to return to the game after the war. It would also be neat to have some guys come up who were generated in the war league, who for my purposes learned the game in camp or something.

[1998 Yankees]

I think you meant this will be in the dynasty forum (not thread)? If so, please post a link here when you're ready. I wouldn't mind following; it sounds like an interesting idea.

[goroyals]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

I think you meant this will be in the dynasty forum (not thread)? If so, please post a link here when you're ready. I wouldn't mind following; it sounds like an interesting idea.

You are correct. I'm afraid that would be thread stealing on an epic level.

And will do, once I start the live run. I'll probably throw up the results from my test of the Civil War in this thread first, in case anyone is curious as to how that goes over.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by goroyals

How does one go about editing the storylines? I had them off because a charity golf tournament, public affair, etc was anachronistic here. But I had no idea I could manipulate all that...

Yes, you should be able to write your own story lines. I'm afraid I can't be of much help on the details, though, as I don't have v.13.

Originally Posted by goroyals

And for who goes, I did some basic research on that. From what I figured up, about 25% of able bodied males served at some point for the north, much higher for the south, as you mentioned.

Quite possibly, but then the men who were playing baseball at that time weren't really representative of the general population. Whereas the majority of Americans lived in rural areas and participated in an agricultural economy, the majority of baseball players lived in urban areas and participated in a commercial economy. I'd be very surprised if 25% of the Knickerbocker Club, for instance, served in the civil war.

And, of course, southerners really didn't play baseball at all until they learned the game from northerners -- often when they were serving time in northern POW camps.

Originally Posted by goroyals

I'm planning on rolling 1-100 (random.org makes this so easy, I can do a whole team at once) for every player in the league before each season 1861-1865. A player volunteers/gets drafted on 1-4, stays 5-100. Then, I'll commissioner assign them to a team in the war league based on their hometown. I'll probably roll again with the same percentages once everyone is moved, this time for all the players in the war league, to affect casualties. If my math is correct, that means I have about 20% of players at least do some service, of varying lengths, with about a fifth of that group unable to return to the game after the war. It would also be neat to have some guys come up who were generated in the war league, who for my purposes learned the game in camp or something.

Well, if that's the route you're taking, then story lines won't do you any good. As mentioned by 1998 Yankees, you'll have to go into commissioner mode and retire/unretire the selected players. I did that in my dynasty with enemy alien players who were interned for the duration of the world wars. I don't know of any other way of doing what you want to do.

[goroyals]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Quite possibly, but then the men who were playing baseball at that time weren't really representative of the general population. Whereas the majority of Americans lived in rural areas and participated in an agricultural economy, the majority of baseball players lived in urban areas and participated in a commercial economy. I'd be very surprised if 25% of the Knickerbocker Club, for instance, served in the civil war.

And, of course, southerners really didn't play baseball at all until they learned the game from northerners -- often when they were serving time in northern POW camps.

To your first point, yes, I may have to tone down the percentages. Maybe from the 20% I was thinking to 10 or 15%. I am trying to reflect the "gentlemanly" image that ruled baseball pre-ACW. That said, a review of the amateur National Association standings during the war does show that the sports' organized growth slowed from 1861-1865. Maybe it wasn't from guys going off, but I don't think there was a lot of public support in that era for casual sports during wartime.

As to your second, demographic factors are one thing I've decided I'm going to have but limited control over for the duration of the dynasty. It would be awesome if I could manipulate these things with ease, but going from a league of all-Caucasian dudes (with era appropriate names) from NYC and surrounding areas to a universe full of players from all over would IMO be so time consuming as to prevent me from ever getting there in the first place. This means that I have guys from all over, including the South, in the league at the beginning of 1861. Perhaps I overlooked the regions feature in 13 here?

The compromise is that using the in-game editor to manipulate nations' baseball quality, one can at least control where the foreigners come from. For this era, I have foreigner percentage set at 5% and those guys will come from Great Britain, Canada, Ireland, with a few from mainland Europe (based on immigration data).

That is interesting about your league and internment. I'm assuming it was for WWII with players from Axis nations? Did you have to mess with the demographic stuff (world_default) a lot in that universe?

[goroyals]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Well, if that's the route you're taking, then story lines won't do you any good. As mentioned by 1998 Yankees, you'll have to go into commissioner mode and retire/unretire the selected players. I did that in my dynasty with enemy alien players who were interned for the duration of the world wars. I don't know of any other way of doing what you want to do.

I see now that this was in your Baseball Alliance. I skimmed the relevant pages for WWI already, and it seems like you did a lot of work there. Thanks for replying to this thread, then, and sharing your expertise. What changes did you make to the game mechanics or by hand, if any (e.g. you mentioned reduced attendance and the one guy with an injury volunteering)?

Great looking dynasty there btw, can't believe I haven't read it. I'll be trying to catch up now!

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by goroyals

The compromise is that using the in-game editor to manipulate nations' baseball quality, one can at least control where the foreigners come from. For this era, I have foreigner percentage set at 5% and those guys will come from Great Britain, Canada, Ireland, with a few from mainland Europe (based on immigration data).

You may not like the results. The Irish first names database (18) contains a lot of Gaelic Irish names that really only became commonplace after Irish independence, whereas Irish immigrants in the US would typically have English first names -- thus "Patrick" and "Dermot" rather than "Padraig" and "Diarmaid." The other foreign databases have comparable problems that require some tweaking to get them "Americanized" (e.g. getting rid of diacritical marks in German and French names).

Originally Posted by goroyals

That is interesting about your league and internment. I'm assuming it was for WWII with players from Axis nations? Did you have to mess with the demographic stuff (world_default) a lot in that universe?

For the war years I set the baseball quality for enemy nations to "non-existent" in the in-game editor. That's really the only thing I did besides retiring the German and Italian players.

Originally Posted by goroyals

I skimmed the relevant pages for WWI already, and it seems like you did a lot of work there. Thanks for replying to this thread, then, and sharing your expertise. What changes did you make to the game mechanics or by hand, if any (e.g. you mentioned reduced attendance and the one guy with an injury volunteering)?

I reduced the attendance during the war years by reducing the average attendance number in the league financials tab. I added all that stuff about the player volunteering for WWI -- he suffered a career-ending injury and I wanted to play that up. I did have some American players drafted into the military during WWII, but that was exclusively through story lines.

Originally Posted by goroyals

Great looking dynasty there btw, can't believe I haven't read it. I'll be trying to catch up now!

Thanks. Glad you like it.

[olivertheorem]

One question, and it may be irrelevant as I may have missed something.

If you roll 1-100, and only pull the guy into the war at 1-4, isn't that only a 4% rate, instead of 25%. At least, it's a 4% chance on each player, which should work out to about 4% overall.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by olivertheorem

One question, and it may be irrelevant as I may have missed something.

If you roll 1-100, and only pull the guy into the war at 1-4, isn't that only a 4% rate, instead of 25%. At least, it's a 4% chance on each player, which should work out to about 4% overall.

I think the idea is that each player has a 4% chance each year of going into the military. Over the course of about four years, that gives each player about a 20% (.195) chance of going to war at some point.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by goroyals

As to your second, demographic factors are one thing I've decided I'm going to have but limited control over for the duration of the dynasty. It would be awesome if I could manipulate these things with ease, but going from a league of all-Caucasian dudes (with era appropriate names) from NYC and surrounding areas to a universe full of players from all over would IMO be so time consuming as to prevent me from ever getting there in the first place. This means that I have guys from all over, including the South, in the league at the beginning of 1861. Perhaps I overlooked the regions feature in 13 here?

That was on my mind when I came back here to check on this thread (which is cool to me, combining my loves of baseball and history, and considering it is the sesquicentennial - I had to Google that word - of the Civil War). Have you considered using the regions feature to have primarily northerners on northern teams and southerners on southern teams? Maybe that would not be realistic. Or would it?