More scouting frustration - Page 3

PSUColonel · 07-19-2011, 01:19 AM

I would just rather depend on stats to determine whi I think the best prospects and players are, and not have these lists "absolute" due to true ratings...I'd rather simulate opinion..even if that opinion is very accurate in regard to highly ranked players and prospects, and gradually be different/less accurate as you continue down the list.

PSUColonel · 07-19-2011, 01:37 AM

The other part of this issue is that your team prospect reports are also based on true ratings....these reports should be reflective of your scouting director's opinion.

RonCo · 07-19-2011, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I would just rather depend on stats to determine whi I think the best prospects and players are, and not have these lists "absolute" due to true ratings...I'd rather simulate opinion..even if that opinion is very accurate in regard to highly ranked players and prospects, and gradually be different/less accurate as you continue down the list.

I understand your view and I generally agree with you that it needs to be changed, but again, it's not an "absolute" rating unless you think Markus (BA) has done the absolute most outstanding job of calculating an overall value. Personally, I doubt it a lot. It's just one of many "absolutes" that could be arrived at.

Biggio509 · 07-19-2011, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

The other part of this issue is that your team prospect reports are also based on true ratings....these reports should be reflective of your scouting director's opinion.

Wasn't this changed in the latest patch?

PSUColonel · 07-19-2011, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggio509

Wasn't this changed in the latest patch?

not sure...if it was, I was unaware of it. All I know is that the team prospect reports coincide exactly with the BA top prospect rankings.

Biggio509 · 07-19-2011, 11:20 AM

Maybe not I thought I had read something about but I looked at the latest patch updates and the patch before that and did not see it in the features. So I guess I was wrong.

injury log · 07-19-2011, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

You are wrong. I can basically sit here and tell you who the best player and/or prospect in my league is based on true ratings.

But anyone can do the exact same thing in real life. It's not like people disagree that Mike Trout or Bryce Harper are monster prospects. I don't see what on earth is the problem here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I really hope Markus will reconsider this in the next patch. I am not sure how to bring it to his attention since 1- he's on vacation, and 2- I really can't fill out a bug report since it's not a bug. But I cannot emphasize enough how much of a cheat this is.

So many things I can't list them all, but I'll start:

* if you don't like the reports, don't look at the reports. Don't ask Markus to change a feature that no one besides you seems to have any complaints about;

* how is any of this a 'cheat'? Something is a 'cheat' if it gives you an unfair advantage. As far as I can tell, everyone has access to the same reports.

* no prospect ranking, even if it's entirely based on true ratings, could ever be accurate. Which prospect is better, the 17 year old with 1/1/1 current ratings and 9/9/9 potentials, or the 24 year old with 7/7/7 current ratings and 8/8/8 potentials? How about the 8/2/8 Gold Glove shortstop or the 7/9/7 firstbaseman who can't field? Not to mention ranking pitchers against batters. They're all judgement calls, and you don't need to agree with the game's rankings - I certainly don't;

* The reports use stats and ratings in combination anyway.

PSUColonel · 07-19-2011, 09:15 PM

I think OldFatGuy surmised the issue pretty well in post #31

PSUColonel · 07-19-2011, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injury log

* The reports use stats and ratings in combination anyway.

Check out post #4 in this thread. Follow the link, and from there read post #162.

aewin · 07-20-2011, 05:26 AM

I have posted the results of some testing on this issue (for OOTP11 anyway) in this thread:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3176364

injury log · 07-20-2011, 05:28 AM

You don't seem to understand how the AI uses scouting.

aewin · 07-20-2011, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injury log

You don't seem to understand how the AI uses scouting.

Not sure if this is directed at me, but if it is then you should read my post again as it makes no comment on how AI uses scouting, it is purely to do with how the Top 100/20 lists are constructed.

injury log · 07-20-2011, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aewin

Not sure if this is directed at me, but if it is then you should read my post again as it makes no comment on how AI uses scouting, it is purely to do with how the Top 100/20 lists are constructed.

No, not directed to you - I was replying to PSU's post asking me to revisit some other threads.

PSUColonel · 07-21-2011, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injury log

No, not directed to you - I was replying to PSU's post asking me to revisit some other threads.

How does it use scouting? BTW I am not being sarcastic...just curious...I am not sure what you mean.

robc · 07-21-2011, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

How does it use scouting? BTW I am not being sarcastic...just curious...I am not sure what you mean.

Injurylog can probably give you more info then me. The AI doesn't get scouting reports as a human does for performance reasons, but they do see 'blurred' ratings to create some fog of war. I'm not sure how accurate they are or if it depends on the scouting accuracy settings.

Biggio509 · 07-21-2011, 11:00 AM

From what I understand AI scouting works like your scouting in the sense that quality of the scout and scouting budgets do mean something for the AI blur but as you mentioned they don't receive scouting reports like we do. I assume it is a more on demand information type of thing. When the AI has to run an algorithm the "scouting" is done in other words the blur factor is applied somehow in the mathematical formula. IIRC, Markus has stated the AI process is a bit more streamlined to make the blur quicker to calculate.

PSUColonel · 07-21-2011, 11:01 AM

This is likely true, but it does not address the issue of the BA ratings, and top player ratings.

Biggio509 · 07-21-2011, 11:05 AM

No it does not. They are a completely different issue. To my knowledge the AI does not use these in any way. They are a tool for the human manager. You can use them if you feel as I do it should be no surprise who the best prospects in the draft and minors are or you can not look at them if you feel it is cheating. As to the issue some of brought up about it possibly being too easy to get the top prospects if you use the list then make trades for them that is really more a trade AI issue than scouting.

Note, I do think the AI should be using the algorithm generated for top prospects in the draft and when dealing with trades. I am not sure if it does.

injury log · 07-21-2011, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

This is likely true, but it does not address the issue of the BA ratings, and top player ratings.

Well, if you think the AI doesn't know who the good prospects are, try to find a guy on an AI team who is a top prospect that the AI is willing to give away for next to nothing.

PSUColonel · 07-21-2011, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injury log

Well, if you think the AI doesn't know who the good prospects are, try to find a guy on an AI team who is a top prospect that the AI is willing to give away for next to nothing.

There are none...this is likely because the AI does know who is good, regardless of scouted ratings

07-19-2011, 01:37 AM	#42
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,104	The other part of this issue is that your team prospect reports are also based on true ratings....these reports should be reflective of your scouting director's opinion. Last edited by PSUColonel; 07-19-2011 at 03:10 AM.

07-20-2011, 05:26 AM	#50
aewin Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 447	I have posted the results of some testing on this issue (for OOTP11 anyway) in this thread: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3176364 Last edited by aewin; 07-20-2011 at 05:28 AM.

07-21-2011, 11:05 AM	#58
Biggio509 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,027	No it does not. They are a completely different issue. To my knowledge the AI does not use these in any way. They are a tool for the human manager. You can use them if you feel as I do it should be no surprise who the best prospects in the draft and minors are or you can not look at them if you feel it is cheating. As to the issue some of brought up about it possibly being too easy to get the top prospects if you use the list then make trades for them that is really more a trade AI issue than scouting. Note, I do think the AI should be using the algorithm generated for top prospects in the draft and when dealing with trades. I am not sure if it does. Last edited by Biggio509; 07-21-2011 at 11:09 AM.

07-19-2011, 01:19 AM	#41
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,104	I would just rather depend on stats to determine whi I think the best prospects and players are, and not have these lists "absolute" due to true ratings...I'd rather simulate opinion..even if that opinion is very accurate in regard to highly ranked players and prospects, and gradually be different/less accurate as you continue down the list.

07-19-2011, 11:20 AM	#46
Biggio509 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,027	Maybe not I thought I had read something about but I looked at the latest patch updates and the patch before that and did not see it in the features. So I guess I was wrong.

07-19-2011, 09:15 PM	#48
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,104	I think OldFatGuy surmised the issue pretty well in post #31

07-20-2011, 05:28 AM	#51
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	You don't seem to understand how the AI uses scouting.

07-21-2011, 11:00 AM	#56
Biggio509 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,027	From what I understand AI scouting works like your scouting in the sense that quality of the scout and scouting budgets do mean something for the AI blur but as you mentioned they don't receive scouting reports like we do. I assume it is a more on demand information type of thing. When the AI has to run an algorithm the "scouting" is done in other words the blur factor is applied somehow in the mathematical formula. IIRC, Markus has stated the AI process is a bit more streamlined to make the blur quicker to calculate.

07-21-2011, 11:01 AM	#57
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,104	This is likely true, but it does not address the issue of the BA ratings, and top player ratings.