I am a financial moron

LeiterFanatic · 07-07-2011, 01:32 PM

I love baseball and this game but I can never get a handle on money. I am beginning a season with the 1993 Blue Jays and going forward and having a blast. I watched my money for FA and money for extensions but when the offseason rolls around I am busted. I think I have -3 bucks cash. WTF? Is it because that money was eaten up by arbitration contracts? It just seems to me that today I have a surplus and tomorrow I am broke. I can't even get a single free agent because I am so in hock. Shoud I go into the offseason with a 4-5 million dollar cushion no matter what?

Spritze · 07-07-2011, 01:48 PM

It is more than likely the owner whisked your carefully hoarded moneys away. Check to see if you have one of the whisky awayer owners. If so consider yourself thoroughly whisked. Cash get whisked in OOTP as if every team was the Dodgers.

sansterre · 07-07-2011, 01:48 PM

There are two specific places where you'll get waxed pretty bad without it showing up in the financial planning page.

1) Draft pick signing bonuses. These aren't huge, but it's totally possible to throw down 5-10 million on these. The financial screen doesn't show them as a budgeted expense (that I'm aware of) but always try to have extra cash available for this.

2) Arbitration contracts. If you see (from the financial obligations page) that you have players with arbitration coming up next year, brace yourself. Some of these aren't too big a deal, but if you have a super-prospect who is going from his league-minimum contract to his first arbitration contract, get ready to get taken for $10 million easy. Arbitration is impossible to budget for too accurately - it can be a nonfactor or it can ruin you. You simply have to try and set the money aside.

Running precisely even with expenses (not counting the above) is extremely risky, and should only be done for short periods of time, because it's so easy to get backed into a financial corner. You're better off making brief forays into high expenses when you have backup cash to burn, and then backing off once you've burned through. This is another reason why expensive long-term contracts can be problematic.

Also, bear in mind that making the playoffs is worth a lot of money, while being mediocre is worth notably less. So it makes sense to run at a substantial profit until you think that throwing down money will make you a contender. Stretching yourself financially merely to break .500 is a pretty inefficient choice.

Sorry for the ramble, just some thoughts.

LeiterFanatic · 07-07-2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sansterre

There are two specific places where you'll get waxed pretty bad without it showing up in the financial planning page.

1) Draft pick signing bonuses. These aren't huge, but it's totally possible to throw down 5-10 million on these. The financial screen doesn't show them as a budgeted expense (that I'm aware of) but always try to have extra cash available for this.

2) Arbitration contracts. If you see (from the financial obligations page) that you have players with arbitration coming up next year, brace yourself. Some of these aren't too big a deal, but if you have a super-prospect who is going from his league-minimum contract to his first arbitration contract, get ready to get taken for $10 million easy. Arbitration is impossible to budget for too accurately - it can be a nonfactor or it can ruin you. You simply have to try and set the money aside.

Running precisely even with expenses (not counting the above) is extremely risky, and should only be done for short periods of time, because it's so easy to get backed into a financial corner. You're better off making brief forays into high expenses when you have backup cash to burn, and then backing off once you've burned through. This is another reason why expensive long-term contracts can be problematic.

Also, bear in mind that making the playoffs is worth a lot of money, while being mediocre is worth notably less. So it makes sense to run at a substantial profit until you think that throwing down money will make you a contender. Stretching yourself financially merely to break .500 is a pretty inefficient choice.

Sorry for the ramble, just some thoughts.

All of this is true. I think the arbitration contracts killed me. Thank you.

Biggio509 · 07-07-2011, 04:18 PM

One other thing about arbitration is that it uses an arbitration estimate in your budget. In 11 if you signed the guy to an extension the game still took the arbitartaion estimate out of the budget until the arbitration period was over. So player A has an arbitration estimate of 8 million and you sign him for 7 million, the game takes 15 million out of your budget. Well it did in 11, I am not sure about 12. So the day after arbitration you get a slight to big boost in free agent money when the game correctly does the contracts.

It is worth it to try to negotiate extensions for arbitration eligible players. You can often sign them for less than the arbitration demand they are making. On the other hand it is usually larger than the default number the team will ask from the arbitrator. If you do go to arbitration you risk paying the guy his demand though. If he wins depends largely on his season. A guy that did not do so well asking for a big contract is not likely to win while a MVP should always win.

One other thing to note. If you want to get rid of the guy you can withdraw the arbitration offer and he becomes a free agent when free agents file. You can non-tender players you don't want in your organization, eg. a AAA player will likely maybe $600,000 in AAA next year.

LeiterFanatic · 07-07-2011, 05:01 PM

IS there a link or forum post somewhere that explains all of this on one place?

DanP68 · 07-07-2011, 06:11 PM

Running a small market club is difficult. The one piece of advice I would give is to never tie yourself into long contracts. Even with younger players, try to stick to 5 years or less. Older players rarely get more than 2 years from me.

During the FA signing period I try to grab a couple of low priced "need" guys. It might be for defensive purposes, or maybe a platoon bat, etc.

I almost never compete for a superstar FA until late January or early February. At this point a lot of demands start to drop as players get desperate to get signed. I try to find guys age 31 or younger, who will accept 4 years or less and can give me a decent bargain. For example a 4 WAR guy for $10-$14 million per year. That keeps my risk low, so if he totally busts I will not be financially destroyed.

Big T · 07-07-2011, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanP68

Running a small market club is difficult. The one piece of advice I would give is to never tie yourself into long contracts. Even with younger players, try to stick to 5 years or less. Older players rarely get more than 2 years from me.

During the FA signing period I try to grab a couple of low priced "need" guys. It might be for defensive purposes, or maybe a platoon bat, etc.

I almost never compete for a superstar FA until late January or early February. At this point a lot of demands start to drop as players get desperate to get signed. I try to find guys age 31 or younger, who will accept 4 years or less and can give me a decent bargain. For example a 4 WAR guy for $10-$14 million per year. That keeps my risk low, so if he totally busts I will not be financially destroyed.

All good points and I would add one as well.......

Use "team option" for the last year of the contract if you can, it has saved me countless times when dealing with an aging or recently injured pitcher that never came back the same..

LeiterFanatic · 07-08-2011, 07:31 AM

Do older players still drop off precipitously like they used to in older games? I have Joe Carter who is a 50 contact, 55 power guy but his rating has fallen to one star by OSA. He is popular in Toronto but I am leary about giving him a contract.

Jagger · 07-08-2011, 11:27 AM

One solution when you are overextended financially is to trade one or two of your older, high cost players for some cheap, young talent. Getting rid of even one high priced player will often get you out of a financial hole.

Big T · 07-08-2011, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeiterFanatic

Do older players still drop off precipitously like they used to in older games? I have Joe Carter who is a 50 contact, 55 power guy but his rating has fallen to one star by OSA. He is popular in Toronto but I am leary about giving him a contract.

I don't use stars to determine a players value, I use statistics. I have had 0.5 and 1 star players perform well for several years. When I do my renogiations, I use the last 3 years stats to determine trend etc... If Joe is starting to trend downwards, becareful but if he is still productive, think like a GM would... at least it makes it fun for me...

Big T · 07-08-2011, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagger

One solution when you are overextended financially is to trade one or two of your older, high cost players for some cheap, young talent. Getting rid of even one high priced player will often get you out of a financial hole.

Depending on how you have Trading set, I use "hard" and it is difficult to move your older, higher contracts.

fhomess · 07-08-2011, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeiterFanatic

I am a financial moron

Please send $3,000 to my pay pal account and I'll give you some advice in this regard.

GrantDawg · 07-08-2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big T

Depending on how you have Trading set, I use "hard" and it is difficult to move your older, higher contracts.

No joke. "Hard" is hard in this version.

LeiterFanatic · 07-08-2011, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhomess

Please send $3,000 to my pay pal account and I'll give you some advice in this regard.

I'm not THAT big a moron!

Redsfan320 · 07-08-2011, 01:58 PM

On a similar subject, is there anyway to dump huge contracts on (now) crappy veterans? Nobody will trade for them, and I could release them, but I still have to pay them the same, same thing for sending them down, and that's if they accept the demotion. Irritating when I get an e-mail from them demanding a trade- believe me, I am trying my very hardest to trade, I want you gone more than you want to be gone, but nobody wants you- you're highly overpaid crap!

320

LeiterFanatic · 07-08-2011, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redsfan320

On a similar subject, is there anyway to dump huge contracts on (now) crappy veterans? Nobody will trade for them, and I could release them, but I still have to pay them the same, same thing for sending them down, and that's if they accept the demotion. Irritating when I get an e-mail from them demanding a trade- believe me, I am trying my very hardest to trade, I want you gone more than you want to be gone, but nobody wants you- you're highly overpaid crap!

320

Retire them. Retire them all.....

GrantDawg · 07-08-2011, 02:13 PM

Nope. Not unless you ho into commish mode and force retire them. That is something I would like added to the game. "Retirement settlement", so you can pay a guy off to retire and not be saddled with a huge contract for several years on a guy that fell off a cliff.

Biggio509 · 07-08-2011, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redsfan320

On a similar subject, is there anyway to dump huge contracts on (now) crappy veterans?

320

No but I have had occasions where I could trade an overpaid crappy player for another overpaid crappy player with a shorter contract. Some would call it an AI exploit.

The other thing that I do that real teams don't seem to do is if they are in the last year of the contract I just cut them. You are going to pay for them either way. Might as well free a roster spot.

It probably would not work but you could try to waive the player and see if anyone claims him. Unlikely but you never know. I have been presently surprised when I DFAed a guy I was going to cut and waived him and someone actually picked him up. It is always best to waive and DFA a guy who you are going to cut you might get lucky and someone else picks up the contract. I wish OOTP would follow MLB rules here where a player has to be waived before being cut. The AI could sometimes save some money.

DanP68 · 07-19-2011, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeiterFanatic

Do older players still drop off precipitously like they used to in older games? I have Joe Carter who is a 50 contact, 55 power guy but his rating has fallen to one star by OSA. He is popular in Toronto but I am leary about giving him a contract.

As I wrote in another thread, the Star ratings and Scouting Text Synopses are a source of so much frustration for me that I ignore them. I turned off the Star ratings altogether. I don't read the text anymore.

Provided you are playing with Scouting AI on, the ratings you quoted represent the scout's opinion of the player's ability. That is the only information you need.

I use the 1-10 scale and have a player with a near 400 OBP who my scout rates 7 Contact, 6 Gap, 5 Power, 5 Eye - all pretty good ratings. But his Star is "1" and the text says he can't hit major league pitching. What the? Ignore the Stars and the Text. If you don't want ratings "on", look at the stats. If you do want ratings "on", look at the ratings and verify the information with the stats.

07-07-2011, 01:32 PM	#1
LeiterFanatic All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 1,348	I am a financial moron I love baseball and this game but I can never get a handle on money. I am beginning a season with the 1993 Blue Jays and going forward and having a blast. I watched my money for FA and money for extensions but when the offseason rolls around I am busted. I think I have -3 bucks cash. WTF? Is it because that money was eaten up by arbitration contracts? It just seems to me that today I have a surplus and tomorrow I am broke. I can't even get a single free agent because I am so in hock. Shoud I go into the offseason with a 4-5 million dollar cushion no matter what?

07-07-2011, 01:48 PM	#2
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	It is more than likely the owner whisked your carefully hoarded moneys away. Check to see if you have one of the whisky awayer owners. If so consider yourself thoroughly whisked. Cash get whisked in OOTP as if every team was the Dodgers.

07-07-2011, 01:48 PM	#3
sansterre Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 251	There are two specific places where you'll get waxed pretty bad without it showing up in the financial planning page. 1) Draft pick signing bonuses. These aren't huge, but it's totally possible to throw down 5-10 million on these. The financial screen doesn't show them as a budgeted expense (that I'm aware of) but always try to have extra cash available for this. 2) Arbitration contracts. If you see (from the financial obligations page) that you have players with arbitration coming up next year, brace yourself. Some of these aren't too big a deal, but if you have a super-prospect who is going from his league-minimum contract to his first arbitration contract, get ready to get taken for $10 million easy. Arbitration is impossible to budget for too accurately - it can be a nonfactor or it can ruin you. You simply have to try and set the money aside. Running precisely even with expenses (not counting the above) is extremely risky, and should only be done for short periods of time, because it's so easy to get backed into a financial corner. You're better off making brief forays into high expenses when you have backup cash to burn, and then backing off once you've burned through. This is another reason why expensive long-term contracts can be problematic. Also, bear in mind that making the playoffs is worth a lot of money, while being mediocre is worth notably less. So it makes sense to run at a substantial profit until you think that throwing down money will make you a contender. Stretching yourself financially merely to break .500 is a pretty inefficient choice. Sorry for the ramble, just some thoughts.

07-07-2011, 04:18 PM	#5
Biggio509 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,027	One other thing about arbitration is that it uses an arbitration estimate in your budget. In 11 if you signed the guy to an extension the game still took the arbitartaion estimate out of the budget until the arbitration period was over. So player A has an arbitration estimate of 8 million and you sign him for 7 million, the game takes 15 million out of your budget. Well it did in 11, I am not sure about 12. So the day after arbitration you get a slight to big boost in free agent money when the game correctly does the contracts. It is worth it to try to negotiate extensions for arbitration eligible players. You can often sign them for less than the arbitration demand they are making. On the other hand it is usually larger than the default number the team will ask from the arbitrator. If you do go to arbitration you risk paying the guy his demand though. If he wins depends largely on his season. A guy that did not do so well asking for a big contract is not likely to win while a MVP should always win. One other thing to note. If you want to get rid of the guy you can withdraw the arbitration offer and he becomes a free agent when free agents file. You can non-tender players you don't want in your organization, eg. a AAA player will likely maybe $600,000 in AAA next year.

07-07-2011, 05:01 PM	#6
LeiterFanatic All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 1,348	IS there a link or forum post somewhere that explains all of this on one place?

07-07-2011, 06:11 PM	#7
DanP68 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 151	Running a small market club is difficult. The one piece of advice I would give is to never tie yourself into long contracts. Even with younger players, try to stick to 5 years or less. Older players rarely get more than 2 years from me. During the FA signing period I try to grab a couple of low priced "need" guys. It might be for defensive purposes, or maybe a platoon bat, etc. I almost never compete for a superstar FA until late January or early February. At this point a lot of demands start to drop as players get desperate to get signed. I try to find guys age 31 or younger, who will accept 4 years or less and can give me a decent bargain. For example a 4 WAR guy for $10-$14 million per year. That keeps my risk low, so if he totally busts I will not be financially destroyed.

07-08-2011, 07:31 AM	#9
LeiterFanatic All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 1,348	Do older players still drop off precipitously like they used to in older games? I have Joe Carter who is a 50 contact, 55 power guy but his rating has fallen to one star by OSA. He is popular in Toronto but I am leary about giving him a contract.

07-08-2011, 11:27 AM	#10
Jagger Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 308	One solution when you are overextended financially is to trade one or two of your older, high cost players for some cheap, young talent. Getting rid of even one high priced player will often get you out of a financial hole.

07-08-2011, 01:58 PM	#16
Redsfan320 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 23	On a similar subject, is there anyway to dump huge contracts on (now) crappy veterans? Nobody will trade for them, and I could release them, but I still have to pay them the same, same thing for sending them down, and that's if they accept the demotion. Irritating when I get an e-mail from them demanding a trade- believe me, I am trying my very hardest to trade, I want you gone more than you want to be gone, but nobody wants you- you're highly overpaid crap! 320

07-08-2011, 02:13 PM	#18
GrantDawg All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Covington, Ga. Posts: 519	Nope. Not unless you ho into commish mode and force retire them. That is something I would like added to the game. "Retirement settlement", so you can pay a guy off to retire and not be saddled with a huge contract for several years on a guy that fell off a cliff.