Player Development 2

bgheadjack · 05-02-2003, 01:52 AM

I just finished a season in which my five star prospect Starting Pitcher, Rhett Parrott, who's 25, won the Cy Young after going an astounding 22-2 with a 2.61 ERA, 234.1 IP, 234 K's. Awesome. He actually pitched the final game of the World Series, striking out 16, the most of any pitcher I've had in the three seasons I've been playing. Clearly this is someone to build my team around, and I LOVE the guy.

The during the offseason he goes from five blue stars to 2 1/2 copper (whatever color that is). Every single one of his numbers goes down at least 2. His talent in giving up hits goes down substantially, for example. I don't know...I know that these things "happen," but this just seemed so random that it makes me kinda mad. This kid has "Mark Prior" talent, and was off the charts according to my "legendary" scout. Now he's got "Mike Maroth" talent, seemingly, as a 26 year old. What's the deal here?

I had a similar thing happen in my first season. DURING the playoffs (I got swept in the Series) I had AJ Burnett, also a five blue star pitcher, have his talent in avoiding hits and walks drop, as well as his ability to strike players out. All of a sudden he was a 2 1/2 star pitcher, and ineffective during the playoffs. What's the deal? All of a sudden, on October 9th, he lost his ability and became average? This had a major effect on my season, and it just seems fishy. It really takes away from the enjoyment of the game for me. Thoughts? Thank you.

Jack Helmuth

Kelric · 05-02-2003, 02:17 AM

Stuff happens basically.

Rick Ankiel anyone?

Squonk · 05-02-2003, 02:36 AM

..

I've seen that exact scenario happen at least six times.

It's a complete crock of sh*t and just destroys the game experience. It's laughable is what it is. Other forums and people who play other text sims actually use THIS EXACT example as a punch line to jokes.

BUT THEN AGAIN RICK ANKIEL!!!!!!

OOTP COULDN'T POSSIBLY BE BROKEN IN THIS AREA

RICK ANKIEL

HE DID IT

RICK ANKIEL

my god man ... open your eyes and live your life.

SQ

..

Kelric · 05-02-2003, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Squonk
my god man ... open your eyes and live your life.

Live my life? I'm not the one flipping out on a gaming message board about someone referring to Rick Ankiel as an example of talent that suddenly dissapeared.

Edited to add:
Heck, I could also mention Bob Hamelin, Pat Listach, Jerome Walton, Darryl Strawberry who flamed out in the middle of his prime, or heck let's go back to 1950 and Walt Dropo while we're at all.

Ben E Lou · 05-02-2003, 04:59 AM

I've seen this happen to, but without a performance drop. What is going on is that when the player becomes no longer a prospect, he is star-rated based on his "current ratings" rather than his "potential ratings". Typically these guys continue to improve in their current ratings, and their stars will increase as well. In most cases, they continue to peform at the same or better level than when they were blue-star-rated as their current ratings rise. Markus explained this somewhere as follows:

BLUE STARS: based on their potential
GOLD STARS: based on a true-ratings comparison with every other veteran player in the player universe at their position

Henry · 05-02-2003, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SkyDog
I've seen this happen to, but without a performance drop. What is going on is that when the player becomes no longer a prospect, he is star-rated based on his "current ratings" rather than his "potential ratings". Typically these guys continue to improve in their current ratings, and their stars will increase as well. In most cases, they continue to peform at the same or better level than when they were blue-star-rated as their current ratings rise. Markus explained this somewhere as follows:

BLUE STARS: based on their potential
GOLD STARS: based on a true-ratings comparison with every other veteran player in the player universe at their position

Exactly.... and Squonk, take some time to understand the game better before you make such rash statements

Henry

D Love · 05-02-2003, 07:53 AM

Henry, I do believe is bigger complaint was with the ratings drop. I've never seen it myself, but it sounds extreme and depending on its frequency, it could be an issue. I've never noticed it myself, but that's just me.

Henry · 05-02-2003, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by D Love
Henry, I do believe is bigger complaint was with the ratings drop. I've never seen it myself, but it sounds extreme and depending on its frequency, it could be an issue. I've never noticed it myself, but that's just me.

I'm not discounting the possibility of a problem - we'll deal with that

I just couldn't help to react to what was nothing more than an emotional outburst - that doesn't help keep people focused on "solutions".

Henry

NYJuggalo45 · 05-02-2003, 08:20 AM

did he change scouts?

cooper_gd · 05-02-2003, 08:50 AM

I'll delete this post... ehe... should read rest of thread, covered redundant points, doh

/DEL

.....

DELETION COMPLETE

The above is an edited post that was edited for the just cause of keeping other posters from having to read the same thing over and over.

Scott Vibert · 05-02-2003, 08:50 AM

The first issue is simply the player going from prospect ratings to professional ratings. While his talents left him a 5 star prospect, his actual ratings make him a 2.5 star player currently.

The second issue, is just plain bad luck. Unfortunately in the player development roller coster, his number came up. However, the ratings drop is usually secondary and can take a little while to catch up to the talent drop, so its entirely possible that the players playoff ineffectiveness would have happened regardless, and the talent drop was merely coincidental.

Player Development takes place throughout the season and during the offseason, including the playoff's in OOTP.

P.S. Cooper, you can delete your own post, by pressing edit and using the Delete checkbox at the top of the message. Hope this helps.

CommishJoe · 05-02-2003, 08:55 AM

Sounds like the Yankees of the 80s

cooper_gd · 05-02-2003, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott Vibert
P.S. Cooper, you can delete your own post, by pressing edit and using the Delete checkbox at the top of the message. Hope this helps.

Awwww... I was trying to be cheeky in my doubleplusgood redundant type way.

Oh, one name I did bring up in that now edited post was Kevin Moss... but that was really the only thing original I had to contribute.

Matteo · 05-02-2003, 09:08 AM

Don't players change from prospects to "regulars" on their 26th. birthday?

I had players (especially MR) that started as 1,5* (gold) - 27 yrs, but with very good talents. Two years later (without talent increases) they became 3,5* or even 4,5* players.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 05-02-2003, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cooper_gd
doubleplusgood

nice Orwell reference.

Scott Vibert · 05-02-2003, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Matteo
Don't players change from prospects to "regulars" on their 26th. birthday?

I had players (especially MR) that started as 1,5* (gold) - 27 yrs, but with very good talents. Two years later (without talent increases) they became 3,5* or even 4,5* players.

This is correct.

NYJuggalo45 · 05-02-2003, 10:06 AM

again, i think the refers to what markus said concerning what a gold star means.
it really itsn't a representation of how good your player it...it is rather a representation of how he compares to the rest of the league's players at the same position.
so for example, in Matteo's MR case...yr 1, he is 1.5 gold stars...therefore he is worse than the AVG MR in the league...2 years later he's a 3.5 gold star...he's never went up, BUT he never went down...and now is above AVG MR in the league, due to the qualities of MR around the league dropping...atleast that's how i take it

Henry · 05-02-2003, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NYJuggalo45
again, i think the refers to what markus said concerning what a gold star means.
it really itsn't a representation of how good your player it...it is rather a representation of how he compares to the rest of the league's players at the same position.
so for example, in Matteo's MR case...yr 1, he is 1.5 gold stars...therefore he is worse than the AVG MR in the league...2 years later he's a 3.5 gold star...he's never went up, BUT he never went down...and now is above AVG MR in the league, due to the qualities of MR around the league dropping...atleast that's how i take it

That would be correct given Markus' explanation.

asaintsfan · 05-02-2003, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cooper_gd
Awwww... I was trying to be cheeky in my doubleplusgood redundant type way.

Oh, one name I did bring up in that now edited post was Kevin Moss... but that was really the only thing original I had to contribute.

Do you mean KEVIN "MAAS" not MOSS - the famous Yankee flamer???That name still makes me shutter unless I'm playing ESPN's Classic Fantasy Baseball - he's a friggin superstar there.

Matteo · 05-02-2003, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NYJuggalo45
again, i think the refers to what markus said concerning what a gold star means.
it really itsn't a representation of how good your player it...it is rather a representation of how he compares to the rest of the league's players at the same position.
so for example, in Matteo's MR case...yr 1, he is 1.5 gold stars...therefore he is worse than the AVG MR in the league...2 years later he's a 3.5 gold star...he's never went up, BUT he never went down...and now is above AVG MR in the league, due to the qualities of MR around the league dropping...atleast that's how i take it

His ERA rating went from 2 to 6, that was the main reason his gold stars went up. It would have been amazing if a guy with the same ratings went from 1,5 to 3,5 just because other MR got worse....

05-02-2003, 01:52 AM	#1
bgheadjack Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 51	Player Development 2 I just finished a season in which my five star prospect Starting Pitcher, Rhett Parrott, who's 25, won the Cy Young after going an astounding 22-2 with a 2.61 ERA, 234.1 IP, 234 K's. Awesome. He actually pitched the final game of the World Series, striking out 16, the most of any pitcher I've had in the three seasons I've been playing. Clearly this is someone to build my team around, and I LOVE the guy. The during the offseason he goes from five blue stars to 2 1/2 copper (whatever color that is). Every single one of his numbers goes down at least 2. His talent in giving up hits goes down substantially, for example. I don't know...I know that these things "happen," but this just seemed so random that it makes me kinda mad. This kid has "Mark Prior" talent, and was off the charts according to my "legendary" scout. Now he's got "Mike Maroth" talent, seemingly, as a 26 year old. What's the deal here? I had a similar thing happen in my first season. DURING the playoffs (I got swept in the Series) I had AJ Burnett, also a five blue star pitcher, have his talent in avoiding hits and walks drop, as well as his ability to strike players out. All of a sudden he was a 2 1/2 star pitcher, and ineffective during the playoffs. What's the deal? All of a sudden, on October 9th, he lost his ability and became average? This had a major effect on my season, and it just seems fishy. It really takes away from the enjoyment of the game for me. Thoughts? Thank you. Jack Helmuth __________________ Syracuse University 2003 NCAA Men's Basketball National Champions!

05-02-2003, 08:20 AM	#9
NYJuggalo45 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 2,045	did he change scouts? __________________ This space for rent

05-02-2003, 08:50 AM	#10
cooper_gd All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: PopBunker.net Posts: 1,011	I'll delete this post... ehe... should read rest of thread, covered redundant points, doh /DEL ..... DELETION COMPLETE The above is an edited post that was edited for the just cause of keeping other posters from having to read the same thing over and over. __________________

05-02-2003, 08:55 AM	#12
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	Sounds like the Yankees of the 80s __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.

05-02-2003, 09:08 AM	#14
Matteo Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL Posts: 473	Don't players change from prospects to "regulars" on their 26th. birthday? I had players (especially MR) that started as 1,5* (gold) - 27 yrs, but with very good talents. Two years later (without talent increases) they became 3,5* or even 4,5* players. __________________ ESPN The Show live chat during 2004 ALCS: Julie (Boston): Do you think Jeter does the fist pump everytime he disappoints a woman in bed? Or does he save it for when he's with A-Rod? Bill Simmons: Whoops - I didn't mean to post that. Really, I didn't.

05-02-2003, 02:17 AM	#2
Kelric Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Greater Boston Area Posts: 3,992	Stuff happens basically. Rick Ankiel anyone?

05-02-2003, 02:36 AM	#3
Squonk Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 52	.. I've seen that exact scenario happen at least six times. It's a complete crock of sh*t and just destroys the game experience. It's laughable is what it is. Other forums and people who play other text sims actually use THIS EXACT example as a punch line to jokes. BUT THEN AGAIN RICK ANKIEL!!!!!! OOTP COULDN'T POSSIBLY BE BROKEN IN THIS AREA RICK ANKIEL HE DID IT RICK ANKIEL my god man ... open your eyes and live your life. SQ ..

05-02-2003, 04:59 AM	#5
Ben E Lou Front Office Football Central Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Souf Cackilacky Posts: 1,762	I've seen this happen to, but without a performance drop. What is going on is that when the player becomes no longer a prospect, he is star-rated based on his "current ratings" rather than his "potential ratings". Typically these guys continue to improve in their current ratings, and their stars will increase as well. In most cases, they continue to peform at the same or better level than when they were blue-star-rated as their current ratings rise. Markus explained this somewhere as follows: BLUE STARS: based on their potential GOLD STARS: based on a true-ratings comparison with every other veteran player in the player universe at their position

05-02-2003, 07:53 AM	#7
D Love All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 904	Henry, I do believe is bigger complaint was with the ratings drop. I've never seen it myself, but it sounds extreme and depending on its frequency, it could be an issue. I've never noticed it myself, but that's just me.

05-02-2003, 08:50 AM	#11
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,201	The first issue is simply the player going from prospect ratings to professional ratings. While his talents left him a 5 star prospect, his actual ratings make him a 2.5 star player currently. The second issue, is just plain bad luck. Unfortunately in the player development roller coster, his number came up. However, the ratings drop is usually secondary and can take a little while to catch up to the talent drop, so its entirely possible that the players playoff ineffectiveness would have happened regardless, and the talent drop was merely coincidental. Player Development takes place throughout the season and during the offseason, including the playoff's in OOTP. P.S. Cooper, you can delete your own post, by pressing edit and using the Delete checkbox at the top of the message. Hope this helps.

05-02-2003, 10:06 AM	#17
NYJuggalo45 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 2,045	again, i think the refers to what markus said concerning what a gold star means. it really itsn't a representation of how good your player it...it is rather a representation of how he compares to the rest of the league's players at the same position. so for example, in Matteo's MR case...yr 1, he is 1.5 gold stars...therefore he is worse than the AVG MR in the league...2 years later he's a 3.5 gold star...he's never went up, BUT he never went down...and now is above AVG MR in the league, due to the qualities of MR around the league dropping...atleast that's how i take it __________________ This space for rent