Red Sox 2007-08 Offseason thread

Tony M · 10-29-2007, 05:55 AM

Hot Stove season is upon us again.

The Sox have seven (I think) players who are eligible for free agency this off-season.

Matt Clement
Eric Gagne
Mike Lowell
Doug Mirabelli
Curt Schilling
Mike Timlin
Julian Tavarez

My personal opinion is that probably five of them can go and we should try to get Timlin back for another season (I know he's getting on a bit now but he provides the experience in the bullpen), and Lowell at third base. I'm still wavering on the idea of getting A-Rod and if we keep Lowell and try for A-Rod he'd have to move back to his SS position and we'd have to find some way of trading off Lugo (I know he's not had the greatest season with the bat but his speed has been very useful this season).

I hope Clement does find a team for next season and remains uninjured - I'm sure he would have been a good #3 or #4 starter for us if he hadn't been out.

Does Gagne get a WS ring because he played in the series? If so, he is possibly one of the least deserving recipients of one in history (based on his time at the Red Sox - if the Rangers had ever won a WS with him as their closer he would have earnt it, but with us all he did was add a bit of excitement

to the run-in, and any game where we were less than 10 in the lead at the 8th!!)

If Wakefield can get himself back to full fitness for next season then maybe keep Mirabelli, but otherwise I wouldn't bother with resigning him. Either Cash or Kottaras could spend the winter and spring working with Wake and learn to catch the knuckleball, along with some batting practice for Cash.

I think Tavarez has potential if he's given a fair run at the game. He wasn't great but then he wasn't that bad either.

If Schilling has got any sense he'd make 2008 his last year, and even though he'll be 41, the fact he now has 3 World Series rings will allow him to command a high salary demand. And is it worth a risk on a high salary when he may only play a half/two-thirds of a season?

I think the bullpen (and potentially #5 starter) is the only area where the team needs strengthening next season if we re-sign Lowell. The starting rotation is pretty well set (Beckett and Dice-K as #1 and #2 and probably Lester, Buchholz, and Wakefield in the 3-5 spots).

andjbock · 10-29-2007, 08:49 AM

I would like to see them all go. Time to move forward and develop the bullpen for down the road. Give guys experience or acquire it through FA with younger guys. As clutch as Timlin is always is in the post season, I'd like to see the money used elsewhere.

Since Tavarez was horrible at the end of the season, I'll reserve comment.

Joshv02 · 10-29-2007, 09:19 AM

I couldn't have been more wrong about Lowell this season - my recommendation would be to offer arb and take the picks, and watch him have a 270/320/430 year with someone else. But, that is what I expected this year, and I was wrong, so what do I know?

thehatfield · 10-29-2007, 12:04 PM

Clement... we hardly knew ye. He was never the same after that Carl Crawford comebacker off his head. I hope he can overcome his shoulder troubles in a different uniform.

I kept thinking Gagne was going to be alright and then he always seemed to get into trouble. He seemed like the kind of guy trying too hard to show his acquisition was warranted in an already solid bullpen, plus the Yanks were getting close and old paranoia was setting in! I think someone is going to throw some cash at him to be a closer though so we'll never get to see if he just needed some "adjustment time" or not.

Lowell I said before I would like to bring him back if he would take 2 years with an option for a third but I guess the World Series MVP award has ended all scant hope that could happen? Was he ever accused of packing it in in 2005 to help force a trade? I could see him getting bored and having a down year if the Sox give him a big payday. I think he has one more really good year left. Will miss his glove too.

As much as I killed the Josh Bard/Cla Meredith for Mirabelli trade, Dougie served Wake well this year (6 past balls in 292 innings if I'm reading Baseball-Reference right) but we need to start working in a younger catcher and have him learn from Tek before Tek himself is at the Mendoza line (Mirabelli hit .202 in his 114 ABs).

Don't really want to see Shilling or Tavarez back but wouldn't mind either way. Tavarez seemed like a "positive energy" guy in the dugout all year when he wasn't pitching. Shill isn't the same pitcher so I'd rather take lumps with a young developing arm than an old declining one.

Timlin would be my only tough "heartfelt" decision. I'd love to give him one more year even though I know it's a bad move. For some reason I don't think Theo will be sentimental though.

QuestGAV · 10-29-2007, 03:45 PM

I think Lowell is likely to be back but the Sox won't go crazy - if bidding goes to a 4th year they take the picks and smile from ear to ear.

Either Tavarez or Timlin returns but not both.

Josh - what kind of picks will they be looking at for Gagne? I think he'll be on the first train out of town and it's tough to blame him.

I think they'll finally let Mirabelli go - after all, it's far from clear right now if Wakefield is even in the picture for next year. Obviously Clement is gone too.

Schilling comes back on a one year incentive-laden deal, fulfilling more or less the role that Wakefield does now. Beckett-Matsuzaka-Buchholz-Schilling-Lester is a sexy rotation. I also think Daisuke steps it up next year the way Beckett did this year, leaving no doubt that he's a top 5-10 starter in the AL.

QuestGAV · 10-29-2007, 03:51 PM

Oh yeah, and Coco Crisp will need a new home also, which is too bad because he'd be an ideal 4th OFer if I thought he could handle it from an ego perspective. It'll be interesting to see if they can get something useful for him. His contract is pretty favorable to the team and he really didn't have a terrible year. When people kick the tires on Andruw Jones, Torii Hunter, and Aaron Rowand and find the price untenable I think they might be able to develop a market for Coco and I've got plenty of confidence that Theo can exploit it.

mikev · 10-29-2007, 04:54 PM

Not so sure about Coco having too big of a market. There just aren't that many teams that need a CF, and everybody knows that Ellsbury is going to be the CF next season in Boston.

That said, Coco is exactly the type of guy I'd like to see Oakland aquire to replace Kotsay's broken down ass in 2008.

andjbock · 11-02-2007, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikev

Not so sure about Coco having too big of a market. There just aren't that many teams that need a CF, and everybody knows that Ellsbury is going to be the CF next season in Boston.

That said, Coco is exactly the type of guy I'd like to see Oakland aquire to replace Kotsay's broken down ass in 2008.

About a month ago rotoworld.com predicted a trade between the Sox and A's. Crisp for Chavez. Probably some other players involved, but I thought it was interesting.

Tony M · 11-06-2007, 04:30 AM

When does the period for Free Agents filing end? It just seems strange that over a week has passed since the World Series and it doesn't appear that Lowell has yet filed.

Splitter24 · 11-06-2007, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsoxford

When does the period for Free Agents filing end? It just seems strange that over a week has passed since the World Series and it doesn't appear that Lowell has yet filed.

I believe players have until November 13th to file.

thehatfield · 11-06-2007, 10:59 AM

The Globe is reporting this morning that Schilling is close to re-signing and it could be done today.

Here's a snip:

Quote:

Sometime today, barring a last-minute snafu, Schilling is expected to finalize a deal to stay with the Sox. According to a major league source with knowledge of the negotiations, most of the terms have been agreed to; there might be some incentives that are being finalized. Schilling was known to be seeking a salary of $13 million.

Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein, who is here for the general managers' meetings, had said yesterday that "we're moving the ball forward a little bit" on talks with both Schilling and Mike Lowell but would not get into specifics. Offers apparently were made to both players.

Schilling wrote on his 38pitches.com website, "Talks with the Red Sox are moving. Theo and I have spoken multiple times daily over the past week, and given the current situation, I am feeling very confident that we will be able to finalize a 1-year contract to allow us a chance to finish our career as members of the Red Sox organization.

"There are some things to iron out and details that must be finalized for both sides, but barring something unforeseen or outrageously odd happening, I feel very comfortable that I will finish my career here."

http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal..._close?mode=PF

Joshv02 · 11-06-2007, 11:10 AM

Olney says it is done, at $8mm with $2mm in incentives. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3096549

Great deal.

Tony M · 11-06-2007, 11:22 AM

$8m instead of $13m. Curt's obviously been to the Boras school of "pitchers getting contracts with the Red Sox"

Still, at $8m it's not that bad a deal - no way should they have stretched to $13m. I wonder what the incentives are ($500,000 for a pennant, $1,500,000 for a ring)

mh2365 · 11-06-2007, 11:24 AM

Interesting thought ... I am all for players going into the HOF representing the team they played the most years for but Schilling would be an interesting case.

His #'s IMO aren't really HOF #'s (now I'm sure on this site I will get bombarded with stat heads throwing out weird stats LOL). He won't get 250 wins, never won a Cy ....

So if he makes the HOF it will be mostly (IMO again) because of 2004. So does he still go in with a Phillie hat?

thehatfield · 11-06-2007, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsoxford

$8m instead of $13m. Curt's obviously been to the Boras school of "pitchers getting contracts with the Red Sox"

Still, at $8m it's not that bad a deal - no way should they have stretched to $13m. I wonder what the incentives are ($500,000 for a pennant, $1,500,000 for a ring)

I just read that the deal is $8 million, plus $5 million in possible incentives. $3 million are performance bonuses (probably based around innings pitched?) and $2 million are weight clauses! I guess they want a trim Schill in '08!

mikev · 11-06-2007, 02:03 PM

I wish I could get somebody to pay me 2 million dollars to not be a fat slob.

1998 Yankees · 11-06-2007, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Cowboy

The Globe is reporting this morning that Schilling is close to re-signing and it could be done today.

Why don't you guys get Clemens, Glavine, and Wells while you're at it? Trade Beckett to us for Mussina so you'll have a matching set.

thehatfield · 11-06-2007, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Why don't you guys get Clemens, Glavine, and Wells while you're at it? Trade Beckett to us for Mussina so you'll have a matching set.

I hear that... I said before I'd rather be taking the lumps from that spot in the rotation with a younger arm on the rise than an old one on the decline. I wonder if this deal is an indicator that Wakefield's career is over, which would be unfortunate, but at least explain bringing Schilling back for another year when he looks "ill-equipped for the long haul" to bust out a tired baseball cliche.

Andy · 11-06-2007, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Cowboy

I hear that... I said before I'd rather be taking the lumps from that spot in the rotation with a younger arm on the rise than an old one on the decline. I wonder if this deal is an indicator that Wakefield's career is over, which would be unfortunate, but at least explain bringing Schilling back for another year when he looks "ill-equipped for the long haul" to bust out a tired baseball cliche.

I thought they already picked up Wakefield's option?

Riverdome · 11-06-2007, 04:13 PM

Assuming the Sox don't get into the A-Rod stakes it's looking like the Tigers and Angels will be the only serious bidders. I agree with most that Lowell is the 3B in '08, but long term A-Rod would be a long term acquition.

10-29-2007, 04:54 PM	#7
mikev Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 4,014	Not so sure about Coco having too big of a market. There just aren't that many teams that need a CF, and everybody knows that Ellsbury is going to be the CF next season in Boston. That said, Coco is exactly the type of guy I'd like to see Oakland aquire to replace Kotsay's broken down ass in 2008. __________________ Global Unified Baseball Association - Vice Commish and Oakland Oaks GM

11-06-2007, 04:30 AM	#9
Tony M Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Here Posts: 6,156	When does the period for Free Agents filing end? It just seems strange that over a week has passed since the World Series and it doesn't appear that Lowell has yet filed. __________________ This signature is intentionally blank

11-06-2007, 11:10 AM	#12
Joshv02 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: , " Posts: 3,082	Olney says it is done, at $8mm with $2mm in incentives. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3096549 Great deal. __________________ Brookline Maccabees. RIP

11-06-2007, 11:22 AM	#13
Tony M Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Here Posts: 6,156	$8m instead of $13m. Curt's obviously been to the Boras school of "pitchers getting contracts with the Red Sox" Still, at $8m it's not that bad a deal - no way should they have stretched to $13m. I wonder what the incentives are ($500,000 for a pennant, $1,500,000 for a ring) __________________ This signature is intentionally blank

11-06-2007, 02:03 PM	#16
mikev Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 4,014	I wish I could get somebody to pay me 2 million dollars to not be a fat slob. __________________ Global Unified Baseball Association - Vice Commish and Oakland Oaks GM

10-29-2007, 05:55 AM	#1
Tony M Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Here Posts: 6,156	Red Sox 2007-08 Offseason thread Hot Stove season is upon us again. The Sox have seven (I think) players who are eligible for free agency this off-season. Matt Clement Eric Gagne Mike Lowell Doug Mirabelli Curt Schilling Mike Timlin Julian Tavarez My personal opinion is that probably five of them can go and we should try to get Timlin back for another season (I know he's getting on a bit now but he provides the experience in the bullpen), and Lowell at third base. I'm still wavering on the idea of getting A-Rod and if we keep Lowell and try for A-Rod he'd have to move back to his SS position and we'd have to find some way of trading off Lugo (I know he's not had the greatest season with the bat but his speed has been very useful this season). I hope Clement does find a team for next season and remains uninjured - I'm sure he would have been a good #3 or #4 starter for us if he hadn't been out. Does Gagne get a WS ring because he played in the series? If so, he is possibly one of the least deserving recipients of one in history (based on his time at the Red Sox - if the Rangers had ever won a WS with him as their closer he would have earnt it, but with us all he did was add a bit of excitement to the run-in, and any game where we were less than 10 in the lead at the 8th!!) If Wakefield can get himself back to full fitness for next season then maybe keep Mirabelli, but otherwise I wouldn't bother with resigning him. Either Cash or Kottaras could spend the winter and spring working with Wake and learn to catch the knuckleball, along with some batting practice for Cash. I think Tavarez has potential if he's given a fair run at the game. He wasn't great but then he wasn't that bad either. If Schilling has got any sense he'd make 2008 his last year, and even though he'll be 41, the fact he now has 3 World Series rings will allow him to command a high salary demand. And is it worth a risk on a high salary when he may only play a half/two-thirds of a season? I think the bullpen (and potentially #5 starter) is the only area where the team needs strengthening next season if we re-sign Lowell. The starting rotation is pretty well set (Beckett and Dice-K as #1 and #2 and probably Lester, Buchholz, and Wakefield in the 3-5 spots). __________________ This signature is intentionally blank

10-29-2007, 08:49 AM	#2
andjbock Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somerville, MA, USA Bats: Right Throws: Left Posts: 3,637	I would like to see them all go. Time to move forward and develop the bullpen for down the road. Give guys experience or acquire it through FA with younger guys. As clutch as Timlin is always is in the post season, I'd like to see the money used elsewhere. Since Tavarez was horrible at the end of the season, I'll reserve comment.

10-29-2007, 09:19 AM	#3
Joshv02 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: , " Posts: 3,082	I couldn't have been more wrong about Lowell this season - my recommendation would be to offer arb and take the picks, and watch him have a 270/320/430 year with someone else. But, that is what I expected this year, and I was wrong, so what do I know? __________________ Brookline Maccabees. RIP

10-29-2007, 12:04 PM	#4
thehatfield All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: dirty jerz Posts: 1,339	Clement... we hardly knew ye. He was never the same after that Carl Crawford comebacker off his head. I hope he can overcome his shoulder troubles in a different uniform. I kept thinking Gagne was going to be alright and then he always seemed to get into trouble. He seemed like the kind of guy trying too hard to show his acquisition was warranted in an already solid bullpen, plus the Yanks were getting close and old paranoia was setting in! I think someone is going to throw some cash at him to be a closer though so we'll never get to see if he just needed some "adjustment time" or not. Lowell I said before I would like to bring him back if he would take 2 years with an option for a third but I guess the World Series MVP award has ended all scant hope that could happen? Was he ever accused of packing it in in 2005 to help force a trade? I could see him getting bored and having a down year if the Sox give him a big payday. I think he has one more really good year left. Will miss his glove too. As much as I killed the Josh Bard/Cla Meredith for Mirabelli trade, Dougie served Wake well this year (6 past balls in 292 innings if I'm reading Baseball-Reference right) but we need to start working in a younger catcher and have him learn from Tek before Tek himself is at the Mendoza line (Mirabelli hit .202 in his 114 ABs). Don't really want to see Shilling or Tavarez back but wouldn't mind either way. Tavarez seemed like a "positive energy" guy in the dugout all year when he wasn't pitching. Shill isn't the same pitcher so I'd rather take lumps with a young developing arm than an old declining one. Timlin would be my only tough "heartfelt" decision. I'd love to give him one more year even though I know it's a bad move. For some reason I don't think Theo will be sentimental though. __________________ AFBL - Maryland Bridegrooms SBC - Western Suburbs Magpies no pressure no problem Last edited by thehatfield; 10-29-2007 at 12:17 PM.

10-29-2007, 03:45 PM	#5
QuestGAV Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,008	I think Lowell is likely to be back but the Sox won't go crazy - if bidding goes to a 4th year they take the picks and smile from ear to ear. Either Tavarez or Timlin returns but not both. Josh - what kind of picks will they be looking at for Gagne? I think he'll be on the first train out of town and it's tough to blame him. I think they'll finally let Mirabelli go - after all, it's far from clear right now if Wakefield is even in the picture for next year. Obviously Clement is gone too. Schilling comes back on a one year incentive-laden deal, fulfilling more or less the role that Wakefield does now. Beckett-Matsuzaka-Buchholz-Schilling-Lester is a sexy rotation. I also think Daisuke steps it up next year the way Beckett did this year, leaving no doubt that he's a top 5-10 starter in the AL.

10-29-2007, 03:51 PM	#6
QuestGAV Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,008	Oh yeah, and Coco Crisp will need a new home also, which is too bad because he'd be an ideal 4th OFer if I thought he could handle it from an ego perspective. It'll be interesting to see if they can get something useful for him. His contract is pretty favorable to the team and he really didn't have a terrible year. When people kick the tires on Andruw Jones, Torii Hunter, and Aaron Rowand and find the price untenable I think they might be able to develop a market for Coco and I've got plenty of confidence that Theo can exploit it.

11-06-2007, 11:24 AM	#14
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	Interesting thought ... I am all for players going into the HOF representing the team they played the most years for but Schilling would be an interesting case. His #'s IMO aren't really HOF #'s (now I'm sure on this site I will get bombarded with stat heads throwing out weird stats LOL). He won't get 250 wins, never won a Cy .... So if he makes the HOF it will be mostly (IMO again) because of 2004. So does he still go in with a Phillie hat?

11-06-2007, 04:13 PM	#20
Riverdome All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 964	Assuming the Sox don't get into the A-Rod stakes it's looking like the Tigers and Angels will be the only serious bidders. I agree with most that Lowell is the 3B in '08, but long term A-Rod would be a long term acquition. __________________ I was at the first OOTP Conference, where were you?..........