How to turn a bad team around

84Hammy · 01-26-2007, 08:51 PM

Does anybody have any answers for this? By bad team, I mean a team that is at the bottom financially, and as a result, have no ability to retain good players beyond three or four years, and consequently struggles in the standings. In my current fictional league, after simulating a few years, I took over the worst possible situation. It has been seven years and even though I have been around .500 most seasons, and even won a playoff spot one season, the team in last in payroll (my doing, a neccessary evil), media revenue, and budget. The team is third last in merchandising also. The big problem isn't that the team is last, but that the difference between first and last is HUGE: the team in first in these categories is ahead by four times! My team market size has dropped to "almost non-existentent", which is where the fan loyalty is as well. Does anyone have any good strategies that might change this? Here is some league info, if that might help:
--it's a one league universe, with 30 teams and full minors.
--The coefficient is set a .004 (it's 1908)

Should I increase the cash max? What real MLB team is this situation like? Pittsburg? Milwaukee? KC? Last year I would have said Detroit, but they are actually a example of what we try to do with these tough situations. Comerica Park will be packed for the early part of this summer. I've been to games there with less than 10,000 people a few years ago. They have turned it around and don't have the financial woes of the past. Maybe I should just give my friend Dave (Dumbrowski) a call....

Any advice on this would be helpful.
peace

mikev · 01-26-2007, 09:03 PM

Tear it down completely. Trade anything you have that is any sort of value for promising prospects. Overpay if you must, but overpay with players and not money. With all those bad seasons you should have stockpiled a good amount of talented youngsters. The key is to have 3, 4, or 5 of them all coming up right at the same time so you can boost your team signifigantly.

dodgerblue88 · 01-27-2007, 04:26 AM

Well, even though this is an area of the game that i seem to find unrealistic, is to watch the waiver wire every single day, because at least once a month there is a team that inexplicably places a top prospect on the waiver wire and doesn't even bother to pull them back once they are claimed. Also, basically just claim every player with decent potential under the age of 25 (the younger the better) because theres a good chance that at least one or two of these players will develop into something good. (works for me all the time)

Another good idea would be to go to explore world and scout other countries for hidden talent if you have that feature enabled. I scout countries every offseason and it seems that every year i get at least a couple of guys with a potential ratings in the 70's (another thing i find to be unrealistic).

Curtis · 01-27-2007, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodgerblue88

Another good idea would be to go to explore world and scout other countries for hidden talent if you have that feature enabled. I scout countries every offseason and it seems that every year i get at least a couple of guys with a potential ratings in the 70's (another thing i find to be unrealistic).

I, on the other hand, have never found anyone above a 22. It's still good advice.

84Hammy · 01-27-2007, 09:42 AM

Thanks so far...I think I just haven't been very lucky with either my draft picks or trades for youngsters. I trade at least two or three starting players a season. This year it was my closer and shortstop. I usually try to get a guy who is just reaching his potential and has at least one year left at the minimum. I find trading in the game, and scouting for that matter, cumbersome, so often I try to get it all done during the winter meetings and trade deadline. (I like instant feedback!) I sim every game until the 6th or 7th, so trolling the waiver wire might become more of a pass time. I do have scouts on, but I don't know if I will keep them on much longer. It is frustrating trying to work a trade when half the other teams players in the minors don't have ratings. I must be doing something wrong there...
In this current season, the team is off to a good start, 13-10, so I'll keep you posted. Thanks for the great advice, and keep it coming!

Rockpile · 01-27-2007, 11:04 AM

The first thing you need to do is put your best or second best scout on a rotation of the minor leagues a league at a time starting with AAA. Always have him as ONE of your draft scouts and ALWAYS have at least three scouts assigned to every draft so that you can triangulate their ratings. Make sure that at least two of the three guys agree and match them up with their scouting ratings (believe a strong pitching prospect scout over someone who isn't).

Actually strike that. The first thing you need to do is build the best scouting department money can buy...then do what I said above. Also, scout the hell out of central america and the far east. Australia and Canada aren't bad either. One scout doing the major leagues, one doing the minors, and all others are international until the draft comes around.

Then when you make trades fill up with as many top prospects as you can in each trade and keep adding lower prospects until the other team tells you to take a hike. Then remove one and make the trade.

Also, its completely unrealistic, but if you are desperate, trade any veteran with major league talent and contracts before the free agency period for prospects. Then spend your money in free agency and make those kinds of trades again.

Load up on #1 draft picks whenever you can. Pick college players over high school players. You want guys who are sure to make the majors and will probably start out in AA

84Hammy · 01-28-2007, 02:06 PM

Well I have made a number of these adjustments, so now it is just a matter of letting the season pan out. It just seems like it has been so long that I been managing (this is the seventh season) and haven't done so badly, that things like fan loyalty and market size should be increasing. If I don't get fired after this season, I think I might turn it into a dynasty report, which I've never done, but might help me keep track of things better. I'll keep you posted.

Recte44 · 01-28-2007, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikev

Tear it down completely. Trade anything you have that is any sort of value for promising prospects. Overpay if you must, but overpay with players and not money. With all those bad seasons you should have stockpiled a good amount of talented youngsters. The key is to have 3, 4, or 5 of them all coming up right at the same time so you can boost your team signifigantly.

Says the guy who never wins.

Slapstick · 01-29-2007, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodgerblue88

Well, even though this is an area of the game that i seem to find unrealistic, is to watch the waiver wire every single day, because at least once a month there is a team that inexplicably places a top prospect on the waiver wire and doesn't even bother to pull them back once they are claimed. Also, basically just claim every player with decent potential under the age of 25 (the younger the better) because theres a good chance that at least one or two of these players will develop into something good. (works for me all the time)

Another good idea would be to go to explore world and scout other countries for hidden talent if you have that feature enabled. I scout countries every offseason and it seems that every year i get at least a couple of guys with a potential ratings in the 70's (another thing i find to be unrealistic).

The first tactic is right on the money. Although it isn't the way things would work in real life, it is very common to claim a very good prospect off the waiver wire. Also, although it is not allowed in the MLB, it is possible to claim a player on waivers and then trade them immediately if they don't fit into what you need. It is almost cheating, but it gets your team some drastic improvement in short order.

ForemanFan · 01-29-2007, 04:36 PM

Mikev and DodgerBlue88 are right as rain (that waiver wire thing is an interesting "glitch"). Just be a regular Billy Beane and constantly trade away emerging stars (with emerging contracts!) for younger, multiple prospects.

At one point I had a lineup with Al Simmons, Chuck Klein, Jimmy Foxx, Lou Gehrig, Rogers Hornsby, Mickey Cochrane and Babe Ruth (can't remember my third bagger), all acquired using this method. Boy, did I ransack some teams!

P.S. DodgerBlue88 -- the Dodgers have a great owner in Frank McCourt. He and his wife, Jamie, come pretty regularly to where I work. They're both top-notch and super easy to talk to. He looks so dang young. Always eager to talk ball. . . .

EDIT - If memory serves me correctly, I converted one of my outfielders (or Double X) to third base. The other guy I had in the OF was Hack Wilson. Needless to say, my team led in just about every major statistical category known to man. And since several players were playing out of position, my defense wasn't quite as sterling.

84Hammy · 01-29-2007, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanFan

Mikev and DodgerBlue88 are right as rain (that waiver wire thing is an interesting "glitch"). Just be a regular Billy Beane and constantly trade away emerging stars (with emerging contracts!) for younger, multiple prospects.

Yeah, I had been trying to do this, but just not to the extent I needed to. I do have the third best minor league system, so I am getting there.

darkcloud4579 · 01-29-2007, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curtis

I, on the other hand, have never found anyone above a 22. It's still good advice.

Same here. I never find great players scouting the world when scouting is turned on. I do howeever, find randomly good players when I just leave the game to its own devices or when I have expansive universes of lots of leagues.

01-26-2007, 09:03 PM	#2
mikev Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 4,014	Tear it down completely. Trade anything you have that is any sort of value for promising prospects. Overpay if you must, but overpay with players and not money. With all those bad seasons you should have stockpiled a good amount of talented youngsters. The key is to have 3, 4, or 5 of them all coming up right at the same time so you can boost your team signifigantly. __________________ Global Unified Baseball Association - Vice Commish and Oakland Oaks GM

01-29-2007, 04:36 PM	#10
ForemanFan Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Los Angeles (Heaven -- pfffft!) Posts: 201	Mikev and DodgerBlue88 are right as rain (that waiver wire thing is an interesting "glitch"). Just be a regular Billy Beane and constantly trade away emerging stars (with emerging contracts!) for younger, multiple prospects. At one point I had a lineup with Al Simmons, Chuck Klein, Jimmy Foxx, Lou Gehrig, Rogers Hornsby, Mickey Cochrane and Babe Ruth (can't remember my third bagger), all acquired using this method. Boy, did I ransack some teams! P.S. DodgerBlue88 -- the Dodgers have a great owner in Frank McCourt. He and his wife, Jamie, come pretty regularly to where I work. They're both top-notch and super easy to talk to. He looks so dang young. Always eager to talk ball. . . . EDIT - If memory serves me correctly, I converted one of my outfielders (or Double X) to third base. The other guy I had in the OF was Hack Wilson. Needless to say, my team led in just about every major statistical category known to man. And since several players were playing out of position, my defense wasn't quite as sterling. __________________ The best lack all conviction, while the worst are filled with a passionate intensity. George is comin' back. . . again! Last edited by ForemanFan; 01-29-2007 at 04:40 PM.

01-26-2007, 08:51 PM	#1
84Hammy All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Stinky Windsor Posts: 919	How to turn a bad team around Does anybody have any answers for this? By bad team, I mean a team that is at the bottom financially, and as a result, have no ability to retain good players beyond three or four years, and consequently struggles in the standings. In my current fictional league, after simulating a few years, I took over the worst possible situation. It has been seven years and even though I have been around .500 most seasons, and even won a playoff spot one season, the team in last in payroll (my doing, a neccessary evil), media revenue, and budget. The team is third last in merchandising also. The big problem isn't that the team is last, but that the difference between first and last is HUGE: the team in first in these categories is ahead by four times! My team market size has dropped to "almost non-existentent", which is where the fan loyalty is as well. Does anyone have any good strategies that might change this? Here is some league info, if that might help: --it's a one league universe, with 30 teams and full minors. --The coefficient is set a .004 (it's 1908) Should I increase the cash max? What real MLB team is this situation like? Pittsburg? Milwaukee? KC? Last year I would have said Detroit, but they are actually a example of what we try to do with these tough situations. Comerica Park will be packed for the early part of this summer. I've been to games there with less than 10,000 people a few years ago. They have turned it around and don't have the financial woes of the past. Maybe I should just give my friend Dave (Dumbrowski) a call.... Any advice on this would be helpful. peace

01-27-2007, 04:26 AM	#3
dodgerblue88 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Whittier, CA Posts: 211	Well, even though this is an area of the game that i seem to find unrealistic, is to watch the waiver wire every single day, because at least once a month there is a team that inexplicably places a top prospect on the waiver wire and doesn't even bother to pull them back once they are claimed. Also, basically just claim every player with decent potential under the age of 25 (the younger the better) because theres a good chance that at least one or two of these players will develop into something good. (works for me all the time) Another good idea would be to go to explore world and scout other countries for hidden talent if you have that feature enabled. I scout countries every offseason and it seems that every year i get at least a couple of guys with a potential ratings in the 70's (another thing i find to be unrealistic).

01-27-2007, 09:42 AM	#5
84Hammy All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Stinky Windsor Posts: 919	Thanks so far...I think I just haven't been very lucky with either my draft picks or trades for youngsters. I trade at least two or three starting players a season. This year it was my closer and shortstop. I usually try to get a guy who is just reaching his potential and has at least one year left at the minimum. I find trading in the game, and scouting for that matter, cumbersome, so often I try to get it all done during the winter meetings and trade deadline. (I like instant feedback!) I sim every game until the 6th or 7th, so trolling the waiver wire might become more of a pass time. I do have scouts on, but I don't know if I will keep them on much longer. It is frustrating trying to work a trade when half the other teams players in the minors don't have ratings. I must be doing something wrong there... In this current season, the team is off to a good start, 13-10, so I'll keep you posted. Thanks for the great advice, and keep it coming!

01-27-2007, 11:04 AM	#6
Rockpile All Star Reserve Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 620	The first thing you need to do is put your best or second best scout on a rotation of the minor leagues a league at a time starting with AAA. Always have him as ONE of your draft scouts and ALWAYS have at least three scouts assigned to every draft so that you can triangulate their ratings. Make sure that at least two of the three guys agree and match them up with their scouting ratings (believe a strong pitching prospect scout over someone who isn't). Actually strike that. The first thing you need to do is build the best scouting department money can buy...then do what I said above. Also, scout the hell out of central america and the far east. Australia and Canada aren't bad either. One scout doing the major leagues, one doing the minors, and all others are international until the draft comes around. Then when you make trades fill up with as many top prospects as you can in each trade and keep adding lower prospects until the other team tells you to take a hike. Then remove one and make the trade. Also, its completely unrealistic, but if you are desperate, trade any veteran with major league talent and contracts before the free agency period for prospects. Then spend your money in free agency and make those kinds of trades again. Load up on #1 draft picks whenever you can. Pick college players over high school players. You want guys who are sure to make the majors and will probably start out in AA

01-28-2007, 02:06 PM	#7
84Hammy All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Stinky Windsor Posts: 919	Well I have made a number of these adjustments, so now it is just a matter of letting the season pan out. It just seems like it has been so long that I been managing (this is the seventh season) and haven't done so badly, that things like fan loyalty and market size should be increasing. If I don't get fired after this season, I think I might turn it into a dynasty report, which I've never done, but might help me keep track of things better. I'll keep you posted.