One Moderator's Warning

[D Love]

Having an excessive number of rules that are not all going to be consistently enforced does nothing to hinder activity (e.g., jaywalking).

I think you're blowing this out of proportion. Perhaps you should warn yourself so that you refrain from whining so much in the future!

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Stand tall, battists! You're reminding me of Gary Cooper.

Super Duper!

[eriqjaffe]

I wonder if he considers himself the luckiest man on the face of the earth.

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by andymac

People who post suggestions should also be able to take criticism of it without becoming offended or defensive about it.

And are you going to apply the same principle to yourself when it comes to dealing with The Wolf? Why shouldn't people be able to take criticism of OOTP or Markus without becoming offended or defensive about it?

Originally Posted by andymac

Also, may I ask why you must bold parts of your posts? I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything here, but it can be somewhat annoying (and comes across as you are yelling or being demanding). I am just curious as to your reasoning behind it.

Because my posts tend to be rather long, and I bold certain parts of it so people can get the very basic idea of what I'm saying by just reading those parts.

[andymac]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

And are you going to apply the same principle to yourself when it comes to dealing with The Wolf? Why shouldn't people be able to take criticism of OOTP or Markus without becoming offended or defensive about it?

There is a difference between criticising and trolling. If he could criticize in a way that didn't insult the game, its' developers, or its' loyal customers he woudn't get resistance from me. He lies and exaggerates to try to get attention and I just try to point out the lies and exaggerations. There is a reason he no longer uses his old handle...noone took him seriously around here anymore because of his antics.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by eriqjaffe

I wonder if he considers himself the luckiest man on the face of the earth.

I was thinking more of "High Noon."

[zekester91]

All I can say is watch my sig and in before the lock

[Jason]

Originally Posted by zekester91

All I can say is watch my sig and in before the lock

Roffle. Nice.

[eriqjaffe]

Dark in the city night is a wire
Steam in the subway earth is afire
Do do do do do do do dodo dododo dodo
Woman you want me give me a sign
And catch my breathing even closer behind
Do do do do do do do dodo dododo dodo

In touch with the ground
I'm on the hunt I'm after you
Smell like I sound I'm lost in a crowd.
And I'm hungry like the wolf.
Straddle the line in discord and rhyme
I'm on the hunt I'm after you.
Mouth is alive with juices like wine
And I'm hungry like the wolf

Stalked in the forest too close to hide
I'll be upon you by the moonlight side
Do do do do do do do dodo dododo dodo
High blood Drumming on your skin it's so tight
You feel my heart I'm just a moment behind
Do do do do do do do dodo dododo dodo

In touch with the ground
I'm on the hunt I'm after you
Scent and a sound. I'm lost and I'm found
And I'm hungry like the wolf.
Strut on a line it's discord and rhyme
I howl and I whine I'm after you
Mouth is alive all running inside
And I'm hungry like the wolf.

Hungry like the wolf
Hungry like the wolf
Hungry like the wolf

Burning the ground I break from the crowd
I'm on the hunt I'm after you
I smell like I sound. I'm lost and I'm found
And I'm hungry like the wolf
Strut on a line it's discord and rhyme
I'm on the hunt I'm after you
Mouth is alive with juices like wine
And I'm hungry like the wolf

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by andymac

There is a difference between criticising and trolling. If he could criticize in a way that didn't insult the game, its' developers, or its' loyal customers he woudn't get resistance from me. He lies and exaggerates to try to get attention and I just try to point out the lies and exaggerations. There is a reason he no longer uses his old handle...noone took him seriously around here anymore because of his antics.

And yet anyone else could think the same things about you, simply with a shift in perspective.

From his perspective, people like you are trolling and exaggerating. He believes that you're exaggerating the quality of OOTP and the happiness of people with the product, and you're downplaying the problems and letting the developers off the hook. And he believes that you're the one that is trolling because you keep resisting him every time he makes a statement on the forums. If he gets an argument everywhere he goes, no matter what he posts, then he's going to think that you are the troll.

If everyone here took the time to try and understand the other perspective, even if they vehemently disagree with it, I think the atmosphere would improve. Personally, I cannot imagine why anyone would want the option to simulate a baseball league based on Mars, with special gravity and atmospheric affects added. But I would NEVER stand in the way of someone asking for that feature or wanting it to be implemented. If Markus can do it and still produce a great product, then it doesn't affect me in the least. It's another satisfied customer.

But I wouldn't be offended if someone was upset about not having it and trashed Markus about it. I would just recommend that the person try to state the request or the complaint a bit more politely, as that will probably improve the chances of it being implemented. But if the person wants to go on raging about it, then so be it. It doesn't affect me at all. I can ignore his posts, and he can hurt his chances of getting the feature into the game.

Anyway, not everyone shares the same worldview, much less the same view of OOTP or how to post about it on web forums. So maybe everyone can make an extra effort to try and understand the other perspective before posting.

[bp_]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Just take it easy guys... this is a board about a GAME. It should be fun!

Can't put it much better than that.

[andymac]

I have never argued against any feature being added. I have simply given my opinion on the viability of it and/or my expected use of it. As far as perspective, I do understand and see others' points of view but what I try to do is bring a bit of developer perspective to the people requesting features. It is one thing to request something, it is another to request it right now. Things that seem simple to implement very often are not. When people make demaning requests I try to put it in perspective. I'm not standing in the way of anything, I have nothing to do with the development of the game so I'm not sure how anyone could think I am able to do that anyway.

Unlike the employees of SI and those they have in official positions, I am under no obligation to respond to purposefully inflammatory or demanding posts with a "the customer is always right" attitude and I don't intend to.

[Dr. Walter Doodah]

No offense battists, I think you've done a good job as a mod so far, but I think this is a very bad idea. Arbitrary warnings will cause more problems than they solve, especially if you don't have the resources to monitor every thread. It's happened before, and on this very forum.

You may think you can get away with reading 1/4 of the threads or whatever and just policing those, but that's how the trouble starts. EVERY SINGLE TIME someone got a warning for arbitrary reasons like you mention in OT, there was a 100+ post thread on it. "Why did I get a warning and so-and-so didn't for posting the exact same thing?" People would argue semantics of the posts in question. What did he mean when he said that? Was he joking? Was it really the same thing as this other person said three weeks ago? Ugh! It created what could best be described as warring factions, where people would report eachother for the smallest slight, just because "their man" got "screwed" last time. It created an ugly atmosphere where often there was more talk about the warning system than anything else.

There are already too many warnings being handed out here, imho, and now you want to hand out even more? Frankly, I don't understand this recent obsession with handing out warnings and bannings for the smallest slights. It's not my decision obviously, but I really don't get why you would want to ban a customer of this company permanently just because he lost his head a couple times over the span of years. Sure there's flareups where people are a bit nasty to eachother sometimes, but this is the way internet forums are. If it gets too heated, lock the thread. This is how this place worked before, and I really didn't see the problem with it. At least everyone was back the next day.

If you insist on being even more freewheeling with the warnings, at least consider lowering the penalty to maybe a couple weeks or a month ban when someone gets their 4th. A permanent ban seems way too harsh. It's not as if people are just picking up warnings just for really blatant offenses like posting porn or something. If someone does something like that four times, then yeah, I can see why you'd want to send him away for good. But the truth is, most warnings are given out for small offenses, like saying "hell" or "ass" (words which are acceptable on prime time network television) or getting a little too worked up in a debate. And these warnings never go away. So if you slip a few times here and there, again, over the span of years, you're gone FOREVER under the current rules. Way too harsh if you ask me, especially on the long time loyal customers who post a lot and are more likely to have a couple slip-ups from years ago catch up to them.

These types of policies are quickly making this forum into a no fun zone.

[Carplos]

And yet anyone else could think the same things about you, simply with a shift in perspective.

From his perspective, people like you are trolling and exaggerating. He believes that you're exaggerating the quality of OOTP and the happiness of people with the product, and you're downplaying the problems and letting the developers off the hook. And he believes that you're the one that is trolling because you keep resisting him every time he makes a statement on the forums. If he gets an argument everywhere he goes, no matter what he posts, then he's going to think that you are the troll.

I'm all for relativism, but anyone who thinks andymac is a troll in those situations needs to lay off the hard drugs.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Dr. Walter Doodah

No offense battists, I think you've done a good job as a mod so far, but I think this is a very bad idea. Arbitrary warnings will cause more problems than they solve, especially if you don't have the resources to monitor every thread. It's happened before, and on this very forum.

You may think you can get away with reading 1/4 of the threads or whatever and just policing those, but that's how the trouble starts. EVERY SINGLE TIME someone got a warning for arbitrary reasons like you mention in OT, there was a 100+ post thread on it. "Why did I get a warning and so-and-so didn't for posting the exact same thing?" People would argue semantics of the posts in question. What did he mean when he said that? Was he joking? Was it really the same thing as this other person said three weeks ago? Ugh! It created what could best be described as warring factions, where people would report eachother for the smallest slight, just because "their man" got "screwed" last time. It created an ugly atmosphere where often there was more talk about the warning system than anything else.

There are already too many warnings being handed out here, imho, and now you want to hand out even more? Frankly, I don't understand this recent obsession with handing out warnings and bannings for the smallest slights. It's not my decision obviously, but I really don't get why you would want to ban a customer of this company permanently just because he lost his head a couple times over the span of years. Sure there's flareups where people are a bit nasty to eachother sometimes, but this is the way internet forums are. If it gets too heated, lock the thread. This is how this place worked before, and I really didn't see the problem with it. At least everyone was back the next day.

If you insist on being even more freewheeling with the warnings, at least consider lowering the penalty to maybe a couple weeks or a month ban when someone gets their 4th. A permanent ban seems way too harsh. It's not as if people are just picking up warnings just for really blatant offenses like posting porn or something. If someone does something like that four times, then yeah, I can see why you'd want to send him away for good. But the truth is, most warnings are given out for small offenses, like saying "hell" or "ass" (words which are acceptable on prime time network television) or getting a little too worked up in a debate. And these warnings never go away. So if you slip a few times here and there, again, over the span of years, you're gone FOREVER under the current rules. Way too harsh if you ask me. It's quickly making this forum into a no fun zone.

Pretty much sums up the way I feel. It's certainly not my decision to make but I'd much rather see a "penalty box" for small infractions. Two weeks or a month suspension rather than a life long ban.

I'd also like to see a "no alias" policy which works very well at fofc (violation of this is an immediate banning). You're also not allowed to change your board name at fofc without a mod doing it for you. It might help to curb some of the problems when people both know who is posting and make the person who is posting think before he posts. It's just to easy to hide behind these multiple accounts and cause problems.

IMHO you are opening a can of worms that shouldn't be opened. The two suggestions I have given IMHO would do more good. At least everyone would
know who was really posting what.

YMMV

[Guidokid]

Wow.....what is this all about??? I don't see any bickering on these boards at all......but, if you say it's a rule to not to be mean to each other, then i guess we are all going to have to OBEY that rule.

[The Wolf]

There are some people here who react to criticism of the game by attacking whoever posts the criticism. It's not just me, it has happened and does happen to other people as well.

I am no longer allowed to use the dictionary word that accurately describes this behavior, so I won't. But it's a really childish thing to do.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by andymac

He lies and exaggerates to try to get attention and I just try to point out the lies and exaggerations. There is a reason he no longer uses his old handle...noone took him seriously around here anymore because of his antics.

Wrong guy. And I have caught you making false statements on this board before and pointed it out (PureSim has extremely limited setup options, yeah, right). Take a hard look in the mirror. You are exactly what you are accusing others of being.

You call me a troll? One of us has been trolling in this thread and trying to pick a fight, and it hasn't been me.

[Bonedwarf]

What amuses me is I was warned for something, yet on another forum on here, said something that I felt was a lot worse, and nothing was said.

There's a HUGE double standard here, and this latest sabre rattling/power tripping will lead to great comedy, I have no doubt of that.

[Dr. Walter Doodah]

Originally Posted by Dr. Walter Doodah

But the truth is, most warnings are given out for small offenses, like saying "hell" or "ass" (words which are acceptable on prime time network television)

And while we're on the subject, this policy right here is a bit ridiculous, imho. It's a nice sentiment and all to expect everyone to post without using words like these, but the truth is, it's 2006, not 1806. Most people use words like "hell" in their day to day vocabulary. The media uses these words. A lot of your customers use these words, and, after hearing them on their favorite sitcom last night, they don't even think twice about them being acceptable.

Look, you are already working with a niche product here. There aren't many people out there who would consider playing with a bunch of stats fun. It seems to me that you are trying to whittle it down even more to "people who like playing with stats and are also puritans". That's the level it's reached, frankly. I feel that you are alienating a lot of people by being this strict on language. Hey yeah, no f-word, no c-word, and no s-word. That's understandable. But the level of censorship around here has gotten pretty laughable. I have posted on many many forums out there, and I have yet to see this level of strictness anywhere. And, again, we used to be able to say words like these, and somehow the place didn't fall apart.

What gives? Markus said this place is supposed to be fun. But with all these rules, I feel like I'm walking on glass now whenever I post here. Not fun at all.