Gambo and T_Wil1 Photopack

[Merkle923]

Not all images are numbered. In fact, I'm certain it's a majority that weren't, and probably at least 65%.

The Vault storage files were not accessible via internet until about 2010. Before that, the images existed publicly only on eBay where Topps began to sell them circa 2005. The earliest ones were also in low-definition and without watermarks.

[bb4fun2dice]

Thanks for your reply. Does that mean that these images were not in a designated Folder if they have no Letter and Number assigned to them? But are none the less Topps Vault images. Like the Mantilla photo with the 'Orange' ball background similar to many Red Sox Vault images with Letter & Number designations. Again, much appreciated for your response.

[baseball-birthdays.com]

Originally Posted by Merkle923

Say, BBBDays, do you have the link to the Chicago Collection main array? I've lost it and cannot for the life of me figure out how to get back to their page with the thumbnails of all their pre-WWI Images. Many thanks

home page- https://explore.chicagocollections.org/

baseball specific- https://explore.chicagocollections.o...yword=baseball

[Merkle923]

The most important fact about the Topps Vault images is that Topps didn't assign any numbers, letters, or folders to them. A guy here did.

All they were doing was scanning photo positives (baseball, football, hockey, basketball, non-sports) to use with listings on eBay. For the first decade or so they stored these on internal computers, then later got space on an image hosting site. All of this folder/number/letter stuff derives entirely from the link you hit that took you to that particular image - until one since-banned member here went a little too far in purloining those images for his own use.

I have some unofficial connections to Topps and convinced them there was no harm to them and maybe even a little goodwill benefit even though while this ex-member did not literally hack their website, this was the effect of what he did.

So just as Topps didn't "assign" numbers to them pre-2011 (or whenever), it also didn't assign numbers to them post-2011. This thread assigned them.

[UKBaseballfan]

Originally Posted by Merkle923

The most important fact about the Topps Vault images is that Topps didn't assign any numbers, letters, or folders to them. A guy here did.

All they were doing was scanning photo positives (baseball, football, hockey, basketball, non-sports) to use with listings on eBay. For the first decade or so they stored these on internal computers, then later got space on an image hosting site. All of this folder/number/letter stuff derives entirely from the link you hit that took you to that particular image - until one since-banned member here went a little too far in purloining those images for his own use.

I have some unofficial connections to Topps and convinced them there was no harm to them and maybe even a little goodwill benefit even though while this ex-member did not literally hack their website, this was the effect of what he did.

So just as Topps didn't "assign" numbers to them pre-2011 (or whenever), it also didn't assign numbers to them post-2011. This thread assigned them.

Clarification is required in respect of this post.

Topps assigned each image that they posted for sale under the topps vault system into a folder and number of their choice. This code assigned by Topps was used by those of us who attempted to log and assign each image, and to identify each image.

This process was undertaken as follows :-

On the Topps Vault let's say an image was assigned by them the code AA12. It would also identify who was shown on image AA12. When you accessed that image on their site the path by which the image could be accessed was shown. Via this path it was possible to go back a stage that enabled you to see all images shown in folder AA. Having established this methodology you could sequentially access all images in every folder.

Invariably although the images just showed you the code you did not have the identification of who was on the image.

[UKBaseballfan]

Originally Posted by Merkle923

The most important fact about the Topps Vault images is that Topps didn't assign any numbers, letters, or folders to them. A guy here did.

All they were doing was scanning photo positives (baseball, football, hockey, basketball, non-sports) to use with listings on eBay. For the first decade or so they stored these on internal computers, then later got space on an image hosting site. All of this folder/number/letter stuff derives entirely from the link you hit that took you to that particular image - until one since-banned member here went a little too far in purloining those images for his own use.

I have some unofficial connections to Topps and convinced them there was no harm to them and maybe even a little goodwill benefit even though while this ex-member did not literally hack their website, this was the effect of what he did.

So just as Topps didn't "assign" numbers to them pre-2011 (or whenever), it also didn't assign numbers to them post-2011. This thread assigned them.

Clarification is required in respect of this post.

Topps assigned each image that they posted for sale under the topps vault system into a folder and number of their choice. This code assigned by Topps was used by those of us who attempted to log and assign each image, and to identify each image.

This process was undertaken as follows :-

On the Topps Vault let's say an image was assigned by them the code AA12. It would also identify who was shown on image AA12. When you accessed that image on their site the path by which the image could be accessed was shown. Via this path it was possible to go back a stage in the path that enabled you to see all images shown in folder AA. Having established this methodology you could sequentially access all images in every folder.

The path would looks something like this :- toppsvault/aa/aa12.

Invariably although the downloaded images just showed you the code you did not have the identification of who was on the image.

A significant number of the images were posted for sale on the topps vault site so you could match a name to the code. It also became clear that usually the numbers were assigned in each folder in alphabetical order. Remember that each folder contained a variety of baseball images, other sports images and non-sports images.

As far as I am aware none of us, baseball fans involved in this process did so for personal financial gain.

[Buster Narum]

Originally Posted by UKBaseballfan

Topps assigned each image that they posted for sale under the topps vault system into a folder and number of their choice.

...

As far as I am aware none of us, baseball fans involved in this process did so for personal financial gain.

I agree about the folders and numbering - that was how they organized the auction image listings. Very often, the images were organized in loose alphabetical groupings. In the very beginning, it may have been different and there may have been images without folder/number designations. I'm not sure about that issue. When I first discovered the auction site in 2008, there were still no watermarks, but they did have folder designations and numbers. A lot of the early ones were like AA, BB, CC, etc. I have no idea what went on before 2008.

AFAIK, the gentleman who caused all of the problems with the Topps people (Rainmaker, Braves70, other aliases, too - he is now deceased) was just prematurely posting the images before Topps wanted the public to have them. He was not profiting from it, he was just EXTREMELY anxious about it and disregarded the interests of Topps in selling their images.

Because of him, we unfortunately lost access to the auction image folders.

Hopefully Fanatics will see fit to use the accumulated images at some point so we can all see more of them. It would really be a shame if they remain buried.

[bb4fun2dice]

Added two more letter/number designations to my Steve Barber BAL Vault images. Still need one more as shown in posted photo.

[Merkle923]

Let me try this one last time, and then I'll get out of this rabbit hole.

"Topps Vault" consisted of two guys, very nice and hardworking fellows. If you read them any of this debate about Topps folders and Topps catalogue numbers they'd burst into laughter. I know this because I did. They just needed the next open file on the storage site on which to upload an image, and then they'd copy the link, re-label it with the player's name, team and approximate year, and rely on that label when they activated the auction in question on eBay.

What I'm trying to convey is that before the banned individual accessed the storage site, a 1963 color positive of Steve Barber was known within Topps as "Steve Barber Orioles 1963." AFTER the storage site was accessed that image was known within Topps as..."Steve Barber Orioles 1963."

If you create a Word document on your laptop and write something in it, you label it as you need to ("ThursdayToDoList"). There is also a computer code identifying the document that exists within your computer and you can find if you want. But to you, that document is known as "ThursdayToDoList" not "V_D5089D61DC448BBDB45F79B364BEB9046D6F7669_600000 0_N_S0.000_E479.479.status"

As to the future: When Fanatics bought out Topps they closed the operations, both of the Vault guys went to work elsewhere, and the new bosses packed up everything (including the million+ remaining photo positives and countless uncut sheets and proof cards and production materials) and put them into storage. The executives I know there from the pre-Fanatics era said they didn't even know where the storage was, and that the universal conclusion from the new people and the old ones (in part because so many Topps images wound up on eBay, printed or used in fanfic homemade 'art' cards, or autographed) was that the entire Vault project just wasn't worth the trouble.

I tried to convince them that as long as they sold Topps images, that outcome was inevitable and that it had nothing to do with collectors and researchers to whom their files were invaluable resources. And they said yes, they realized that the outcome was inevitable - that's why they were no longer selling Topps images.*

As I said, I tried - as I have, here.

[bb4fun2dice]

Many thanks to both UKBaseballfan and Merkle923 for information on the Topps Vault images. I got on the Chop Country site you shared and maybe my request should have been worded differently. Is the Steve Barber image I posted given a letter/number designation on the Vault listings on the Chop Country website? Thanks in advance.

[Buster Narum]

Originally Posted by bb4fun2dice

Is the Steve Barber image I posted given a letter/number designation on the Vault listings on the Chop Country website? Thanks in advance.

I have it as KD884.

[BklynJace]

The sidelining of the Vault under Fanatics is such a tragedy. I get how and why they ended up there, and it's not illogical from a business POV, but so much rich baseball history is being shelved. Oh how I wish this wealth of images could somehow wind up in the Hall of Fame, as the McWilliams collection did.

[UKBaseballfan]

Originally Posted by Buster Narum

I agree about the folders and numbering - that was how they organized the auction image listings. Very often, the images were organized in loose alphabetical groupings. In the very beginning, it may have been different and there may have been images without folder/number designations. I'm not sure about that issue. When I first discovered the auction site in 2008, there were still no watermarks, but they did have folder designations and numbers. A lot of the early ones were like AA, BB, CC, etc. I have no idea what went on before 2008.

AFAIK, the gentleman who caused all of the problems with the Topps people (Rainmaker, Braves70, other aliases, too - he is now deceased) was just prematurely posting the images before Topps wanted the public to have them. He was not profiting from it, he was just EXTREMELY anxious about it and disregarded the interests of Topps in selling their images.

Because of him, we unfortunately lost access to the auction image folders.

Hopefully Fanatics will see fit to use the accumulated images at some point so we can all see more of them. It would really be a shame if they remain buried.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything in this post. I would add I think it was inappropriate to blame him solely for the loss of access to the images, I would prefer to view the decision to remove access to the Topps images as an over-reaction to his anxiousness which I would prefer to view in terms of diligence and heroism. The decision appears to signify an emphasis on profit motive rather than serving the aspirations of baseball fans, which he attempted to represent.

[Buster Narum]

Originally Posted by UKBaseballfan

I wholeheartedly agree with everything in this post. I would add I think it was inappropriate to blame him solely for the loss of access to the images, I would prefer to view the decision to remove access to the Topps images as an over-reaction to his anxiousness which I would prefer to view in terms of diligence and heroism. The decision appears to signify an emphasis on profit motive rather than serving the aspirations of baseball fans, which he attempted to represent.

I realize that this is water under the bridge and doesn't matter any more, but respectfully, I *do* see him as solely responsible for causing us to lose access. The images were the property of Topps, and their right to sell them is unquestionable. It was their work, their product, and their BUSINESS.

Having learned how to peek into the auction folders, what would have been the proper way for the collector community to deal with the situation was to wait for the images to appear on eBay for sale and THEN post them. That way, there would be respect for the rights of Topps and only a brief delay until our public viewing. We could all have looked at them privately until the proper time. They did not have to be made public. That was Rainmaker's core failing.

Peace in the land, and our access would have gone uninterrupted.