Rate this park

Makakilo MooNs · 05-21-2005, 02:35 AM

How would you go about rating a ballpark with no outfield fences (and natural grass) like many high school fields?

My inclination is to decrease homers and increase triples, but how much?

Carlton_Willey · 05-21-2005, 12:04 PM

Just my opinion, but having played in such a park and watched balls roll forever, I'd do just the opposite. With no fence for a shot in the gap to bounce off of, the outfielders will never catch up to a ball until it stops rolling. Thus most triples (and many doubles) become inside-the-park (with no fences, there is no "park") homers.

On the other hand, a few long drives will be caught that a fence would have prevented an outfielder from reaching. Hard to put a number on this reduction.

You'd also have a tendency for outfielders to play deeper, to prevent balls from going over their heads, but this would only be with power hitters up at the plate. So hitters with great power would have more bloopers drop in, but slap hitters would get no benefit. That can't be programmed, I think.

endgame · 05-21-2005, 03:21 PM

Instincts tell me that the end result is similar to those parks with deep oddly-angled alleys that allow those gap singles to turn into doubles more frequently. Given the inability to program in - at least in this version - inside-the-park HR versus traditional HR, the end result seems basically the increase in run production "potential". I'd limit this in a more conservative fashion by simply increasing the number of doubles occuring. That puts more extra base opportunities in play and the potential to score on a single (that you could consider bumping up slightly as well as I agree the gap opens with OF doing what Carlton suggested - playing back) resulting in more scoring opportunities without exaggerated inflation.

I am not able to conclude whether this is best addressed through League Totals or the Ballpark Factors. I wish I had a better grasp of how these two combined to yield their results. But in this case, I'd defer to the majority of the adjustment given to the BP factors with only moderate consideration to league totals mirroring appropriate cause and effect. Measure from there. If the results are what you intend, it also leaves room to build fences later and modify only the BP settings to illustrate the structural change.

Makakilo MooNs · 05-21-2005, 08:40 PM

I don't want to touch league settings to account for this because not all of the parks in my league are without fences.

I understand about balls rolling forever, but in my high school experience in a bad league in snow country a long, long time ago outfielders played deeper and there seemed to be fewer "inside the park" home runs than triples because the outfielders eventually caught up to the ball and stopped the gassed baserunner at third.

This may be a fuzzy memory though, but there seem to be a lot more home runs hit over fences in high school games here in Hawaii than those that find a gap and keep rolling. But that is just speculation.

So I guess upping doubles and leaving triples and homers at 100 is the way to go. I am comfortable with having the game call a home run "over the fence" on a field that has no fence as long as the frequency is correct.

Just for background, this is for my solo league with fictional players that uses Oahu's 24 public high school fields as home parks. Since I don't get out to many prep games, I rated the parks when I showed up to take a picture of them and used my imagination.

Oahu sure does have some nice fields, though.

05-21-2005, 02:35 AM	#1
Makakilo MooNs Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Hawaii Posts: 245	Rate this park How would you go about rating a ballpark with no outfield fences (and natural grass) like many high school fields? My inclination is to decrease homers and increase triples, but how much?

05-21-2005, 12:04 PM	#2
Carlton_Willey Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 354	Just my opinion, but having played in such a park and watched balls roll forever, I'd do just the opposite. With no fence for a shot in the gap to bounce off of, the outfielders will never catch up to a ball until it stops rolling. Thus most triples (and many doubles) become inside-the-park (with no fences, there is no "park") homers. On the other hand, a few long drives will be caught that a fence would have prevented an outfielder from reaching. Hard to put a number on this reduction. You'd also have a tendency for outfielders to play deeper, to prevent balls from going over their heads, but this would only be with power hitters up at the plate. So hitters with great power would have more bloopers drop in, but slap hitters would get no benefit. That can't be programmed, I think. Last edited by Carlton_Willey; 05-21-2005 at 12:06 PM.

05-21-2005, 03:21 PM	#3
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	Instincts tell me that the end result is similar to those parks with deep oddly-angled alleys that allow those gap singles to turn into doubles more frequently. Given the inability to program in - at least in this version - inside-the-park HR versus traditional HR, the end result seems basically the increase in run production "potential". I'd limit this in a more conservative fashion by simply increasing the number of doubles occuring. That puts more extra base opportunities in play and the potential to score on a single (that you could consider bumping up slightly as well as I agree the gap opens with OF doing what Carlton suggested - playing back) resulting in more scoring opportunities without exaggerated inflation. I am not able to conclude whether this is best addressed through League Totals or the Ballpark Factors. I wish I had a better grasp of how these two combined to yield their results. But in this case, I'd defer to the majority of the adjustment given to the BP factors with only moderate consideration to league totals mirroring appropriate cause and effect. Measure from there. If the results are what you intend, it also leaves room to build fences later and modify only the BP settings to illustrate the structural change. __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________ Last edited by endgame; 05-21-2005 at 03:23 PM.

05-21-2005, 08:40 PM	#4
Makakilo MooNs Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Hawaii Posts: 245	Thanks I don't want to touch league settings to account for this because not all of the parks in my league are without fences. I understand about balls rolling forever, but in my high school experience in a bad league in snow country a long, long time ago outfielders played deeper and there seemed to be fewer "inside the park" home runs than triples because the outfielders eventually caught up to the ball and stopped the gassed baserunner at third. This may be a fuzzy memory though, but there seem to be a lot more home runs hit over fences in high school games here in Hawaii than those that find a gap and keep rolling. But that is just speculation. So I guess upping doubles and leaving triples and homers at 100 is the way to go. I am comfortable with having the game call a home run "over the fence" on a field that has no fence as long as the frequency is correct. Just for background, this is for my solo league with fictional players that uses Oahu's 24 public high school fields as home parks. Since I don't get out to many prep games, I rated the parks when I showed up to take a picture of them and used my imagination. Oahu sure does have some nice fields, though.