Teams Tying for Division Winning Wild Card?

I Am The Game · 09-14-2002, 03:59 PM

I thought I heard some stuff about if two teams tie for the division when they have their playoff, the winner gets the division the loser gets jack and the runner-up of the Wild Card becomes the Wild Card runner? Can anyone help me out on this? Was this just crap I heard or is it true?

Could Anaheim and Oakland tie for the division, have their playoff and Seattle or Boston gettin in as the Wild Card despite being at least 5 games back of Anaheim/Oakland?

Red Blow · 09-14-2002, 04:40 PM

This would make absolutely no sense. Lose a playoff for the division and lose the wild card?

Bud must be behind it 100%.

twins15 · 09-14-2002, 05:07 PM

That does not sound right at all.

I Am The Game · 09-14-2002, 05:18 PM

I know it does not, that is why I am trying to get some type of confirmation yes or no i anyone knows anything. I thought I heard them sayig something about this possibly happening in 2000 with Sea/Oak/Cle, and in 95 when Ana played Sea in an AL West playoff. But I wasn't into baseball in 95 as I am now so I'm not exactly sure how that went down.

Bluenoser · 09-14-2002, 06:15 PM

That is correct. Example as follows

Yankess go 100 - 62 (Win Division)
BoSox go 90 - 71
Twins go 96 - 66 (Win Division)
A's & Angels go 98 - 64 (Tied for division)

Here is what happens.

Boston gets the wildcard since they are the only team that didn't win or tie for a division title but had a better record than the other 9 teams. Oakland & Anaheim are not considered wildcard teams as neither won or tied for the wildcard, they won or tied for the division.

Oakland and Anaheim would have a 1 game play-off. Winner goes on, loser goes home. You can't win or tie for a division title and also be a wilcard contender. It's one or the other.

The Professor · 09-14-2002, 07:06 PM

Nope...

As I understand it...

Anaheim and Oakland are tied, there is no playoff, one of the two is guaranteed the Wild Card.

...the division winner is:
- the team with the better head-to-head record.
- if the H-to-H is tied, then the team with the better intra-division record wins the division.

...the other team gets the WC.

I could be wrong, but...

Kurtis R. · 09-14-2002, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Professor
Nope...

As I understand it...

Anaheim and Oakland are tied, there is no playoff, one of the two is guaranteed the Wild Card.

...the division winner is:
- the team with the better head-to-head record.
- if the H-to-H is tied, then the team with the better intra-division record wins the division.

...the other team gets the WC.

I could be wrong, but...

I'm 75% sure that it does not go by head to head record.. I am pretty sure it goes by intra - division first.. but I could be wrong

Kurtis

The Professor · 09-14-2002, 07:23 PM

You may be right...I can't recall exactly

origamirazor · 09-14-2002, 07:53 PM

Last year Houston & St Louis tied for the NL Central Title. I believe St Louis got the title because they had a better head to head record. Houston actually had a better division record.

Houston got the wildcard because they had the best record of any team that didn't win the division.

That's how it works. If Oakland & Anaheim tie, and Oakland has a better head to head, Oakland will get the div. title. If Anaheim still has a better record than every other team, they will get the Wild Card.

Le Grande Orange · 09-15-2002, 12:33 AM

Here are the official MLB rules on this scenario:

When there is a tie for a Division Championship and the breaking of the tie will result in the losing team nonetheless being the Wild Card team, the Division Champion shall be:

A) The team with the better record in head-to-head competition, or in the event the teams have the same record in head-to-head competition,

B) The team with the better record, based on winning percentage in intradivisional competition, or, in the event the two teams have the same intradivisional winning percentages,

C) The team with the better record in League competition over the last 81 games played by each team, or, in the event the two teams have the same records over this period,

D) The team with the better record in League competition over the last 82 games, provided that the 82nd game was not a game between the tied teams.

If necessary, the subparagraph (D) procedure of adding the immediately preceding game played by each team records shall be continued until such time as one team emerges with a better record and that team shall thereupon be declared the Division Champion and the other team shall be declared the Wild Card team.

In other words, there's no playoff game if the team that loses would still have the best winning percentage of the non-division winning teams.

If however losing a playoff game would eliminate the team (i.e. after losing the playoff game the team does not have the best winning percentage of the remaining non-divison winning teams) then a playoff game is played between the tied teams.

Again, the official rules:

When there is a tie for a Division Championship and the breaking of that tie will result in the losing team(s) not being the Wild Card team, the tie for the Division Championship shall be broken as follows:

A) Tie between two teams. The League President shall conduct a coin flip to determine the site of a playoff game between the two teams, the game to be played the day after the conclusion of the championship season. The winner of the game shall be declared the Division Champion.

Paragraphs B and C go on to describe how to break three way and four way ties, respectively.

If you're wondering what happens if two teams are tied for the division title, and have the same record as a 2nd place finisher in another division, then this is what happens. A playoff game is played between the teams tied for the division title. The winner becomes the division champion and the loser is eliminated from post-season contention. Why? Because tie-breaking playoff games such as this are counted in the standings, and since they lost the playoff game, their winning percentage is now lower than that of the 2nd place team in the other division.

Things start getting really complicated once you start getting into 3 way ties, so don't ask LOL.

slackmeisterPA · 09-15-2002, 11:50 AM

So we are eliminating Boston's chances to sneak/ backdoor into the playoffs?

Aww man...

AdmiralACF · 05-04-2003, 02:15 AM

How about this scenario? (This actually just happened to me. No joke!)

Philadelphia wins the NL East at 106-56.
Colorado (that's me

) wins the NL West at 96-66.
Atlanta, Florida, and Los Angeles all tie for the wild card spot at 93-69.

Who gets the spot? The game handled it by having a playoff between the Marlins and Braves. The Braves won it, so they got the spot since they were a game ahead of Florida and a half-game ahead of LA. Kinda seems like LA got screwed because, either way, they weren't going to get the spot. I'm not sure why Atlanta and Florida were chosen for the game.

Anyone have any clue about this?

fantom1979 · 05-04-2003, 02:57 AM

The game selected the two teams because of there team id number in the game. This has been discussed before on this board in the past. You might be able to pull something up by using the search function.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 05-04-2003, 03:24 AM

Yeah - you need to manually schedule it if you want to follow actual MLB procedures.

Since LGO hasn't jumped in to answer this one, I'll see if I can remember the rule. Feel free to search for his answer, as it's far more likely to be correct than mine.

Currently, I think the rule is that one of the three teams that tied would be chosen at random. That team would not have to play in the first game, but would be on the road for the second game.

Then, there would be a coin flip between the other two teams. The winner would be at home for the first game.

Thus, it would look like this (teams A, B and C all chosen at random):

Game 1: Team A at Team B

Game 2: Team C at (winner of previous game)

The winner of game 2 would get the wild card. LGO and others, correct me if I'm wrong.....

fantom1979 · 05-04-2003, 04:30 AM

That sounds right Eckstein, I tried to find the thread it was discussed, but with no luck.

Le Grande Orange · 05-04-2003, 03:17 PM

Eckstein 4 Prez has it right, that's how a three-way tie is handled by MLB.

But at present OOTP apparently isn't programmed to properly resolve three-way ties, so it does a two-way tiebreaker by throwing out the third team based on the team's ID number in the game.

You should though be able to do your own three-way tiebreaker by scheduling the necessary games in the schedule editor. Just be sure though that after you proceed to the next season you edit these extra games back out of the schedule, since it'll keep any regular season games you add in the schedule editor.

Carlton_Willey · 04-14-2005, 10:57 AM

I have an odder situation than any discussed in this thread.

Mets finish second in East at 89-73. Cards and Pirates tie for Central, also at 89-73. Pirates beat Cards to win division. Mets get wild card presumably because 89-73 is better than 89-74. My understanding from reading the above (other than it isn't specifically mentioned) is that the Cards should have gotten the wild card, because they tied for division.

Not that it matters all that much to me, but it is an odd situation.

KurtBevacqua · 04-14-2005, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Eckstein 4 Prez has it right, that's how a three-way tie is handled by MLB.

But at present OOTP apparently isn't programmed to properly resolve three-way ties, so it does a two-way tiebreaker by throwing out the third team based on the team's ID number in the game.

You should though be able to do your own three-way tiebreaker by scheduling the necessary games in the schedule editor. Just be sure though that after you proceed to the next season you edit these extra games back out of the schedule, since it'll keep any regular season games you add in the schedule editor.

Actually I went through this on OOTP for a 2005 season a couple weeks ago. The Cards, Cubs and Astros all tied for the div crown. OOTP had the Cards and Cubs play an extra game, the Cards won, and the Astros got the wild card, true to real life form the Cubs were screwed again for losing the tiebreaker game. So it really was resolved the same is IRL.

Dagrims · 04-14-2005, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlton_Willey

I have an odder situation than any discussed in this thread.

Mets finish second in East at 89-73. Cards and Pirates tie for Central, also at 89-73. Pirates beat Cards to win division. Mets get wild card presumably because 89-73 is better than 89-74. My understanding from reading the above (other than it isn't specifically mentioned) is that the Cards should have gotten the wild card, because they tied for division.

Not that it matters all that much to me, but it is an odd situation.

No, the Mets should get the wildcard because they have the better winning percentage. Le Grande Orange explains it in his post:

Quote:

If you're wondering what happens if two teams are tied for the division title, and have the same record as a 2nd place finisher in another division, then this is what happens. A playoff game is played between the teams tied for the division title. The winner becomes the division champion and the loser is eliminated from post-season contention. Why? Because tie-breaking playoff games such as this are counted in the standings, and since they lost the playoff game, their winning percentage is now lower than that of the 2nd place team in the other division.

By the way, thumbs up on excellent use of the search function, particularly for a first-time poster.

Brick · 04-14-2005, 12:55 PM

That was the situation before. However, MLB has changed its rules. In the scenario described above, the loser, in the case the Cardinals, would play the Mets for the wild card.

Tiebreaking games only apply when there are more teams tied than available playoff spots. If in the above scenario, the Mets had a worse record than the Pirates and Cardinals, there would not be a play-off at all. Either the Pirates or Cardinals would be granted the division title based on tie-breaking procedures. The other would be the wild-card. Those tie-breaking procedures are similar to those found in other leagues, i.e., head-to-head, record within division, tec.

09-14-2002, 03:59 PM	#1
I Am The Game All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Red Sox Nation Posts: 691	Teams Tying for Division Winning Wild Card? I thought I heard some stuff about if two teams tie for the division when they have their playoff, the winner gets the division the loser gets jack and the runner-up of the Wild Card becomes the Wild Card runner? Can anyone help me out on this? Was this just crap I heard or is it true? Could Anaheim and Oakland tie for the division, have their playoff and Seattle or Boston gettin in as the Wild Card despite being at least 5 games back of Anaheim/Oakland?

09-14-2002, 04:40 PM	#2
Red Blow Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 404	This would make absolutely no sense. Lose a playoff for the division and lose the wild card? Bud must be behind it 100%. __________________ http://www.nobl.net This is your father's league.

09-14-2002, 05:07 PM	#3
twins15 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Area 51 Posts: 4,792	That does not sound right at all. __________________ "Ah man we're just hungry man" - Dovonte Edwards Bismarck Boy Scouts of the OTBL - league yes-man Ross Gload at baseball-reference.com Book Quotes and Book Lists

09-14-2002, 06:15 PM	#5
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,216	That is correct. Example as follows Yankess go 100 - 62 (Win Division) BoSox go 90 - 71 Twins go 96 - 66 (Win Division) A's & Angels go 98 - 64 (Tied for division) Here is what happens. Boston gets the wildcard since they are the only team that didn't win or tie for a division title but had a better record than the other 9 teams. Oakland & Anaheim are not considered wildcard teams as neither won or tied for the wildcard, they won or tied for the division. Oakland and Anaheim would have a 1 game play-off. Winner goes on, loser goes home. You can't win or tie for a division title and also be a wilcard contender. It's one or the other. Last edited by Bluenoser; 09-14-2002 at 07:04 PM.

09-14-2002, 07:06 PM	#6
The Professor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: East of East Posts: 3,020	Nope... As I understand it... Anaheim and Oakland are tied, there is no playoff, one of the two is guaranteed the Wild Card. ...the division winner is: - the team with the better head-to-head record. - if the H-to-H is tied, then the team with the better intra-division record wins the division. ...the other team gets the WC. I could be wrong, but... __________________ History isn't really about the past - settling old scores. It's about defining the present and who we are."

09-14-2002, 05:18 PM	#4
I Am The Game All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Red Sox Nation Posts: 691	I know it does not, that is why I am trying to get some type of confirmation yes or no i anyone knows anything. I thought I heard them sayig something about this possibly happening in 2000 with Sea/Oak/Cle, and in 95 when Ana played Sea in an AL West playoff. But I wasn't into baseball in 95 as I am now so I'm not exactly sure how that went down.

09-14-2002, 07:23 PM	#8
The Professor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: East of East Posts: 3,020	You may be right...I can't recall exactly __________________ History isn't really about the past - settling old scores. It's about defining the present and who we are."

09-14-2002, 07:53 PM	#9
origamirazor Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 70	Last year Houston & St Louis tied for the NL Central Title. I believe St Louis got the title because they had a better head to head record. Houston actually had a better division record. Houston got the wildcard because they had the best record of any team that didn't win the division. That's how it works. If Oakland & Anaheim tie, and Oakland has a better head to head, Oakland will get the div. title. If Anaheim still has a better record than every other team, they will get the Wild Card.

09-15-2002, 12:33 AM	#10
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	Here are the official MLB rules on this scenario: When there is a tie for a Division Championship and the breaking of the tie will result in the losing team nonetheless being the Wild Card team, the Division Champion shall be: A) The team with the better record in head-to-head competition, or in the event the teams have the same record in head-to-head competition, B) The team with the better record, based on winning percentage in intradivisional competition, or, in the event the two teams have the same intradivisional winning percentages, C) The team with the better record in League competition over the last 81 games played by each team, or, in the event the two teams have the same records over this period, D) The team with the better record in League competition over the last 82 games, provided that the 82nd game was not a game between the tied teams. If necessary, the subparagraph (D) procedure of adding the immediately preceding game played by each team records shall be continued until such time as one team emerges with a better record and that team shall thereupon be declared the Division Champion and the other team shall be declared the Wild Card team. In other words, there's no playoff game if the team that loses would still have the best winning percentage of the non-division winning teams. If however losing a playoff game would eliminate the team (i.e. after losing the playoff game the team does not have the best winning percentage of the remaining non-divison winning teams) then a playoff game is played between the tied teams. Again, the official rules: When there is a tie for a Division Championship and the breaking of that tie will result in the losing team(s) not being the Wild Card team, the tie for the Division Championship shall be broken as follows: A) Tie between two teams. The League President shall conduct a coin flip to determine the site of a playoff game between the two teams, the game to be played the day after the conclusion of the championship season. The winner of the game shall be declared the Division Champion. Paragraphs B and C go on to describe how to break three way and four way ties, respectively. If you're wondering what happens if two teams are tied for the division title, and have the same record as a 2nd place finisher in another division, then this is what happens. A playoff game is played between the teams tied for the division title. The winner becomes the division champion and the loser is eliminated from post-season contention. Why? Because tie-breaking playoff games such as this are counted in the standings, and since they lost the playoff game, their winning percentage is now lower than that of the 2nd place team in the other division. Things start getting really complicated once you start getting into 3 way ties, so don't ask LOL.

09-15-2002, 11:50 AM	#11
slackmeisterPA Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 275	So we are eliminating Boston's chances to sneak/ backdoor into the playoffs? Aww man...

05-04-2003, 02:15 AM	#12
AdmiralACF Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 85	How about this scenario? (This actually just happened to me. No joke!) Philadelphia wins the NL East at 106-56. Colorado (that's me ) wins the NL West at 96-66. Atlanta, Florida, and Los Angeles all tie for the wild card spot at 93-69. Who gets the spot? The game handled it by having a playoff between the Marlins and Braves. The Braves won it, so they got the spot since they were a game ahead of Florida and a half-game ahead of LA. Kinda seems like LA got screwed because, either way, they weren't going to get the spot. I'm not sure why Atlanta and Florida were chosen for the game. Anyone have any clue about this? __________________ AdmiralACF Retired General Manager, Oklahoma Twisters, 2003-2007 Appalachian Southern Division Champions- 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 Appalachian League Champions- 2004, 2005, 2007 2007 POTD World Champions!!!! Pioneers of the Diamond Baseball

05-04-2003, 02:57 AM	#13
fantom1979 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 3,498	The game selected the two teams because of there team id number in the game. This has been discussed before on this board in the past. You might be able to pull something up by using the search function. __________________

05-04-2003, 03:24 AM	#14
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	Yeah - you need to manually schedule it if you want to follow actual MLB procedures. Since LGO hasn't jumped in to answer this one, I'll see if I can remember the rule. Feel free to search for his answer, as it's far more likely to be correct than mine. Currently, I think the rule is that one of the three teams that tied would be chosen at random. That team would not have to play in the first game, but would be on the road for the second game. Then, there would be a coin flip between the other two teams. The winner would be at home for the first game. Thus, it would look like this (teams A, B and C all chosen at random): Game 1: Team A at Team B Game 2: Team C at (winner of previous game) The winner of game 2 would get the wild card. LGO and others, correct me if I'm wrong..... __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.

05-04-2003, 04:30 AM	#15
fantom1979 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 3,498	That sounds right Eckstein, I tried to find the thread it was discussed, but with no luck. __________________

05-04-2003, 03:17 PM	#16
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	Eckstein 4 Prez has it right, that's how a three-way tie is handled by MLB. But at present OOTP apparently isn't programmed to properly resolve three-way ties, so it does a two-way tiebreaker by throwing out the third team based on the team's ID number in the game. You should though be able to do your own three-way tiebreaker by scheduling the necessary games in the schedule editor. Just be sure though that after you proceed to the next season you edit these extra games back out of the schedule, since it'll keep any regular season games you add in the schedule editor.

04-14-2005, 10:57 AM	#17
Carlton_Willey Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 354	I have an odder situation than any discussed in this thread. Mets finish second in East at 89-73. Cards and Pirates tie for Central, also at 89-73. Pirates beat Cards to win division. Mets get wild card presumably because 89-73 is better than 89-74. My understanding from reading the above (other than it isn't specifically mentioned) is that the Cards should have gotten the wild card, because they tied for division. Not that it matters all that much to me, but it is an odd situation.

04-14-2005, 12:55 PM	#20
Brick Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: A legend in my own mind Posts: 289	That was the situation before. However, MLB has changed its rules. In the scenario described above, the loser, in the case the Cardinals, would play the Mets for the wild card. Tiebreaking games only apply when there are more teams tied than available playoff spots. If in the above scenario, the Mets had a worse record than the Pirates and Cardinals, there would not be a play-off at all. Either the Pirates or Cardinals would be granted the division title based on tie-breaking procedures. The other would be the wild-card. Those tie-breaking procedures are similar to those found in other leagues, i.e., head-to-head, record within division, tec.