no H2H in next patch--how do I get my money back for OOTP6?

bplotkin · 09-21-2004, 01:12 PM

I bought this game specifically for the promise of H2H. The game has been out for seven months now, with no H2H in sight. How many times has it been said it's around the corner, and nothing. And considering what Markus said in his post of 9/19, it's not coming anytime soon.

I feel I was sold this game under false pretenses at this point. I'd appreciate it if someone at OOTPDev would tell me how I can get my money back for it.

Steve Kuffrey · 09-21-2004, 01:52 PM

Check your PM.

jnshmoo · 09-21-2004, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bplotkin

I bought this game specifically for the promise of H2H. The game has been out for seven months now, with no H2H in sight. How many times has it been said it's around the corner, and nothing. And considering what Markus said in his post of 9/19, it's not coming anytime soon.

I feel I was sold this game under false pretenses at this point. I'd appreciate it if someone at OOTPDev would tell me how I can get my money back for it.

Sucks to be you.

phenom · 09-21-2004, 02:27 PM

<---wonders if a request for refund on ITP will be next for bplotkin

Big Willis 16 · 09-21-2004, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bplotkin

I bought this game specifically for the promise of H2H. The game has been out for seven months now, with no H2H in sight. How many times has it been said it's around the corner, and nothing. And considering what Markus said in his post of 9/19, it's not coming anytime soon.

I feel I was sold this game under false pretenses at this point. I'd appreciate it if someone at OOTPDev would tell me how I can get my money back for it.

PM's work wonders, try it sometime.

rem · 09-21-2004, 11:22 PM

I'd love to know what that PM said.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 09-21-2004, 11:25 PM

From the "truth in posting" department:

OOTP6 has actually been out for five months, not seven.

jcwean · 09-27-2004, 11:34 AM

i must say that while i'm not looking for my money back it, the h2h has been something i've been wondering about.

if i recall correctly, markus held an informal poll and asked us if we wanted "the ootp6 release immediately without h2h and get the patch later" or "to wait for the whole thing released together". overwhelmingly, we said "release it now!". well... 5 months later and no patch. i find it disconcerting that since the last patch OOTP has gone to SI probably making the promise of a h2h component a broken one.

but it begs the question that if the component was so close to completion in march or april why has it taken so long to get out.

just wonderin'... please flame me medium-rare.

phenom · 09-27-2004, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcwean

...but it begs the question that if the component was so close to completion in march or april why has it taken so long to get out.
...

I think it was "close" based on the assumption that the online component Markus hoped to use would work. Alas, it did not, requiring Markus to code it himself, which he admitted to struggling with somewhat, which then resulted in the delay we're experiencing now.

jnshmoo · 09-27-2004, 11:41 AM

Ok, he's been flamed rare. Who wants to step up and cook him a little more?

(personally, I prefer mine Pittsburgh Style.)

GForce · 09-27-2004, 12:05 PM

Honestly, I don't get why guys are ripping him. Something was said to be in the product...it was not in the product. The product was bought on the assumption the missing feature would be remedied. It hasn't been. He, and anyone else who care to seek a refund are well within their right to do so, and are justified in that action.

If you bought an entertainment center from a furniture store and it was missing the shelf to rest the TV on, but were told that shelf would be sent to you...then were told that's not going to happen, you would have every right to seek your money back because a part that was said by the maker of the product to be part of it was not included and will never be received.

The only possible argument against this is that the refund should have been requested earlier if it was such an issue. Eck's the law guy, so he'd know far better than I how that would work legally (not to put you on the spot, Eck.).

GH

jnshmoo · 09-27-2004, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GForce

Honestly, I don't guy why guys are ripping him. Something was said to be in the product...it was not in the product. The product was bought on the assumption the missing feature would be remedied. It hasn't been. He, and anyone else who care to seek a refund are well within their right to do so, and are justified in that action.

If you bought an entertainment center from a furniture store and it was missing the shelf to rest the TV on, but were told that shelf would be sent to you...then were told that's not going to happen, you would have every right to seek your money back because a part that was said by the maker of the product to be part of it was not included and will never be received.

The only possible argument against this is that the refund should have been requested earlier if it was such an issue. Eck's the law guy, so he'd know far better than I how that would work legally (not to put you on the spot, Eck.).

GH

As was mentioned, he could have just PM'ed his request for a refund. If he wants one, all the power to him. With all of the bitching around here lately, he was basically just piling on.

I agree with a lot of the complaints that have been flying around lately. I just get a real laugh out of the "I bought this game specifically for H2H" comments. To use your example, it's like saying you bought the entertainment center specifically for the shelf. Why bother? There are a bunch of other "shelves" out there. Some of them even do a better job than this particular one. So, if you aren't interested in any of the other features of the entertainment center, why buy it just to get the shelf?

phenom · 09-27-2004, 12:17 PM

uhh... I didn't rip him.

Joe Canadian · 09-27-2004, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GForce

Honestly, I don't guy why guys are ripping him. Something was said to be in the product...it was not in the product. The product was bought on the assumption the missing feature would be remedied. It hasn't been. He, and anyone else who care to seek a refund are well within their right to do so, and are justified in that action.

If you bought an entertainment center from a furniture store and it was missing the shelf to rest the TV on, but were told that shelf would be sent to you...then were told that's not going to happen, you would have every right to seek your money back because a part that was said by the maker of the product to be part of it was not included and will never be received.

The only possible argument against this is that the refund should have been requested earlier if it was such an issue. Eck's the law guy, so he'd know far better than I how that would work legally (not to put you on the spot, Eck.).

GH

Agreed 100%. Personally I think Markus's time spent on H2H is just a waste of his talent, I don't have a need for it nor do I want it in the game... I'd rather he take the GM/Owner/Commish portions of the game to a higher level with expansion/contration/agents/owners/etc. However, H2H was a planned feature and it has been a long time comming... if people are annoyed with this they have a right to ask for a refund and/or post their frustration. And no I'm not saying Markus has been dragging us along, I do believe he's had trouble coding it and is working his hardest to get it in... it's just for some it's a longer wait then they wanted.

I don't know who the original poster is or what his motivations are... but I don't even think it matters. It seems like all critisisms, requests for refunds, etc. have to be made behind closed doors around here... Someone didn't like the game... WHO CARES??? There's a truck load of us who do... let the guy ask for a refund publicly.

dbacks · 09-27-2004, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnshmoo

As was mentioned, he could have just PM'ed his request for a refund. If he wants one, all the power to him. With all of the bitching around here lately, he was basically just piling on.

I agree with a lot of the complaints that have been flying around lately. I just get a real laugh out of the "I bought this game specifically for H2H" comments. To use your example, it's like saying you bought the entertainment center specifically for the shelf. Why bother? There are a bunch of other "shelves" out there. Some of them even do a better job than this particular one. So, if you aren't interested in any of the other features of the entertainment center, why buy it just to get the shelf?

Good example. And what I also find funny is that they never said that H2H was included. They said that it was coming soon. I find it hard to believe that anybody would buy a product for something that it doesn't have. It seems to me it would be a little more logical that if you're going to buy OOTP specifically for a feature that hasn't yet been included, that you would wait until it HAS been before you buy it.

On the other hand... expecting some of the people around here to do something logical is pretty pointless.

Matteo · 09-27-2004, 01:48 PM

Have I read this before :sigh:

Cooleyvol · 09-27-2004, 02:26 PM

Dude,
If that's the only reason you bought this game, then you're missing a WHOLE lot of other great things that this game will do.

rem · 09-27-2004, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbacks

Good example. And what I also find funny is that they never said that H2H was included. They said that it was coming soon. I find it hard to believe that anybody would buy a product for something that it doesn't have. It seems to me it would be a little more logical that if you're going to buy OOTP specifically for a feature that hasn't yet been included, that you would wait until it HAS been before you buy it.

On the other hand... expecting some of the people around here to do something logical is pretty pointless.

H2H was listed as a feature which would be in the game. It was not changed to "Coming Soon" on the features list untill well after the game's release.

dbacks · 09-27-2004, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by remangiii

H2H was listed as a feature which would be in the game. It was not changed to "Coming Soon" on the features list untill well after the game's release.

Oh, ok

MrWorkrate · 09-27-2004, 04:14 PM

It's more along the lines of buyer beware. If a feature doesn't exist - whether it's being worked on or not mentioned in the slightest - then it's not there. Buyers should treat it as if they'll never see it, because there's always the possibility that it might.

Now if OOTPDevelopments is going to offer refunds to people who request them on the sole basis of H2H, that's fine, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. We're eventually going to get to the point where we've gone past "dissatisfied with product because of missing feature" and moved to "don't really play anymore because the baseball season is winding down". There are surely a decent amount of players of the game whose OOTP playing goes down during the baseball offseason due to football season starting up and focus shifting. I should know, I was one of those people (and might be again, although online leagues have changed that somewhat).

So where do you draw the line? OOTP's already been out for five months. If you haven't come to the conclusion that H2H may not be reality in this edition and you've had the game since release, then you're naive. There's no reason to hold onto a game for five months if you think it's "unplayable". You're either playing the game without the feature, or don't care enough either way to care. The game is missing a feature. I agree that if you bought the game with the sole intention that you wanted to use that feature, then yes, you should get a refund if you so desire one.

However, I'd be concerned that people who have managed to enjoy the game despite the lack of the feature will state that they want their money back in an effort to get a free "rental" of OOTP6 that they don't play anymore.

09-21-2004, 01:12 PM	#1
bplotkin Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 220 Infractions: 0/3 (4)	no H2H in next patch--how do I get my money back for OOTP6? I bought this game specifically for the promise of H2H. The game has been out for seven months now, with no H2H in sight. How many times has it been said it's around the corner, and nothing. And considering what Markus said in his post of 9/19, it's not coming anytime soon. I feel I was sold this game under false pretenses at this point. I'd appreciate it if someone at OOTPDev would tell me how I can get my money back for it.

09-21-2004, 01:52 PM	#2
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,036	Check your PM. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

09-21-2004, 02:27 PM	#4
phenom Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Near the Great Wall. On the GOOD side. Posts: 3,774	<---wonders if a request for refund on ITP will be next for bplotkin __________________ reported

09-21-2004, 11:22 PM	#6
rem Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: College Park, Md. Posts: 5,024	I'd love to know what that PM said. __________________ OTBA: Washington Filibusters CLBR: Minnesota Twins 2005 Winner of LL's Pick the Loser Contest! - 15-0

09-21-2004, 11:25 PM	#7
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	From the "truth in posting" department: OOTP6 has actually been out for five months, not seven. __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.

09-27-2004, 11:34 AM	#8
jcwean Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 31	all emotion aside... i must say that while i'm not looking for my money back it, the h2h has been something i've been wondering about. if i recall correctly, markus held an informal poll and asked us if we wanted "the ootp6 release immediately without h2h and get the patch later" or "to wait for the whole thing released together". overwhelmingly, we said "release it now!". well... 5 months later and no patch. i find it disconcerting that since the last patch OOTP has gone to SI probably making the promise of a h2h component a broken one. but it begs the question that if the component was so close to completion in march or april why has it taken so long to get out. just wonderin'... please flame me medium-rare.

09-27-2004, 11:41 AM	#10
jnshmoo All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Not Here Posts: 1,226	Ok, he's been flamed rare. Who wants to step up and cook him a little more? (personally, I prefer mine Pittsburgh Style.) __________________ Beer Snob and Baseball Sim Geek

09-27-2004, 12:05 PM	#11
GForce Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,458 Infractions: 0/2 (2)	Honestly, I don't get why guys are ripping him. Something was said to be in the product...it was not in the product. The product was bought on the assumption the missing feature would be remedied. It hasn't been. He, and anyone else who care to seek a refund are well within their right to do so, and are justified in that action. If you bought an entertainment center from a furniture store and it was missing the shelf to rest the TV on, but were told that shelf would be sent to you...then were told that's not going to happen, you would have every right to seek your money back because a part that was said by the maker of the product to be part of it was not included and will never be received. The only possible argument against this is that the refund should have been requested earlier if it was such an issue. Eck's the law guy, so he'd know far better than I how that would work legally (not to put you on the spot, Eck.). GH Last edited by GForce; 09-27-2004 at 01:55 PM.

09-27-2004, 12:17 PM	#13
phenom Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Near the Great Wall. On the GOOD side. Posts: 3,774	uhh... I didn't rip him. __________________ reported

09-27-2004, 01:48 PM	#16
Matteo Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL Posts: 473	Have I read this before :sigh: __________________ ESPN The Show live chat during 2004 ALCS: Julie (Boston): Do you think Jeter does the fist pump everytime he disappoints a woman in bed? Or does he save it for when he's with A-Rod? Bill Simmons: Whoops - I didn't mean to post that. Really, I didn't.

09-27-2004, 02:26 PM	#17
Cooleyvol Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Union City, TN Posts: 6,383	Dude, If that's the only reason you bought this game, then you're missing a WHOLE lot of other great things that this game will do.

09-27-2004, 04:14 PM	#20
MrWorkrate All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,262	It's more along the lines of buyer beware. If a feature doesn't exist - whether it's being worked on or not mentioned in the slightest - then it's not there. Buyers should treat it as if they'll never see it, because there's always the possibility that it might. Now if OOTPDevelopments is going to offer refunds to people who request them on the sole basis of H2H, that's fine, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. We're eventually going to get to the point where we've gone past "dissatisfied with product because of missing feature" and moved to "don't really play anymore because the baseball season is winding down". There are surely a decent amount of players of the game whose OOTP playing goes down during the baseball offseason due to football season starting up and focus shifting. I should know, I was one of those people (and might be again, although online leagues have changed that somewhat). So where do you draw the line? OOTP's already been out for five months. If you haven't come to the conclusion that H2H may not be reality in this edition and you've had the game since release, then you're naive. There's no reason to hold onto a game for five months if you think it's "unplayable". You're either playing the game without the feature, or don't care enough either way to care. The game is missing a feature. I agree that if you bought the game with the sole intention that you wanted to use that feature, then yes, you should get a refund if you so desire one. However, I'd be concerned that people who have managed to enjoy the game despite the lack of the feature will state that they want their money back in an effort to get a free "rental" of OOTP6 that they don't play anymore. __________________ I used to come here a lot. Now, not so much.