Apparently Cashman isn't as smart as I used to think...

PotatoPeeler · 11-11-2004, 03:24 PM

Not a Yankees fan by any stretch of the means, but I have a lot of respect for Brian Cashman. However, I was shocked when he said the following...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Cashman

Brian Cashman wanted to make this perfectly clear: The umpires were correct when they called Alex Rodriguez out for interference on that crazy play during the AL championship series.

"They got it completely right, 100 percent," the New York Yankees' general manager said this week.

"But you would hate to have a game, or a series or even a season come down to a play where they miss it and instant replay could have helped," he said. "So as far as instant replay, I'm in favor of it."

Rest of the article here: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1920469

PhilyMouth · 11-11-2004, 03:26 PM

I dont get it? Are you for or against instant replay? To me he seems like he just didnt want to sound spiteful over the ARod play.

Melo · 11-11-2004, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilyMouth

I dont get it? Are you for or against instant replay? To me he seems like he just didnt want to sound spiteful over the ARod play.

That's how I took it too. Cashman said it well as much as I hate to admit it.

JDOldSchool · 11-11-2004, 04:15 PM

I agree with every single word Cashman said. Baseball will be a much, MUCH better game with replay.

Skipaway · 11-11-2004, 04:20 PM

The instant replay thing will be in the game sooner or later. Technology has been giving TV viewers more and more information, and it wouldn't make much sense for the viewers to see the umpires making "obvious" mistakes.

SoxWin · 11-11-2004, 04:31 PM

Good for him, Slappy could learn some lessons in class from that.

TheRockCT · 11-11-2004, 04:31 PM

Replay will be in the game soon, no doubt about it. Everything Cashman said looked good to me, the only thing I could think of was that Big George might still be in denial over the whole thing.

dbacks · 11-11-2004, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

Baseball will be a much, MUCH better game with replay.

I dunno. Baseball will be a much more accurately called game with replay, but I have my doubts as to if that will make the game better. Human error, in my opinion, is part of the game.

CBL-Commish · 11-11-2004, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbacks

I dunno. Baseball will be a much more accurately called game with replay, but I have my doubts as to if that will make the game better. Human error, in my opinion, is part of the game.

You're exacly right.

Signed,
Jeffrey Maier

thehatfield · 11-11-2004, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbacks

I dunno. Baseball will be a much more accurately called game with replay, but I have my doubts as to if that will make the game better. Human error, in my opinion, is part of the game.

Well said.

The lore of the game will take a huge hit if/when instant replay is brought in. How upset are fans & players going to be if replay overturns an incorrect decision or justifies a correct one? How upset would they be if they had a bad call against them? What would it mean to rivalries in general and in specific the next time that team is in town?

And, as we've seen in the NFL (pats v. raiders comes to mind), when they decide to screw someone (or, more accurately, when the spread needs a backdoor cover and they call upon some arcane, never previously enforced by-law in the rules to justifiy their screwing) it really makes me suspend my belief that I'm seeing a "true" competition.

KILLERBS24 · 11-11-2004, 07:11 PM

Baseball will never go to replay and they shouldn't.

Green & Gold Heart · 11-11-2004, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KILLERBS24

Baseball will never go to replay and they shouldn't.

Agreed, for all the reasons mentioned above. Also - when they're trying to shorten games, why would they do something that would guarentee games go at least 30 minutes longer?

JDOldSchool · 11-11-2004, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbacks

I dunno. Baseball will be a much more accurately called game with replay, but I have my doubts as to if that will make the game better. Human error, in my opinion, is part of the game.

More accurate = better.

Umpires are not playing. They should not be involved in a poor decision that affects the game's outcome.

JDOldSchool · 11-11-2004, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green & Gold Heart

Agreed, for all the reasons mentioned above. Also - when they're trying to shorten games, why would they do something that would guarentee games go at least 30 minutes longer?

I'd rather each baseball game be 8 hours long and every single call was right than a 2 hour 30 minute game filled with mistakes. I can not, and will not EVER understand the mindset that thinks it's ok to accept poor officiating.

And for those who claim bad calls "even out," prove it. I want data. I want data that shows that every bad call is "evened out" by another bad call (but in that team's favor) with the exact same consequences. Because as far as I'm concerned, if one team in baseball gets that 1 extra bad call that causes them to lose that 1 extra game... that's a travesty and destroys the integrity of the game completely. The sport is not being played on a level playing field... quite simply, it's not fair and hardly worth playing if the umpires have more control over the game than the players.

JDOldSchool · 11-11-2004, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Cowboy

And, as we've seen in the NFL (pats v. raiders comes to mind), when they decide to screw someone (or, more accurately, when the spread needs a backdoor cover and they call upon some arcane, never previously enforced by-law in the rules to justifiy their screwing) it really makes me suspend my belief that I'm seeing a "true" competition.

You really should familiarize yourself with the NFL Rulebook. The referees made the right call in that game. It's the rule that is flawed. The ref just went by the rule.

To me, seeing umpires not call home runs as they should makes me question how "true" the competition is.

CMH · 11-11-2004, 11:57 PM

Who needs video when they could just have robots monitor the outfield walls and call balls and strikes so accurate Tom Glavine would have had to retire 10 years ago.

ihatenames · 11-12-2004, 06:39 AM

i'm for replay on everything but balls and strikes. I'm in favor or reply on catches/traps homeruns/foul balls, and the like. But never on balls and strikes.

ctorg · 11-12-2004, 08:09 AM

Anything that would remove the subjective bias of umpires is good, IMO. The idea is to make as accurate a call as possible, to not have human error. The idea of human error being involved in judging the game means it's a flawed game and the results are illegitimate and subjective.

Umpires are supposed to be impartial and objective. If there is a system that can accomplish their job better than they can, I'm all for it. If there's a tool that can help them make more accurate calls, I'm for that, too. Computerize the strike zone calls, give instant replays, etc.

As far as getting a system to work right, well, that could take some work. But the idea of human error being part of the game is, to me (no offense meant to anyone) pointless sentimentality for a time when there were no other options. It's like relying on scouts to judge amateur players by watching them and ignoring newer, possibly better tools to judge players. Sure, it's the way the game has been, but there's a better way that it could be.

PotatoPeeler · 11-12-2004, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilyMouth

I dont get it? Are you for or against instant replay? To me he seems like he just didnt want to sound spiteful over the ARod play.

Just to clarify, I'm stronly against it. I don't want to see it and I think it would be folly for baseball to implement it.

thehatfield · 11-12-2004, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

You really should familiarize yourself with the NFL Rulebook. The referees made the right call in that game. It's the rule that is flawed. The ref just went by the rule.

To me, seeing umpires not call home runs as they should makes me question how "true" the competition is.

We disagree there!

I remembered reading an article in SI that that rule hadn't been enforced for some number of years, no? I'm not of the mind that it appearing in a rulebook makes it right for refs to use it selectively. Usually they give warning each season when they're digging up "old rules" so everyone is aware, no? Why should I bother to familiarize myself with a rulebook that is enforced only if enough money is riding on the game?

11-11-2004, 04:20 PM	#5
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	The instant replay thing will be in the game sooner or later. Technology has been giving TV viewers more and more information, and it wouldn't make much sense for the viewers to see the umpires making "obvious" mistakes. __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

11-11-2004, 04:31 PM	#6
SoxWin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Blissful ignorance Posts: 3,315	Good for him, Slappy could learn some lessons in class from that. __________________ It's called partying. When you do a lot of it, you're bound to be places where the police show up. I smoke a lot of pot and drink a lot of beer. I also graduated Suma Cum Laude. ***ing sue me. - Luis Rivera Last edited by SoxWin; 11-11-2004 at 04:45 PM.*

11-11-2004, 04:31 PM	#7
TheRockCT All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: TN Posts: 1,083	Replay will be in the game soon, no doubt about it. Everything Cashman said looked good to me, the only thing I could think of was that Big George might still be in denial over the whole thing. __________________ GM, Vermont Emperor Penguins - POTD POTD Champions: 2011, 2012, 2013 GM, Monterrey Aztecs* - NABA *NABA Champions: 2013

11-12-2004, 06:39 AM	#17
ihatenames Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Rockford Posts: 2,534	i'm for replay on everything but balls and strikes. I'm in favor or reply on catches/traps homeruns/foul balls, and the like. But never on balls and strikes. __________________ New Album coming soon!

11-12-2004, 08:09 AM	#18
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Anything that would remove the subjective bias of umpires is good, IMO. The idea is to make as accurate a call as possible, to not have human error. The idea of human error being involved in judging the game means it's a flawed game and the results are illegitimate and subjective. Umpires are supposed to be impartial and objective. If there is a system that can accomplish their job better than they can, I'm all for it. If there's a tool that can help them make more accurate calls, I'm for that, too. Computerize the strike zone calls, give instant replays, etc. As far as getting a system to work right, well, that could take some work. But the idea of human error being part of the game is, to me (no offense meant to anyone) pointless sentimentality for a time when there were no other options. It's like relying on scouts to judge amateur players by watching them and ignoring newer, possibly better tools to judge players. Sure, it's the way the game has been, but there's a better way that it could be. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

11-11-2004, 03:26 PM	#2
PhilyMouth Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2002 Location: Queens Posts: 106	I dont get it? Are you for or against instant replay? To me he seems like he just didnt want to sound spiteful over the ARod play.

11-11-2004, 04:15 PM	#4
JDOldSchool Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,023	I agree with every single word Cashman said. Baseball will be a much, MUCH better game with replay.

11-11-2004, 07:11 PM	#11
KILLERBS24 All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 938	Baseball will never go to replay and they shouldn't.

11-11-2004, 11:57 PM	#16
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	Who needs video when they could just have robots monitor the outfield walls and call balls and strikes so accurate Tom Glavine would have had to retire 10 years ago.