Pinch-runner AI Bug

Eckstein 4 Prez · 09-16-2004, 11:50 AM

Look, I understand that sometimes you want to bring in a pinch-runner late in a close game, but could the AI please stop doing this:

Top of the tenth, tie game. Batter is the shortstop, who's rated 7 for range at SS, and is 6/6 for speed/steals (all ratings on 1-10 scale). Batter gets a single, and is promptly pulled for a pinch-runner who is 7/8 for speed/steals.

For the bottom of the inning, the AI has to put in a guy at SS who's rated a 2 in defensive range.

Look, if the AI is replacing Mo Vaughn on the basepaths with Tim Raines, sometimes that's a play you'll want to make. But these guys are so similar in ratings that this play is absurd.

Bottom line - the AI needs to stop having so many YES/NO switches. I'm sure it's just a flowchart-type reasoning where the AI asks, "Is there a pinch-runner available who is faster than the current baserunner?" This kind of simplistic reasoning needs to STOP. Like three versions ago.

draven085 · 09-16-2004, 11:59 AM

Good luck with that. I'm telling you amigo, just don't look at the game logs and you'll enjoy OOTP a lot more.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 09-16-2004, 12:06 PM

I'm playing games out in my solo league. That's why this has lately been such an irritation. Previously, I'd only simmed in my solo league.

Besides, I've decided to if nothing else make myself visible by complaining each time a bug like this arises during my gameplay. I figure that I play 3-4 games a day, and about 50% of them are infected with some kind of gameplay bug, so that's two posts a day for the team, plus replies like this one. I can give that much.

jmm8356 · 09-16-2004, 01:26 PM

This is bad in the 10th, but worse in the 7th, IMO. Guys who bat in the 7th should get up to the plate one more time, especially if you're making a comeback (which is probably the case if the AI wants to bring in a pinch runner at all).

I once saw the AI put in four pinch-runners in a row, removing either #3-#6 or #4-#7 from the lineup. All those guys ended up batting again in the 8th... hard to make a comeback without the heart of your order.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 09-16-2004, 01:35 PM

The AI really needs to stop this flowchart-style reasoning and start balancing various factors. This is the number one thing I'll be looking for in version 7, and if it's not there, I don't buy.

Meanwhile, let's fix this pinch-run bug.

JDOldSchool · 09-16-2004, 01:49 PM

Even worse than your example is when the AI will pinch hit/run for a player and then have to use another player out of position to take his place. This happens way too often.

I'm also tired of the AI not knowing how to play outfielders. One guy will qualify at LF and RF, the other at just LF. What happens? The guy who qualifies at LF only will be playing RF and the other guy will be in left field. It makes no sense, but I guarantee at least one team in your league has this set up for their depth chart/lineup.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 09-16-2004, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

Even worse than your example is when the AI will pinch hit/run for a player and then have to use another player out of position to take his place. This happens way too often.

I'm also tired of the AI not knowing how to play outfielders. One guy will qualify at LF and RF, the other at just LF. What happens? The guy who qualifies at LF only will be playing RF and the other guy will be in left field. It makes no sense, but I guarantee at least one team in your league has this set up for their depth chart/lineup.

Your first point is dead-on. About half the time I end up with guys out of position when the pinch-run bug strikes.

Your second is also true, although it was about 50 times more true before the 6.03 patch. Basically, I had 10-12 teams in a 28-team league afflicted with this problem before 6.03, Now, I'm only running a 9-team league, but none of them are afflicted. I did have one team last season that still had the problem though.

JDOldSchool · 09-16-2004, 03:02 PM

I think one of the problems with players being out of position is that the game never switches a position for a player.

For example: A team pinch hits for its shortstop. The starting second baseman qualifies at short, but nobody else does. If that team has a player that qualifies at 2B on the bench, it would make sense that the AI should put the starting 2B at SS and the bench player would move to 2B.

Instead, the game will just take the first available player, often the catcher, and throw him in at shortstop. It's like the AI just evaluates what bench player is best for the substitution and not what player on the entire roster is best for each position.

disposableheros · 09-16-2004, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

I think one of the problems with players being out of position is that the game never switches a position for a player.

For example: A team pinch hits for its shortstop. The starting second baseman qualifies at short, but nobody else does. If that team has a player that qualifies at 2B on the bench, it would make sense that the AI should put the starting 2B at SS and the bench player would move to 2B.

Instead, the game will just take the first available player, often the catcher, and throw him in at shortstop. It's like the AI just evaluates what bench player is best for the substitution and not what player on the entire roster is best for each position.

bingo, i think we have a winner. i absolutely hate this problem.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 09-16-2004, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

I think one of the problems with players being out of position is that the game never switches a position for a player.

For example: A team pinch hits for its shortstop. The starting second baseman qualifies at short, but nobody else does. If that team has a player that qualifies at 2B on the bench, it would make sense that the AI should put the starting 2B at SS and the bench player would move to 2B.

Instead, the game will just take the first available player, often the catcher, and throw him in at shortstop. It's like the AI just evaluates what bench player is best for the substitution and not what player on the entire roster is best for each position.

The odd thing about that is that it doesn't work that way all of the time. If I look through my old box scores, I can find some instances where the game changes a guy's position, and then some where it just brings in someone not rated at a given position. Whatever the logic is, it's wrong - but not wrong in every case.

The steady stream of pinch-runners is far more annoying, in my opinion.

SoxWin · 09-16-2004, 04:11 PM

..

Vezna31 · 09-16-2004, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eckstein 4 Prez

Look, I understand that sometimes you want to bring in a pinch-runner late in a close game, but could the AI please stop doing this:

Top of the tenth, tie game. Batter is the shortstop, who's rated 7 for range at SS, and is 6/6 for speed/steals (all ratings on 1-10 scale). Batter gets a single, and is promptly pulled for a pinch-runner who is 7/8 for speed/steals.

For the bottom of the inning, the AI has to put in a guy at SS who's rated a 2 in defensive range.

Look, if the AI is replacing Mo Vaughn on the basepaths with Tim Raines, sometimes that's a play you'll want to make. But these guys are so similar in ratings that this play is absurd.

Bottom line - the AI needs to stop having so many YES/NO switches. I'm sure it's just a flowchart-type reasoning where the AI asks, "Is there a pinch-runner available who is faster than the current baserunner?" This kind of simplistic reasoning needs to STOP. Like three versions ago.

Try going to team strategies and pick individuals that should never be pinch hit or run for and change the setting to "never".

disposableheros · 09-16-2004, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vezna31

Try going to team strategies and pick individuals that should never be pinch hit or run for and change the setting to "never".

works fine for those guys you NEVER want to pinch for, but what about those guys who you do want to sometimes?

Vezna31 · 09-16-2004, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disposableheros

works fine for those guys you NEVER want to pinch for, but what about those guys who you do want to sometimes?

I'm assuming your simming and not playing out your own games. It isn't a problem for me since I play out every one of my team's games, but on some occasions when I have simmed, I didn't like how the AI utilized my players. It happened more with the pitchers than hitters though.

SoxWin · 09-16-2004, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vezna31

Try going to team strategies and pick individuals that should never be pinch hit or run for and change the setting to "never".

For all the players on all the computer teams?

Eckstein 4 Prez · 09-16-2004, 06:20 PM

I play out all the games in "god mode." Thus, this will not work. Besides, I'm concerned about what the computer-run teams should do, not with how my team is doing at any given moment.

Thanks for the suggestion, though.

Vezna31 · 09-16-2004, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoxWin

For all the players on all the computer teams?

No, I meant for just the team he manages. i realize it's impossible to do that for every player.

SoxWin · 09-16-2004, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vezna31

No, I meant for just the team he manages. i realize it's impossible to do that for every player.

He's talking about the computer run teams. Do you really think he'd be here complaining about the way he runs his own team?

09-16-2004, 11:50 AM	#1
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	Pinch-runner AI Bug Look, I understand that sometimes you want to bring in a pinch-runner late in a close game, but could the AI please stop doing this: Top of the tenth, tie game. Batter is the shortstop, who's rated 7 for range at SS, and is 6/6 for speed/steals (all ratings on 1-10 scale). Batter gets a single, and is promptly pulled for a pinch-runner who is 7/8 for speed/steals. For the bottom of the inning, the AI has to put in a guy at SS who's rated a 2 in defensive range. Look, if the AI is replacing Mo Vaughn on the basepaths with Tim Raines, sometimes that's a play you'll want to make. But these guys are so similar in ratings that this play is absurd. Bottom line - the AI needs to stop having so many YES/NO switches. I'm sure it's just a flowchart-type reasoning where the AI asks, "Is there a pinch-runner available who is faster than the current baserunner?" This kind of simplistic reasoning needs to STOP. Like three versions ago. __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.

09-16-2004, 01:35 PM	#5
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	The AI really needs to stop this flowchart-style reasoning and start balancing various factors. This is the number one thing I'll be looking for in version 7, and if it's not there, I don't buy. Meanwhile, let's fix this pinch-run bug. __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.

09-16-2004, 04:11 PM	#11
SoxWin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Blissful ignorance Posts: 3,315	.. Attached Images __________________ It's called partying. When you do a lot of it, you're bound to be places where the police show up. I smoke a lot of pot and drink a lot of beer. I also graduated Suma Cum Laude. ****ing sue me. - Luis Rivera

09-16-2004, 06:20 PM	#16
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	I play out all the games in "god mode." Thus, this will not work. Besides, I'm concerned about what the computer-run teams should do, not with how my team is doing at any given moment. Thanks for the suggestion, though. __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.

09-16-2004, 11:59 AM	#2
draven085 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,074	Good luck with that. I'm telling you amigo, just don't look at the game logs and you'll enjoy OOTP a lot more.

09-16-2004, 12:06 PM	#3
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	I'm playing games out in my solo league. That's why this has lately been such an irritation. Previously, I'd only simmed in my solo league. Besides, I've decided to if nothing else make myself visible by complaining each time a bug like this arises during my gameplay. I figure that I play 3-4 games a day, and about 50% of them are infected with some kind of gameplay bug, so that's two posts a day for the team, plus replies like this one. I can give that much. __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.

09-16-2004, 01:26 PM	#4
jmm8356 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Lafayette IN (by way of Tonawanda NY) Posts: 1,673	This is bad in the 10th, but worse in the 7th, IMO. Guys who bat in the 7th should get up to the plate one more time, especially if you're making a comeback (which is probably the case if the AI wants to bring in a pinch runner at all). I once saw the AI put in four pinch-runners in a row, removing either #3-#6 or #4-#7 from the lineup. All those guys ended up batting again in the 8th... hard to make a comeback without the heart of your order. __________________ Jeremy from Tonawanda --- Go Cubbies! --- Unofficial Theta Tester(tm) "Oh, we got both kinds. We got country and western!" From OOTP 6: Designated for Assignment FAQ (Includes both problems and solutions! Ooooo! )

09-16-2004, 01:49 PM	#6
JDOldSchool Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,023	Even worse than your example is when the AI will pinch hit/run for a player and then have to use another player out of position to take his place. This happens way too often. I'm also tired of the AI not knowing how to play outfielders. One guy will qualify at LF and RF, the other at just LF. What happens? The guy who qualifies at LF only will be playing RF and the other guy will be in left field. It makes no sense, but I guarantee at least one team in your league has this set up for their depth chart/lineup.

09-16-2004, 03:02 PM	#8
JDOldSchool Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,023	I think one of the problems with players being out of position is that the game never switches a position for a player. For example: A team pinch hits for its shortstop. The starting second baseman qualifies at short, but nobody else does. If that team has a player that qualifies at 2B on the bench, it would make sense that the AI should put the starting 2B at SS and the bench player would move to 2B. Instead, the game will just take the first available player, often the catcher, and throw him in at shortstop. It's like the AI just evaluates what bench player is best for the substitution and not what player on the entire roster is best for each position.