Age Old Lopsided Trades Question

DaveHorn · 07-22-2004, 06:21 PM

While I hoped it would never happen to our league, of course, it has.

With no formal rules in place what do you view as the best course of action for a trade that has many GMs crying foul?

First, let me be perfectly clear, there is no cheating or cheating accusations here. We've got one owner who many already recognize just hasn't quite grasped the game very well and one owner who had a gem of a trade fall in his lap.

Assume the trade as lopsided as you could imagine (if details are necessary I can post them). What do you view is the best decision for the league as a while the commish can make in this circumstance?

Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Note: The commish nor any league officers are involved in the trade, nor does the trade even involve a division that contains league officers.

rem · 07-22-2004, 06:26 PM

If the guy is a relative unknown who doesn't know the game....veto it.

DaveHorn · 07-22-2004, 06:39 PM

If it matters. He is very well known in the league. Well known at not making the greatest decisions among other claims to fame.

SoxWin · 07-22-2004, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by remangiii

If the guy is a relative unknown who doesn't know the game....veto it.

Agreed.

You could also institute a trade comittee that only oversees trades for newer owners for a season or so just to make sure they don't get taken advantage of. Just my $0.02

SoxWin · 07-22-2004, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveHorn

If it matters. He is very well known in the league. Well known at not making the greatest decisions among other claims to fame.

Dola. You guys have way too many forums to read through

DaveHorn · 07-22-2004, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoxWin

Dola. You guys have way too many forums to read through

Its a very active league with lots of talkers, we needed to organize, but also have more than one temp forums currently going. General Forum is where all the talk goes on. If you wanted to see all the ruckus, its here.

http://www.hitforthecycle.com/hftc/m...ewtopic&t=3450

I've been meaning to ask forever, but since it now appears in my thread, what does Dola mean?

rem · 07-22-2004, 07:20 PM

If your not worried about him abandoning his team then it's different.

Henry · 07-22-2004, 07:21 PM

Put it to a vote with multiple options...

1. Live with it
2. Reverse it
3. Dictate some form of compensation (draft pic, etc.)

Whatever gets the most vote wins. The commish should keep his vote out of it unless needed.

rem · 07-22-2004, 07:24 PM

Looking at the thread on your page, you gotta veto.

SoxWin · 07-22-2004, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveHorn

Its a very active league with lots of talkers, we needed to organize, but also have more than one temp forums currently going. General Forum is where all the talk goes on. If you wanted to see all the ruckus, its here.

http://www.hitforthecycle.com/hftc/m...ewtopic&t=3450

I've been meaning to ask forever, but since it now appears in my thread, what does Dola mean?

I already read it and second my veto vote.

Dola comes from some guy name Dola or Dolamite or some such, can't quite remember. He'd constantly reply to his own posts so it became known as a Dola post, 3 posts in a row would be the rare double dola and so on.

DaveHorn · 07-22-2004, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry

Put it to a vote with multiple options...

1. Live with it
2. Reverse it
3. Dictate some form of compensation (draft pic, etc.)

Whatever gets the most vote wins. The commish should keep his vote out of it unless needed.

LOL, thanks Henry. Throughout the day, depending upon what time you asked me, I would have voted for each of those. So there is no sense in me voting anyway.

Thanks to all for the continued suggestions. Its good to get a view outside the league sometimes.

The Professor · 07-22-2004, 08:07 PM

Just now reading through the thread, but I have to say I agree with Sam Stauder in his comments on Page 3...

As a commissioner I prefer a very hands off approach, but I reserve the right to veto or put a hold on any trade I believe is harmful to the league.

jimedrice · 07-22-2004, 08:14 PM

Man I am getting some RUN tonight on this damn board!!!

First darkhorse, then strzepek and now the Professor.

Rock!

mking55 · 07-22-2004, 08:19 PM

I love these discussions. What to do, what to do.

First choice is to throw both players out of the league. The one who gave up too much because he keeps doing it and hurting your league. The one who performed the ripoff because he must have known he was robbing from the blind. That is shameful.

Never veto a trade. You are not a babysitter but run the league. I don't agree with veto's or trade committee's. It's like 'who died and made you god'?

I was once in a league where we had this situation. We kicked out the one with poor judgement (in a nice way), and told the one who ripped him off that he should back out of the trade. He did. We didn't tell him too, but he knew he ripped the guy off. If he wouldn't have backed off on his own, we probably would have thrown him out. People who rip off others hurt the leagues they are in just as bad as the ones who 'give' their players away.

Good luck.

DaveHorn · 07-22-2004, 08:35 PM

Here is my problem.

At least two other GMs have stated they don't view the trade as far out of whack as the most of the rest of us. Counting them and the two that made the trade, I've got 4 GMs who don't think the trade is terrible.

I've already experienced how drastically different some of us in this league value players differently. I've got at least two GMs so far who don't think the trade is terrible, so I really don't think any GM has done anything wrong. One guy just not so smart and the other taking an opportunity. And the GM on the great end of this trade, clearly does not think its as bad as many of us. I've known and played with him for a long time, so I don't think he was trying to pull a fast one or anything.

The GM who did the fleecing has already more or less stated he would back out if necessary. So that isn't a problem. I'm just unsure if its still the right thing to do. Semi forcing this guy to reverse his trade, is playing god, whether its forced or if he does it out of good will the affect is still the same and one I hoped to never have to do in the league.

Henry · 07-22-2004, 08:38 PM

That's the purpose of a vote. Bottom line is majority rules and it's not your call unless there is a tie. I really think the responsibility for situations like this need to be shared by everyone. It's not a formal trade review board, but a vote can be called if it appears most GMs think it's bad for the league.

satchel · 07-22-2004, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mking55

You are not a babysitter but run the league.

A man might dislike the term ‘babysitter,’ but the Commissioner does babysit the league if he has to. He’s the babysitter, judge, guardian, caretaker, and whatever else you want to call him. If the Commish doesn’t take care of the league, no one will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry

Bottom line is majority rules...

With all due respect to Henry, I disagree. The Commissioner’s time, effort, and resources sustain the league. It’s the Commish’s call. He can involve the owners all he wants, but ultimately he’s the arbiter.

rem · 07-22-2004, 11:06 PM

^^^

I agree. I think votes in general are a bad idea because then when the commish makes a decision league members may feel entitled to a vote.

satchel · 07-22-2004, 11:15 PM

The league is the manifestation of a vision of the Commissioner. All the league’s details are the parts of the vision. Owners might not understand every single decision, but the Commissioner uses the details to build the vision.

jimedrice · 07-23-2004, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satchel

The league is the manifestation of a vision of the Commissioner. All the league’s details are the parts of the vision. Owners might not understand every single decision, but the Commissioner uses the details to build the vision.

Yea that vision thing... Isn't that the 1st Bush's talkign point...

Anyway, I always things leagues are best run as benevolent dictatorships.

07-22-2004, 06:21 PM	#1
DaveHorn All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,146	Age Old Lopsided Trades Question While I hoped it would never happen to our league, of course, it has. With no formal rules in place what do you view as the best course of action for a trade that has many GMs crying foul? First, let me be perfectly clear, there is no cheating or cheating accusations here. We've got one owner who many already recognize just hasn't quite grasped the game very well and one owner who had a gem of a trade fall in his lap. Assume the trade as lopsided as you could imagine (if details are necessary I can post them). What do you view is the best decision for the league as a while the commish can make in this circumstance? Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Note: The commish nor any league officers are involved in the trade, nor does the trade even involve a division that contains league officers. __________________ Dave HFTC Commish

07-22-2004, 06:26 PM	#2
rem Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: College Park, Md. Posts: 5,024	If the guy is a relative unknown who doesn't know the game....veto it. __________________ OTBA: Washington Filibusters CLBR: Minnesota Twins 2005 Winner of LL's Pick the Loser Contest! - 15-0

07-22-2004, 06:39 PM	#3
DaveHorn All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,146	If it matters. He is very well known in the league. Well known at not making the greatest decisions among other claims to fame. __________________ Dave HFTC Commish

07-22-2004, 07:20 PM	#7
rem Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: College Park, Md. Posts: 5,024	If your not worried about him abandoning his team then it's different. __________________ OTBA: Washington Filibusters CLBR: Minnesota Twins 2005 Winner of LL's Pick the Loser Contest! - 15-0

07-22-2004, 07:24 PM	#9
rem Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: College Park, Md. Posts: 5,024	Looking at the thread on your page, you gotta veto. __________________ OTBA: Washington Filibusters CLBR: Minnesota Twins 2005 Winner of LL's Pick the Loser Contest! - 15-0

07-22-2004, 07:21 PM	#8
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	Put it to a vote with multiple options... 1. Live with it 2. Reverse it 3. Dictate some form of compensation (draft pic, etc.) Whatever gets the most vote wins. The commish should keep his vote out of it unless needed.

07-22-2004, 08:07 PM	#12
The Professor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: East of East Posts: 3,020	Just now reading through the thread, but I have to say I agree with Sam Stauder in his comments on Page 3... As a commissioner I prefer a very hands off approach, but I reserve the right to veto or put a hold on any trade I believe is harmful to the league. __________________ History isn't really about the past - settling old scores. It's about defining the present and who we are."

07-22-2004, 08:14 PM	#13
jimedrice Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Western Mass Posts: 222	Man I am getting some RUN tonight on this damn board!!! First darkhorse, then strzepek and now the Professor. Rock! __________________ ex-RANZBA commish • ex-CDL Commish • ex-4CBA Commish • ex-FOBL • ex-BTTF • ex-SLOP • ex-CCB

07-22-2004, 08:19 PM	#14
mking55 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boading, China Posts: 1,249	I love these discussions. What to do, what to do. First choice is to throw both players out of the league. The one who gave up too much because he keeps doing it and hurting your league. The one who performed the ripoff because he must have known he was robbing from the blind. That is shameful. Never veto a trade. You are not a babysitter but run the league. I don't agree with veto's or trade committee's. It's like 'who died and made you god'? I was once in a league where we had this situation. We kicked out the one with poor judgement (in a nice way), and told the one who ripped him off that he should back out of the trade. He did. We didn't tell him too, but he knew he ripped the guy off. If he wouldn't have backed off on his own, we probably would have thrown him out. People who rip off others hurt the leagues they are in just as bad as the ones who 'give' their players away. Good luck.

07-22-2004, 08:35 PM	#15
DaveHorn All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,146	Here is my problem. At least two other GMs have stated they don't view the trade as far out of whack as the most of the rest of us. Counting them and the two that made the trade, I've got 4 GMs who don't think the trade is terrible. I've already experienced how drastically different some of us in this league value players differently. I've got at least two GMs so far who don't think the trade is terrible, so I really don't think any GM has done anything wrong. One guy just not so smart and the other taking an opportunity. And the GM on the great end of this trade, clearly does not think its as bad as many of us. I've known and played with him for a long time, so I don't think he was trying to pull a fast one or anything. The GM who did the fleecing has already more or less stated he would back out if necessary. So that isn't a problem. I'm just unsure if its still the right thing to do. Semi forcing this guy to reverse his trade, is playing god, whether its forced or if he does it out of good will the affect is still the same and one I hoped to never have to do in the league. __________________ Dave HFTC Commish

07-22-2004, 08:38 PM	#16
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	That's the purpose of a vote. Bottom line is majority rules and it's not your call unless there is a tie. I really think the responsibility for situations like this need to be shared by everyone. It's not a formal trade review board, but a vote can be called if it appears most GMs think it's bad for the league.

07-22-2004, 11:06 PM	#18
rem Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: College Park, Md. Posts: 5,024	^^^ I agree. I think votes in general are a bad idea because then when the commish makes a decision league members may feel entitled to a vote. __________________ OTBA: Washington Filibusters CLBR: Minnesota Twins 2005 Winner of LL's Pick the Loser Contest! - 15-0

07-22-2004, 11:15 PM	#19
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith Ark. USA Posts: 2,681	democracy The league is the manifestation of a vision of the Commissioner. All the league’s details are the parts of the vision. Owners might not understand every single decision, but the Commissioner uses the details to build the vision.