Auto depth chart problem

Erithtotl · 04-19-2004, 11:35 PM

In OOTP5 when you asked the AI to generate a depth chart for you it wouldn't place guys at positions other than their primary position unless there was no other choice. But in OOTP6 the AI ignores the positions I assign my players and puts them all over the place. I always use the AI to initialize my depth chart and then I go in and tweak it, but this is driving me crazy, because I have to edit like half the positions to get my guys back to the positions I assigned them to.

Is this an intentional decision or is it a bug that will be fixed?

reds1 · 04-22-2004, 12:52 PM

A good question still needing a resolution.

Bump.

Bishop · 04-22-2004, 04:04 PM

I agree, this should be looked at. The AI wants to play my 3B at SS, and my SS at 3B, and occationally my 2B will get thrown in that mix for a triangle.

I wouldn't mind if the ratings made sense for it to do this, but the 3B is better rated 3rd than SS, and vice versa. Infield arm ratings are the same.

jbmagic · 04-22-2004, 04:15 PM

i notice one of my gamelog had a pitcher play....i didnt have him on my pitcher depth chart listed...is that normal?

zonk84 · 04-22-2004, 04:19 PM

Agreed....

although the best way around this seems to be to build your lineup first, then use the "create depth charts based on this lineup" option.

Still -- if pitching has been (correctly, I feel) adjusted to a more DIPS-sensitve method, then defensive ratings should be given more weight in AI depth chart creation.
For example, I adjusted the Justin Morneau equivalent, adding a very poor catcher rating -- which is perfectly valid since Morneau was drafted as a catcher -- but since he has some experience there, it's perfectly legitimate to allow him to have a sort of "emergency catcher" rating/ability.

However -- the AI goes a bit overboard, thinking it can now stick him in the lineup at C.... even though there's no way he could legitimately play C everyday - the defensive shortcomings would be far too great.

KHauser · 04-22-2004, 07:31 PM

Yeah i am using the CBL rosters with the Tigers.

When i do auto depth it always puts, Dmitri Young or Carlos Guillen at 3B.

I don't mind Guillen but Young has a 1 rating at 3B while Munson is a 6 or so.

Even though Young is stated to be a DH it almost never puts him at DH.

jbmagic · 04-22-2004, 08:20 PM

best way to do this i recommend

1) first do auto lineup and auto depth for Left, Right, Left-dh, right-dh.

2) then Manually change the lineup how you want it

3) then Manually change the depth chart for left, right, left-dh, right dh-....

4) adjust it all as you see fit during the season...

atomheart · 04-22-2004, 08:52 PM

I'm glad others have noticed this. I always do what was mentioned above, but that's getting old.

Hopefully, enough people are bothered by this that it gets fixed.

Mr.Opinion · 04-22-2004, 08:57 PM

Keep in mind the OOTP autos your depth chart for who is the best offensively andAND THEN worries about where they are eligible to play. If you don't like how the game posts, then just set them up yourself...you'll be better results anyway.

eneubaue · 04-22-2004, 08:58 PM

While the above is a good work around for managing your major league line-up, it still doesn't address the issue for minor league lineups.

For one team, I had 3 players in AA - a catcher, a left fielder, and a third baseman. The left fielder was also rated as a rightfielder, while the thirdbaseman was also rated for firstbase. However, the computer AI listed the 3rd baseman as a first baseman in the linup - even though there was no other 3rd baseman. For other teams, for example, the worst rated outfielder was identifed at CF, even thopugh there were 2 other outfielders with better range and fielding ave for CF. Because the AI selected one outfielder as LF and the other as RF, then he was identified as a CF in the lineup (since there were no other outfielders left).

It appears, as others have mentioned, that the computer AI looks first to see if there is a C and if there is, then plugs it in the lineup; and so on, for 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, LF, CF, and RF (note: I think this is the progression, but I could be wrong). So while my thirdbaseman should be listed as a thirdbaseman in the AA line-up, the computer AI identifies him as a 1B due to the progression in assigning positions in the line-up.

While the above is not a major issue, it should be seriously looked at. While the change in the identification in the lineup is not problematic, it could become problamatic if it leads to an actual position change. I can see the logic of changing a players primary fielding position to a secondary one if there are two players competing for the one position at that minor league level. But I don't want the AI to arbitrarily change a players primary position based on how his position is listed in the line-up.

In short, if there is a player rated at two positions, for the minor-league lineups I would like to see the AI slot the player in the lineup at his primary position, not his secondary position (given that there are no other players at the same primary position).

nestajones · 04-23-2004, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Erithtotl
In OOTP5 when you asked the AI to generate a depth chart for you it wouldn't place guys at positions other than their primary position unless there was no other choice. But in OOTP6 the AI ignores the positions I assign my players and puts them all over the place. I always use the AI to initialize my depth chart and then I go in and tweak it, but this is driving me crazy, because I have to edit like half the positions to get my guys back to the positions I assigned them to.

Is this an intentional decision or is it a bug that will be fixed?

I assumed it was an intentional improvement.

In a historical league where I basically let the AI run all the teams and I sim out season by season, I would notice the idiot AI GM would sign a guy for a position where it had a good alternative, and then not move either one to a new position. So I would have to manually change the primary position for one of the players to another position at which he was eligible.

I just simmed my first season in OOTP6, and noticed that the AI was now moving guys wherever they can fit, regardless their primary position. I thought this was a good improvement. However, I can see how it could be problematic as well for some people. I haven't had enough experience yet to become bothered by it.

GoldenGlove · 04-23-2004, 01:53 AM

1st Idea:
This would probably slow the game down, but maybe if it could create a lineup based on primary positions. Then go through each bench player for that lineup and match him up with the positions that he is suited for. If he is better than a player at one of his secondary positions, he is inserted. This of course is flawed as well, but it may be better than it is currently.

2nd Idea:
Create a formula for the offensive ratings. Then use this formula to place the highest players into their best fielding position. As soon as a player is found to have no fielding position open in the defensive alignment, go through his positions and find the higher rated player that can be moved to an open position. If nobody can move, then the next player is looked at until the lineup is filled.

eneubaue · 04-23-2004, 09:14 AM

Addendum for my earlier post:

In version 5, the computer AI correctly identified a player's primary position in the batting order in the minor leagues. So if a players was rated at two positions, he was identifed as playing his primary position in the minor league lineup.

Here's hoping this will be corrected....

Applecorey · 04-24-2004, 10:29 PM

bump

Da Cubs · 04-24-2004, 10:42 PM

I have noticed especially in the minors that players are playing at weaker postions than they should. My question is, will this make the players peform at a better rating than they are rated for? If not, than this needs to be looked at.

rangers85 · 05-17-2004, 02:09 AM

I've noticed this too. It insists on playing my 3B at SS (Where he has no defensive rating whatsoever) and my SS at 3B (Where he does have a defensive rating).

04-19-2004, 11:35 PM	#1
Erithtotl Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 330	Auto depth chart problem In OOTP5 when you asked the AI to generate a depth chart for you it wouldn't place guys at positions other than their primary position unless there was no other choice. But in OOTP6 the AI ignores the positions I assign my players and puts them all over the place. I always use the AI to initialize my depth chart and then I go in and tweak it, but this is driving me crazy, because I have to edit like half the positions to get my guys back to the positions I assigned them to. Is this an intentional decision or is it a bug that will be fixed?

04-22-2004, 12:52 PM	#2
reds1 Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 3,929	A good question still needing a resolution. Bump. __________________ United Leagues of Braeland

04-22-2004, 08:57 PM	#9
Mr.Opinion All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2003 Location: SkiFree Lodge Posts: 883	Keep in mind the OOTP autos your depth chart for who is the best offensively andAND THEN worries about where they are eligible to play. If you don't like how the game posts, then just set them up yourself...you'll be better results anyway. __________________

04-22-2004, 08:58 PM	#10
eneubaue Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 156	While the above is a good work around for managing your major league line-up, it still doesn't address the issue for minor league lineups. For one team, I had 3 players in AA - a catcher, a left fielder, and a third baseman. The left fielder was also rated as a rightfielder, while the thirdbaseman was also rated for firstbase. However, the computer AI listed the 3rd baseman as a first baseman in the linup - even though there was no other 3rd baseman. For other teams, for example, the worst rated outfielder was identifed at CF, even thopugh there were 2 other outfielders with better range and fielding ave for CF. Because the AI selected one outfielder as LF and the other as RF, then he was identified as a CF in the lineup (since there were no other outfielders left). It appears, as others have mentioned, that the computer AI looks first to see if there is a C and if there is, then plugs it in the lineup; and so on, for 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, LF, CF, and RF (note: I think this is the progression, but I could be wrong). So while my thirdbaseman should be listed as a thirdbaseman in the AA line-up, the computer AI identifies him as a 1B due to the progression in assigning positions in the line-up. While the above is not a major issue, it should be seriously looked at. While the change in the identification in the lineup is not problematic, it could become problamatic if it leads to an actual position change. I can see the logic of changing a players primary fielding position to a secondary one if there are two players competing for the one position at that minor league level. But I don't want the AI to arbitrarily change a players primary position based on how his position is listed in the line-up. In short, if there is a player rated at two positions, for the minor-league lineups I would like to see the AI slot the player in the lineup at his primary position, not his secondary position (given that there are no other players at the same primary position). Last edited by eneubaue; 04-22-2004 at 09:02 PM.

04-23-2004, 01:53 AM	#12
GoldenGlove Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 339	1st Idea: This would probably slow the game down, but maybe if it could create a lineup based on primary positions. Then go through each bench player for that lineup and match him up with the positions that he is suited for. If he is better than a player at one of his secondary positions, he is inserted. This of course is flawed as well, but it may be better than it is currently. 2nd Idea: Create a formula for the offensive ratings. Then use this formula to place the highest players into their best fielding position. As soon as a player is found to have no fielding position open in the defensive alignment, go through his positions and find the higher rated player that can be moved to an open position. If nobody can move, then the next player is looked at until the lineup is filled. __________________ ISBL - New York Yankees B.I.G. - Oakland Athletics TheMLB - Cleveland Indians

04-22-2004, 04:04 PM	#3
Bishop All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Tejas Posts: 709	I agree, this should be looked at. The AI wants to play my 3B at SS, and my SS at 3B, and occationally my 2B will get thrown in that mix for a triangle. I wouldn't mind if the ratings made sense for it to do this, but the 3B is better rated 3rd than SS, and vice versa. Infield arm ratings are the same.

04-22-2004, 04:15 PM	#4
jbmagic Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,417	i notice one of my gamelog had a pitcher play....i didnt have him on my pitcher depth chart listed...is that normal?

04-22-2004, 04:19 PM	#5
zonk84 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 263	Agreed.... although the best way around this seems to be to build your lineup first, then use the "create depth charts based on this lineup" option. Still -- if pitching has been (correctly, I feel) adjusted to a more DIPS-sensitve method, then defensive ratings should be given more weight in AI depth chart creation. For example, I adjusted the Justin Morneau equivalent, adding a very poor catcher rating -- which is perfectly valid since Morneau was drafted as a catcher -- but since he has some experience there, it's perfectly legitimate to allow him to have a sort of "emergency catcher" rating/ability. However -- the AI goes a bit overboard, thinking it can now stick him in the lineup at C.... even though there's no way he could legitimately play C everyday - the defensive shortcomings would be far too great.

04-22-2004, 07:31 PM	#6
KHauser Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 8	Yeah i am using the CBL rosters with the Tigers. When i do auto depth it always puts, Dmitri Young or Carlos Guillen at 3B. I don't mind Guillen but Young has a 1 rating at 3B while Munson is a 6 or so. Even though Young is stated to be a DH it almost never puts him at DH.

04-22-2004, 08:20 PM	#7
jbmagic Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,417	best way to do this i recommend 1) first do auto lineup and auto depth for Left, Right, Left-dh, right-dh. 2) then Manually change the lineup how you want it 3) then Manually change the depth chart for left, right, left-dh, right dh-.... 4) adjust it all as you see fit during the season...

04-22-2004, 08:52 PM	#8
atomheart Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 454	I'm glad others have noticed this. I always do what was mentioned above, but that's getting old. Hopefully, enough people are bothered by this that it gets fixed.

04-23-2004, 09:14 AM	#13
eneubaue Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 156	Addendum for my earlier post: In version 5, the computer AI correctly identified a player's primary position in the batting order in the minor leagues. So if a players was rated at two positions, he was identifed as playing his primary position in the minor league lineup. Here's hoping this will be corrected....

04-24-2004, 10:29 PM	#14
Applecorey Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 307	bump __________________ www.boardgamegeek.com

04-24-2004, 10:42 PM	#15
Da Cubs Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Midwest Posts: 31	I have noticed especially in the minors that players are playing at weaker postions than they should. My question is, will this make the players peform at a better rating than they are rated for? If not, than this needs to be looked at.

05-17-2004, 02:09 AM	#16
rangers85 All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Fort Worth, TX...home of the mighty TCU Horned Frogs Posts: 909	I've noticed this too. It insists on playing my 3B at SS (Where he has no defensive rating whatsoever) and my SS at 3B (Where he does have a defensive rating).