Ending Careers

kidk34 · 12-23-2001, 05:05 AM

The issue of very good (sometimes Hall of Fame) caliber players playing in A ball at 42 yrs old needs to be addressed. We all know that would not happen.

hellfrozeover · 12-23-2001, 12:42 PM

Yes I agree. Although I have heard that it is a way of encouraging a player who is well past his prime to retire. I don't know whether or not this works as I have not had the opportunity to try it.

JWay · 12-24-2001, 07:35 PM

Well with my old players I still try to play them as much as possible and keeping a winning team. I got Ken Griffey in 2011 he has 3000/800 already but won't retire. I have him at about 80% in the vs RHP and 20 % vs LHP. Lots of people came to see Cal Ripken leave. Even though he wasn't half as good as he was 5-10 years back anyway maybe a little incentive to have a HOF player that is likely to retire as in attendence.

kidk34 · 12-25-2001, 08:09 AM

If an owner wants to keep an "over the hill" star on the team, that is fine. The problem I keep seeing is where computer run teams bury 40+ yr old future HOF in A ball. Would not happen. Greg Maddux would not go to A ball at 42. No one can make me believe that.

Killebrew · 12-25-2001, 08:41 AM

This might be a pretty good idea - have any player over age 38 (or whatever) retire if the get sent down to A or AA levels. There is a problem though in that it allows teams to "force" a players retirement whenever they want, and this completely takes the risk out of signing or giving contract extensions to older players.

Scott Vibert · 12-25-2001, 09:49 AM

One thing that might help with this....

In the majors a player with 5 years of service time (time on MLB roster or on the DL) can refuse assignment to the minors and opt to become a free agent... perhaps if this was implemented... all players with at least 10 years of experience would automatically refuse the assignment and become a free agent (with the team taking the appropriate hit in the financial aspect as the contract was still guarenteed and was breached by the team when they attempted to send him down). Then as the player would likely still be old and still stink he'd sit as a free agent for the remainder of the year and finally retire, without the indignity of playing his final few years in A ball.

Any thoughts on this?

Clipper · 12-25-2001, 11:47 AM

Sounds like a good idea. It would make the game tougher, I like to keep an aging, but still serviceable starting pitcher in AAA in case someone gets hurt. But, I don't mind more of a challenge if it makes the game more realistic.

Merry Christmas (from work)

MJohnson · 12-25-2001, 06:25 PM

years ago (pre WWII), older players went to the minors when their MLB careers were over as an alternate source of income. Players back then made little money and spent most of it whoring and drinking, not saving. But, players make more than enough now and don't need the minors anymore

Killebrew · 12-25-2001, 06:38 PM

[quote]Originally posted by ScottVib:
<strong>One thing that might help with this....

In the majors a player with 5 years of service time (time on MLB roster or on the DL) can refuse assignment to the minors and opt to become a free agent... perhaps if this was implemented... all players with at least 10 years of experience would automatically refuse the assignment and become a free agent (with the team taking the appropriate hit in the financial aspect as the contract was still guarenteed and was breached by the team when they attempted to send him down). Then as the player would likely still be old and still stink he'd sit as a free agent for the remainder of the year and finally retire, without the indignity of playing his final few years in A ball.

Any thoughts on this?</strong><hr></blockquote>

This sounds like a perfect solution, I'd love to see this. It would also make the game much more challenging in solo mode.

sporr · 12-26-2001, 12:12 AM

This is probably a little too deep, but I was just thinking that it would be interesting to have a rating for Desire to Play. This could affect a player's willingness to keep playing even if he has to go to the minors. It could also affect a player's willingness to be traded to a team where he won't be a starter (assuming that the game allowed the veteran players to veto trades like they can in real life to some extent). As I said, this is probably a few steps down the road, but it could affect whether a player will retire or keep plugging away in the minors hoping for a chance to make it back again.

Scott Vibert · 12-26-2001, 07:10 AM

This could be good, however implementing it could be tricky... this is something that might be able to be seen perhaps in my solution by not making it an absolute that the player would return, but have a very small (less than 2 percent) chance of the player agreeing to the demotion then we could explain that as a player who isn't ready to give up, but realizes that he doesn't have much hope of being signed as a free agent, or perhaps have those players who are free agents because of what I described have a chance of not retiring and just waiting to be signed (perhaps could explain this as the player is trying to stay in shape in an independant league waiting to sign, maybe a player could potentially develop (at a slower rate) or regress while a free agent to indicate that the player may be working out on their own, playing in an Independant league, or sitting on their rear with beer and nachos (those players would regress...).

c-man · 12-26-2001, 08:18 AM

I like ScottVib's idea a lot. Right now, when i have a veteran pitcher floundering (i have many) I can too easily demote them while testing replacements, when in reality they would go to the bullpen and continue taking up roster space.

It's kind of a detail, but it might be good also though, to be able to allow players coming off injuries to be able to have rehab assignments in the minors. Maybe after 2-5 starts in the minors after coming off an injury they demand promotion or free agency?? Maybe ratings take a hit after an injury and they have some games in the minors where you can watch their performance and ratings to see if they are coming back to pre injury levels.

This is not as important as having an overall refuse minors statement for veteran players, but perhaps later this could be added?

rwmorey · 12-26-2001, 11:56 AM

Here a cool primer about player transaction rules to follow up to ScottVibs post.

<a href="http://espn.go.com/mlb/s/1999/0908/46397.html" target="_blank">http://espn.go.com/mlb/s/1999/0908/46397.html</a>

c-man · 12-26-2001, 12:07 PM

That is a great primer-- I would always favor moving the game towards the real system in almost every aspect of the game...

Bobbuttons · 12-26-2001, 12:48 PM

I think it would be helpful in this case to give players the ability to retire during the season, as opposed to following the season. You could implement something where a player over 37 or so would automatically retire if sent to A ball.

rwmorey · 12-26-2001, 02:02 PM

What would be really cool would be if during the season a player announced his intention to retire at the end of the season. That could maybe effect attendence and would also let a GM know that that guys salary would be gone next year. The player could be flagged or something so you would know when you brought up his screen that he was going to retire.

I don't like the idea of a guy "automatically" retiring if sent to A ball.. You shouldn't have the ability to send a guy down if he's got enough service time.

Scott Vibert · 12-27-2001, 07:25 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Bobbuttons:
<strong>I think it would be helpful in this case to give players the ability to retire during the season, as opposed to following the season. You could implement something where a player over 37 or so would automatically retire if sent to A ball.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't like this because it becomes way too easy to exploit. Have an overpaid, old fart taking up space and money... just send him down, he'll retire and you'll get the money back... that isn't a good thing, nor is it realistic... while retiring during the season could be a good thing, it doesn't happen all that often, and for simplicity's sake it might be worth simply saving retirement during the season to only those players who suffer career ending injuries. (Which would free any burden having to deal with the players injury)

12-23-2001, 05:05 AM	#1
kidk34 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Springfield, Illinois Posts: 88	Ending Careers The issue of very good (sometimes Hall of Fame) caliber players playing in A ball at 42 yrs old needs to be addressed. We all know that would not happen.

12-23-2001, 12:42 PM	#2
hellfrozeover All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,130	Yes I agree. Although I have heard that it is a way of encouraging a player who is well past his prime to retire. I don't know whether or not this works as I have not had the opportunity to try it. __________________ FBA Chicago Syndicate Former Owner: WBL Minnesota Twins 2004 - 2007 AL Central Division Champs OOL Chicago Whales 2006, 2009 UL East Champs; 2006, 2009 United League Champs IBA Lehigh Valley Diamonds 2006 Governor's Cup Champions VSLB New York Yankees 2001, 2002 AL East Division Champs ILBL Commissioner/Chicago Cubs 2002 NL Central Division Champs; 2002 National League Champs ASBL New York Yankees 2006 AL East Division Champs

12-25-2001, 08:41 AM	#5
Killebrew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 3,326	This might be a pretty good idea - have any player over age 38 (or whatever) retire if the get sent down to A or AA levels. There is a problem though in that it allows teams to "force" a players retirement whenever they want, and this completely takes the risk out of signing or giving contract extensions to older players. __________________ FOBL Capital City Metropolitans CDL Minnesota Twins

12-25-2001, 06:38 PM	#9
Killebrew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 3,326	[quote]Originally posted by ScottVib: <strong>One thing that might help with this.... In the majors a player with 5 years of service time (time on MLB roster or on the DL) can refuse assignment to the minors and opt to become a free agent... perhaps if this was implemented... all players with at least 10 years of experience would automatically refuse the assignment and become a free agent (with the team taking the appropriate hit in the financial aspect as the contract was still guarenteed and was breached by the team when they attempted to send him down). Then as the player would likely still be old and still stink he'd sit as a free agent for the remainder of the year and finally retire, without the indignity of playing his final few years in A ball. Any thoughts on this?</strong><hr></blockquote> This sounds like a perfect solution, I'd love to see this. It would also make the game much more challenging in solo mode. __________________ FOBL Capital City Metropolitans CDL Minnesota Twins

12-26-2001, 12:48 PM	#15
Bobbuttons Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Picturesque Mentor-on-the-Lake, Ohio Posts: 3,708	I think it would be helpful in this case to give players the ability to retire during the season, as opposed to following the season. You could implement something where a player over 37 or so would automatically retire if sent to A ball. __________________ Frankenstein never scared me. Marsupials do....cause they're fast! Gibson swings, and a fly ball to deep right field! This is gonna be a home run! Unbelievable! A home run for Gibson! And the Dodgers have won the game, 5 to 4; I don't believe what I just saw! I don't believe what I just saw!

12-24-2001, 07:35 PM	#3
JWay Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Posts: 5,031	Well with my old players I still try to play them as much as possible and keeping a winning team. I got Ken Griffey in 2011 he has 3000/800 already but won't retire. I have him at about 80% in the vs RHP and 20 % vs LHP. Lots of people came to see Cal Ripken leave. Even though he wasn't half as good as he was 5-10 years back anyway maybe a little incentive to have a HOF player that is likely to retire as in attendence.

12-25-2001, 08:09 AM	#4
kidk34 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Springfield, Illinois Posts: 88	If an owner wants to keep an "over the hill" star on the team, that is fine. The problem I keep seeing is where computer run teams bury 40+ yr old future HOF in A ball. Would not happen. Greg Maddux would not go to A ball at 42. No one can make me believe that.

12-25-2001, 09:49 AM	#6
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,248	One thing that might help with this.... In the majors a player with 5 years of service time (time on MLB roster or on the DL) can refuse assignment to the minors and opt to become a free agent... perhaps if this was implemented... all players with at least 10 years of experience would automatically refuse the assignment and become a free agent (with the team taking the appropriate hit in the financial aspect as the contract was still guarenteed and was breached by the team when they attempted to send him down). Then as the player would likely still be old and still stink he'd sit as a free agent for the remainder of the year and finally retire, without the indignity of playing his final few years in A ball. Any thoughts on this?

12-25-2001, 11:47 AM	#7
Clipper Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 83	Sounds like a good idea. It would make the game tougher, I like to keep an aging, but still serviceable starting pitcher in AAA in case someone gets hurt. But, I don't mind more of a challenge if it makes the game more realistic. Merry Christmas (from work)

12-25-2001, 06:25 PM	#8
MJohnson Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: under an overpass Posts: 459	years ago (pre WWII), older players went to the minors when their MLB careers were over as an alternate source of income. Players back then made little money and spent most of it whoring and drinking, not saving. But, players make more than enough now and don't need the minors anymore

12-26-2001, 12:12 AM	#10
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	This is probably a little too deep, but I was just thinking that it would be interesting to have a rating for Desire to Play. This could affect a player's willingness to keep playing even if he has to go to the minors. It could also affect a player's willingness to be traded to a team where he won't be a starter (assuming that the game allowed the veteran players to veto trades like they can in real life to some extent). As I said, this is probably a few steps down the road, but it could affect whether a player will retire or keep plugging away in the minors hoping for a chance to make it back again.

12-26-2001, 07:10 AM	#11
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,248	This could be good, however implementing it could be tricky... this is something that might be able to be seen perhaps in my solution by not making it an absolute that the player would return, but have a very small (less than 2 percent) chance of the player agreeing to the demotion then we could explain that as a player who isn't ready to give up, but realizes that he doesn't have much hope of being signed as a free agent, or perhaps have those players who are free agents because of what I described have a chance of not retiring and just waiting to be signed (perhaps could explain this as the player is trying to stay in shape in an independant league waiting to sign, maybe a player could potentially develop (at a slower rate) or regress while a free agent to indicate that the player may be working out on their own, playing in an Independant league, or sitting on their rear with beer and nachos (those players would regress...).

12-26-2001, 08:18 AM	#12
c-man Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 130	I like ScottVib's idea a lot. Right now, when i have a veteran pitcher floundering (i have many) I can too easily demote them while testing replacements, when in reality they would go to the bullpen and continue taking up roster space. It's kind of a detail, but it might be good also though, to be able to allow players coming off injuries to be able to have rehab assignments in the minors. Maybe after 2-5 starts in the minors after coming off an injury they demand promotion or free agency?? Maybe ratings take a hit after an injury and they have some games in the minors where you can watch their performance and ratings to see if they are coming back to pre injury levels. This is not as important as having an overall refuse minors statement for veteran players, but perhaps later this could be added?

12-26-2001, 11:56 AM	#13
rwmorey Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 177	Here a cool primer about player transaction rules to follow up to ScottVibs post. <a href="http://espn.go.com/mlb/s/1999/0908/46397.html" target="_blank">http://espn.go.com/mlb/s/1999/0908/46397.html</a>

12-26-2001, 12:07 PM	#14
c-man Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 130	That is a great primer-- I would always favor moving the game towards the real system in almost every aspect of the game...

12-26-2001, 02:02 PM	#16
rwmorey Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 177	What would be really cool would be if during the season a player announced his intention to retire at the end of the season. That could maybe effect attendence and would also let a GM know that that guys salary would be gone next year. The player could be flagged or something so you would know when you brought up his screen that he was going to retire. I don't like the idea of a guy "automatically" retiring if sent to A ball.. You shouldn't have the ability to send a guy down if he's got enough service time.

12-27-2001, 07:25 AM	#17
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,248	[quote]Originally posted by Bobbuttons: <strong>I think it would be helpful in this case to give players the ability to retire during the season, as opposed to following the season. You could implement something where a player over 37 or so would automatically retire if sent to A ball.</strong><hr></blockquote> I don't like this because it becomes way too easy to exploit. Have an overpaid, old fart taking up space and money... just send him down, he'll retire and you'll get the money back... that isn't a good thing, nor is it realistic... while retiring during the season could be a good thing, it doesn't happen all that often, and for simplicity's sake it might be worth simply saving retirement during the season to only those players who suffer career ending injuries. (Which would free any burden having to deal with the players injury)