Why not make the beta available for folks who preorder?

bplotkin · 03-09-2004, 06:43 PM

This isn't an issue of giving people something for nothing--for people who preorder already, I can't see why not to let them download the latest beta. Give them something to whet their curiosity with while we're waiting for the real thing.

PittPanther · 03-09-2004, 06:45 PM

Excellent idea. Worked for quite a few companies.

Steve Kuffrey · 03-09-2004, 06:52 PM

This has been discussed before and not the way that we choose to conduct this process, other companies do and that is fine and their choice.

bplotkin · 03-09-2004, 06:56 PM

Steve, actually this hasn't been discussed before.

If I remember correctly, what I suggested last year was an open beta. That is NOT what I am suggesting here--I do NOT want just anyone to be able to download the beta.

All I suggested was let the people who have ALREADY PAID for the game download the latest beta. There is no question of lost income from folks who would just download a beta and not play the regular version--because they'd have to already have paid for the game by preordering!

Steve Kuffrey · 03-09-2004, 07:01 PM

I was referring to the fact that as a company "we" have discussed it.

PittPanther · 03-09-2004, 07:22 PM

Fair enough. . .you da monsta.

Markus Heinsohn · 03-09-2004, 07:51 PM

A beta is a beta... an unfinished product. I'd never give a product, that is unfinished in my opinion, to a customer!

bplotkin · 03-09-2004, 07:52 PM

Yes, but Markus, the point is you'd be giving them something, and you wouldn't be losing a thing. They'd KNOW it was an unfinished product, and that it was being given to them as a perk for preordering. You have their preorder money already, so you're not losing a thing.

ms2002 · 03-09-2004, 07:59 PM

And we could give insights to bugs and such....

Markus Heinsohn · 03-09-2004, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bplotkin
Yes, but Markus, the point is you'd be giving them something, and you wouldn't be losing a thing. They'd KNOW it was an unfinished product, and that it was being given to them as a perk for preordering. You have their preorder money already, so you're not losing a thing.

I think it's just a sort of philosophy... I'd hate giving unfinished products to paying customers. The advantage that people get from preordering is not playing an unfinished product, but rather getting a 25% price drop. And we decided to do it this way this year, because we have never been able to create an update option with the publishing systems we have used in the past and present.

Mr.Opinion · 03-09-2004, 08:04 PM

or it would just turn into mass mayhem of suggestion after suggestion, boggling markus and steve's minds, just like it does now with everyones complaints and suggestions...

liquid · 03-09-2004, 08:38 PM

I remember a couple years ago when one of these text sims (basketball?) released the beta and people went nuts over it being buggy. I can see why Markus wouldn't want to release an unfinished product.

I can imagine a reviewer getting ahold of it, reviewing it and tearing it apart. And that's never good for buisness.

Henry · 03-09-2004, 10:36 PM

Although it might appear to be a good idea for the masses, it's a nightmare-in-waiting for the company and support staff. It's impossible to clearly separate those running different versions now and the support element that creates. Add in a beta variable and whole leagues could begin to fall apart as a result of unfinished code - and leave the company helpless to help.

Henry

Skipaway · 03-09-2004, 11:07 PM

I would imagine most people wouldn't be into the "testing" part anyway. From the board discussions, apparently very few cared about things like testing strange settings, simulating the league for 50 years, studying the data the game generated, editing the parameters to boundary conditions, or stuff like that.

People just want to play the game, and that is not a efficient way for beta testing.

TopShelf · 03-09-2004, 11:35 PM

Beta is for the company, and they have the choice to choose who runs the beta, its not something that is given out for paying something, its given out to people on a one on one basis.

For the amount we all bitch at bugs, a beta would not last long, and would throw people off, then help them understand new things, if bugs take place. People have a hard time at not remembering that if something is BETA, it may crash/bugged, and they then assume the game will be horrible or be thrown off by it

thats just my view on how it wouldnt work, to the ones who think they are owed a beta version cause they paid a month early lol is kinda unfair to say.

You got 9 bucks off, I think thats enough for scanning your credit card 30 or so days earlier

JPWagner · 03-09-2004, 11:55 PM

Some people are never satisfied...give them a discount and they think of ways for wanting more.....

Steely Glint · 03-10-2004, 12:04 AM

Relax, the first release of any new version is still a beta.

Rizon · 03-10-2004, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Markus Heinsohn
A beta is a beta... an unfinished product. I'd never give a product, that is unfinished in my opinion, to a customer!

It's similar to an artist not allowing anyone to see his unfinished work. I'd feel the same way.

Business-wise, I'd also feel the same way.

StorminZ · 03-10-2004, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Opinion
or it would just turn into mass mayhem of suggestion after suggestion, boggling markus and steve's minds, just like it does now with everyones complaints and suggestions...

I agree ... I think pre-order beta would result in near endless suggestions setting up unreasonable expectations leading to disappointment for some when things don't get in and that then leads to complaining on these boards about 'why wasn't this dealt with' and 'geez, I told them to but they didn't listen', blah, blah, blah.

As my experience with OOTP goes, Markus & Team have done a superb job with their beta testers and I see no need to change.

03-09-2004, 06:43 PM	#1
bplotkin Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 220 Infractions: 0/3 (4)	Why not make the beta available for folks who preorder? This isn't an issue of giving people something for nothing--for people who preorder already, I can't see why not to let them download the latest beta. Give them something to whet their curiosity with while we're waiting for the real thing.

03-09-2004, 06:45 PM	#2
PittPanther All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 1,235	Excellent idea. Worked for quite a few companies. __________________ Commitment Teamwork Pride Hail to Pitt!

03-09-2004, 06:52 PM	#3
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,023	This has been discussed before and not the way that we choose to conduct this process, other companies do and that is fine and their choice. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-09-2004, 07:01 PM	#5
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,023	I was referring to the fact that as a company "we" have discussed it. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-09-2004, 07:22 PM	#6
PittPanther All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 1,235	Fair enough. . .you da monsta. __________________ Commitment Teamwork Pride Hail to Pitt!

03-09-2004, 06:56 PM	#4
bplotkin Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 220 Infractions: 0/3 (4)	Steve, actually this hasn't been discussed before. If I remember correctly, what I suggested last year was an open beta. That is NOT what I am suggesting here--I do NOT want just anyone to be able to download the beta. All I suggested was let the people who have ALREADY PAID for the game download the latest beta. There is no question of lost income from folks who would just download a beta and not play the regular version--because they'd have to already have paid for the game by preordering!

03-09-2004, 07:51 PM	#7
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,805	A beta is a beta... an unfinished product. I'd never give a product, that is unfinished in my opinion, to a customer! __________________ Buy Out of the Park Baseball 25 now! Download OOTP Go 25 for iOS Download OOTP Go 25 for Android

03-09-2004, 07:52 PM	#8
bplotkin Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 220 Infractions: 0/3 (4)	Yes, but Markus, the point is you'd be giving them something, and you wouldn't be losing a thing. They'd KNOW it was an unfinished product, and that it was being given to them as a perk for preordering. You have their preorder money already, so you're not losing a thing.

03-09-2004, 07:59 PM	#9
ms2002 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,488	And we could give insights to bugs and such....

03-09-2004, 08:04 PM	#11
Mr.Opinion All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2003 Location: SkiFree Lodge Posts: 883	or it would just turn into mass mayhem of suggestion after suggestion, boggling markus and steve's minds, just like it does now with everyones complaints and suggestions... __________________

03-09-2004, 08:38 PM	#12
liquid Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 11	I remember a couple years ago when one of these text sims (basketball?) released the beta and people went nuts over it being buggy. I can see why Markus wouldn't want to release an unfinished product. I can imagine a reviewer getting ahold of it, reviewing it and tearing it apart. And that's never good for buisness. __________________ I have been around this message board for years. I have had several diferent screen names, but I always forget them. I will probably change again because the name Liquid is ******ed.

03-09-2004, 10:36 PM	#13
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	Although it might appear to be a good idea for the masses, it's a nightmare-in-waiting for the company and support staff. It's impossible to clearly separate those running different versions now and the support element that creates. Add in a beta variable and whole leagues could begin to fall apart as a result of unfinished code - and leave the company helpless to help. Henry

03-09-2004, 11:07 PM	#14
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	I would imagine most people wouldn't be into the "testing" part anyway. From the board discussions, apparently very few cared about things like testing strange settings, simulating the league for 50 years, studying the data the game generated, editing the parameters to boundary conditions, or stuff like that. People just want to play the game, and that is not a efficient way for beta testing. __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

03-09-2004, 11:35 PM	#15
TopShelf Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: B.C Canada Posts: 110	Beta is for the company, and they have the choice to choose who runs the beta, its not something that is given out for paying something, its given out to people on a one on one basis. For the amount we all bitch at bugs, a beta would not last long, and would throw people off, then help them understand new things, if bugs take place. People have a hard time at not remembering that if something is BETA, it may crash/bugged, and they then assume the game will be horrible or be thrown off by it thats just my view on how it wouldnt work, to the ones who think they are owed a beta version cause they paid a month early lol is kinda unfair to say. You got 9 bucks off, I think thats enough for scanning your credit card 30 or so days earlier __________________ http://www.aaronsmart.com/]-(Founder)- "Don’t water the pavement. Position your sprinkler so water lands on the lawn not on pavement"

03-09-2004, 11:55 PM	#16
JPWagner Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 200	Some people are never satisfied...give them a discount and they think of ways for wanting more..... __________________ Formerly J P Falcon....changing screen names is what happens when you do not write down your password, forget it, and then change your email address!

03-10-2004, 12:04 AM	#17
Steely Glint Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 430	Relax, the first release of any new version is still a beta. __________________ "His eyes had the steely glint of a hired gun."