Cheating Threads????

Jestre · 01-20-2004, 07:22 AM

Can someone please explain to me why any thread 'outting' a cheater is immediately shut down. I find them informative and entertaining and gauging by the number of posts therein so do many others. Virtually all cheating threads are titled such that they are easily recognizable by the title and therefore easily avoidable by those that don't wish to read them.... Is it a personal thing by the board vice squad or just another example of PC run amok????

clarnzz · 01-20-2004, 07:50 AM

Perhaps if they are going to be closed they should also be "sticky"'ed at the top of the forum so everyone gets a chance to be exposed to the information. They kinda fall off the face of the earth fast and if you didn't happen to log in during the 3 hours the thread is open it's almost like they never even cheated.

Karen Lutz · 01-20-2004, 07:51 AM

Let's keep this simple:

OOTP Online Leagues:
This is the place to post league openings and a desire to be a part of a league.

Threads about cheating are not deleted, they are closed after the point has been made. If you need to have 'fun' with your posts, it is encouraged, but keep it on-topic, if it is off-topic, there is a section for that.

I will end this with 1 simple question.
If we were to keep the cheating threads open and allow them to stay for days and days at the top of the online leagues area, how many new people do you think will have much faith in the community?

This is the simple point and the reason why.

Karen Lutz · 01-20-2004, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by clarnzz
Perhaps if they are going to be closed they should also be "sticky"'ed at the top of the forum so everyone gets a chance to be exposed to the information. They kinda fall off the face of the earth fast and if you didn't happen to log in during the 3 hours the thread is open it's almost like they never even cheated.

Normally they would get a few pages of "get your point in" but the last one that was closed quickly was done because the league was deleted and shut down, there was no use in trying to keep people away from it, and there was nothing more anyone could say. Nice job on the sticky idea, lol

I wonder how many people will think that is a good idea.

Treches · 01-20-2004, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Karen Lutz
If we were to keep the cheating threads open and allow them to stay for days and days at the top of the online leagues area, how many new people do you think will have much faith in the community?

Probably the same amount as when the threads weren't closed.

obpbsl · 01-20-2004, 08:10 AM

Well...cheating threads are a double edge sword in my opinion.

Recently I had to let go of a very good owner because it was brought to my attention he was cheating in another league. In 1 way it's good information to know of this kind of activity, however if I didn't know, I would still think he was a very good owner in my league.

I would like to know what other commishes would have done in this situtation?

My reasoning behind it was basically this:

1. Caught cheating in another league, who's to say he wouldn't do it again.

2. Tried to 'take advantage' of the game itself (ie. play position players at DH, or starters at MR in order to get the financial break). I consider this a form of cheating as you are aware of the effects.

It really pained me to have to let this owner go, but I felt I did what was best for the league as a whole.

So what would other commishes have done?

clarnzz · 01-20-2004, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Karen Lutz
Nice job on the sticky idea, lol I wonder how many people will think that is a good idea.

Maybe it wasn't one of my best ideas, but I liked it. I bet I'm not even the only one.

Karen Lutz · 01-20-2004, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Treches
Probably the same amount as when the threads weren't closed.

You may be right, but I don't think so, and we won't know until we try this the new way for a while and see. I think the level of banter in such threads does not help the new people feel like they are in a good place.

This area of the boards is one that is probably most frequented by new users and should be kept peaceful. The threads that are posted have done nothing to stop cheating leagues so their use is really in the eye of the beholder.

Jestre · 01-20-2004, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Karen Lutz
Let's keep this simple:

I will end this with 1 simple question.
If we were to keep the cheating threads open and allow them to stay for days and days at the top of the online leagues area, how many new people do you think will have much faith in the community?

This is the simple point and the reason why.

I can answer with a question: How many OOTP players have had massive amounts of time wasted by cheaters and have lost interest in OOTP that could have been avoided by exposure on this site????

Why should cheater threads scare off new people??? It's obvious in a game such as this that cheating is going to be possible so why shouldn't there be some constructive deterrent to those that may cheat???

This site is a tool for online leagues, not just to post for league openings but to share info and increase the enjoyment of all concerned. Cheaters are the worst thing that can happen to a league and anything that provides a deterrent or puts a stop to a cheater is absolutely necessary to a site like this.

Karen Lutz · 01-20-2004, 08:23 AM

I know personally quite a few more people who were scared off by the large and many threads about cheating than the ones who actually participated in leagues that failed.

There is no one stopping you from posting about cheaters, but they don't have to be long drawn out sagas either. This is the new medium, it is the medium that makes things enjoyable for all involved.

spleen1015 · 01-20-2004, 08:26 AM

This is not the "Cheating in Online Leagues" Forum. This is the "Online Leagues" Forum.

The description of this forum is "This is the place to post league openings and a desire to be a part of a league."

So, if your post doesn't fit into the above, then post it else where.

Like this thread. It has no business in this forum because it has nothing to do with a league opening or your desire to be in a league.

Ball Breaker needs to shut this puppy down!

Jestre · 01-20-2004, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spleen1015
This is not the "Cheating in Online Leagues" Forum. This is the "Online Leagues" Forum.

The description of this forum is "This is the place to post league openings and a desire to be a part of a league."

So, if your post doesn't fit into the above, then post it else where.

Like this thread. It has no business in this forum because it has nothing to do with a league opening or your desire to be in a league.

Ball Breaker needs to shut this puppy down!

I fully expected this thread to be shut down when I started it, I just wanted to make my point that there are many of us on this board that believe that exposing cheaters is more important than maintaining board 'decorum' , actually I'm surprised it has been 'allowed' to go on this long.

Karen Lutz · 01-20-2004, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spleen1015
This is not the "Cheating in Online Leagues" Forum. This is the "Online Leagues" Forum.

The description of this forum is "This is the place to post league openings and a desire to be a part of a league."

So, if your post doesn't fit into the above, then post it else where.

Like this thread. It has no business in this forum because it has nothing to do with a league opening or your desire to be in a league.

Ball Breaker needs to shut this puppy down!

Oh I will, lol, once the point has been made and understood. There are a lot of people who stopped coming here because of trash threads. I know a lot of people are starting to come back to this forum because they don't have to put up with the old saga's anymore. I will work on leaving cheating threads open as long as they are not saga's. Once I feel that everything that can be said is said in threads like those, they will be closed.

As users you always deserve an explination for why this is changing, but it is and you have your explination. There is no way everyone will like it, but it is a simple solution to the unneccassary saga's of old.

GODHAN · 01-20-2004, 08:38 AM

is there a section to post about cheaters or like a blacklist?

Karen Lutz · 01-20-2004, 08:42 AM

No, and there won't be one simply because sometimes the judges and juries on the people who seemingly belong on a blacklist aren't always the best people to decided who is blacklisted and who isn't. Leagues were a crap shoot before and leagues are a crapshoot now, nothing has changed in that regard. You may expose all the cheaters you like, but as I said before, the general population of posters is pretty well split on the idea of saga threads, some like them, some don't, so a compromise has been made, and this is it.

Karen Lutz · 01-20-2004, 08:51 AM

Well, I padded my post count more than enough in this thread, not that it matters. I also believe I have subjected myself to the firing line long enough. The best you will get from me is that I will work to leave these threads open longer as long as they do not turn into sagas. If there is no more to say and people are simply in it for the debate and the extra posts, then this is neither the place nor the way to do it. I will also leave this thread open so you guys can get it out of your system, but saga threads will be no more. Cheating threads are fine, but only if the people can control themselves, that isn't too much to ask is it?

Draft Dodger · 01-20-2004, 09:13 AM

Karen rocks!

dougaiton · 01-20-2004, 09:33 AM

I'm with Karen on this one. What the FitDog threads in the end boiled down to was 20 people goind 'duh...what an idiot', and 'I can't believe what your doing' etc. etc. for every one post the chump made. At that point it totally ceased to be about OnLine Leagues, like the Rockze fiasco. We all love a train wreck, but once it was established that the subject is a cheat/lunatic, then what the hell purpose did the 9 or 10 other threads that sprung up have anything to do with it?

We have the cheaters exposed still, but what we all enjoyed most was the denials by and the humiliation of the guilty party. That was great fun, but was it in the best interests of anyone connected to OOTP Developments? Once they're labelled, job done - it (as I understand) is Karen's job to keep them under control.

CommishJoe · 01-20-2004, 09:43 AM

No need to pad my post count, so I must actually believe what I am about to type

Karen has a job to do. To keep this forum on-topic. The topic is to advertise opening in on-line leagues. Not to out cheaters. Not to pile on a suspected cheater. Not to post cheaters suxuors a 1/2 million times.

Also, what says these commishes are actually cheating? Who is the judge and jury on this? Just because some snot nosed kid comes whining to this forum because he got fired from an on-line league, does that mean we should allow that league to be damaged? Now yes, there have been some legit threads. And yes, I'm sure they may be helpful in a way. But, unless we can be sure we aren't hurting an innocent commish from a 12 year old with an attitude, I don't think there is a place for it here.

Another point is those threads tend to run amok. If it stayed just the owners in the league and the commish that would be one thing. However, most of these threads resemble a WWF wrestling match. This is a baseball board, not a male soap opera.

Bottom line, the guy posts the commish is cheating. The commish gets a fair chance to respond, and the thread closes. Sounds like a good cycle to me.

Karen Lutz · 01-20-2004, 09:48 AM

and that, Joe, is exactly what will be done.

Ok, you have my promise that I will leave them open longer and we have our points made, if anyone wishes to make any more points on this I will gladly accept your wrath, my aim is k2lynnlutz

This is the verdict: Cheating threads are not out but saga threads are. This is the compromise, it always was, but now you know it. I think I will go to bed now, lol, it is almost 8am my time.

01-20-2004, 07:22 AM	#1
Jestre All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: North Smithfield,Ri,USA Posts: 612	Cheating Threads???? Can someone please explain to me why any thread 'outting' a cheater is immediately shut down. I find them informative and entertaining and gauging by the number of posts therein so do many others. Virtually all cheating threads are titled such that they are easily recognizable by the title and therefore easily avoidable by those that don't wish to read them.... Is it a personal thing by the board vice squad or just another example of PC run amok???? __________________ My eyes perceive the present, but my roots are imbedded deeply in the grandeur of the past. "Chief Meyers"

01-20-2004, 08:10 AM	#6
obpbsl Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 171	Well...cheating threads are a double edge sword in my opinion. Recently I had to let go of a very good owner because it was brought to my attention he was cheating in another league. In 1 way it's good information to know of this kind of activity, however if I didn't know, I would still think he was a very good owner in my league. I would like to know what other commishes would have done in this situtation? My reasoning behind it was basically this: 1. Caught cheating in another league, who's to say he wouldn't do it again. 2. Tried to 'take advantage' of the game itself (ie. play position players at DH, or starters at MR in order to get the financial break). I consider this a form of cheating as you are aware of the effects. It really pained me to have to let this owner go, but I felt I did what was best for the league as a whole. So what would other commishes have done? __________________ Adam McLean OBPBSL Commish \| Athletics GM http://www.obpbsl.com

01-20-2004, 08:38 AM	#14
GODHAN Minors (Double A) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: LA, NY Posts: 123	is there a section to post about cheaters or like a blacklist? __________________ Dodger Blue Forever LA Dodgers - Stat Geeks Anaheim Angels - Aaron Smart Baseball LA Dodgers - Big League Baseball

01-20-2004, 09:13 AM	#17
Draft Dodger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: formerly of the OTBL Posts: 4,113	Karen rocks! __________________ Draft Dodger (Anarchy: Anything goes. The Draft Dodger viewpoint.) Sophmoric[sic] Member of the OOTP Boards (It's not OOTP; it's your computer) 15 GB Webhosting for $6.95 a month IMO we are best off abandoning that sinking ship that is Off Topic to the rats infesting it and just starting a whole new Baseball Forum from scratch.

01-20-2004, 09:33 AM	#18
dougaiton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Location: Posts: 3,414	I'm with Karen on this one. What the FitDog threads in the end boiled down to was 20 people goind 'duh...what an idiot', and 'I can't believe what your doing' etc. etc. for every one post the chump made. At that point it totally ceased to be about OnLine Leagues, like the Rockze fiasco. We all love a train wreck, but once it was established that the subject is a cheat/lunatic, then what the hell purpose did the 9 or 10 other threads that sprung up have anything to do with it? We have the cheaters exposed still, but what we all enjoyed most was the denials by and the humiliation of the guilty party. That was great fun, but was it in the best interests of anyone connected to OOTP Developments? Once they're labelled, job done - it (as I understand) is Karen's job to keep them under control. __________________ tThis shower of clowns My park-adjusted, historically split Born in '69 league file! (also at Joe's wonderful site +BBSC)

01-20-2004, 07:50 AM	#2
clarnzz All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Following everyone off a cliff. Posts: 1,522	Perhaps if they are going to be closed they should also be "sticky"'ed at the top of the forum so everyone gets a chance to be exposed to the information. They kinda fall off the face of the earth fast and if you didn't happen to log in during the 3 hours the thread is open it's almost like they never even cheated.

01-20-2004, 07:51 AM	#3
Karen Lutz Ball Breaker Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada OOTPChampionships: 5 Posts: 898	Let's keep this simple: OOTP Online Leagues: This is the place to post league openings and a desire to be a part of a league. Threads about cheating are not deleted, they are closed after the point has been made. If you need to have 'fun' with your posts, it is encouraged, but keep it on-topic, if it is off-topic, there is a section for that. I will end this with 1 simple question. If we were to keep the cheating threads open and allow them to stay for days and days at the top of the online leagues area, how many new people do you think will have much faith in the community? This is the simple point and the reason why.

01-20-2004, 08:23 AM	#10
Karen Lutz Ball Breaker Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada OOTPChampionships: 5 Posts: 898	I know personally quite a few more people who were scared off by the large and many threads about cheating than the ones who actually participated in leagues that failed. There is no one stopping you from posting about cheaters, but they don't have to be long drawn out sagas either. This is the new medium, it is the medium that makes things enjoyable for all involved.

01-20-2004, 08:26 AM	#11
spleen1015 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,008	This is not the "Cheating in Online Leagues" Forum. This is the "Online Leagues" Forum. The description of this forum is "This is the place to post league openings and a desire to be a part of a league." So, if your post doesn't fit into the above, then post it else where. Like this thread. It has no business in this forum because it has nothing to do with a league opening or your desire to be in a league. Ball Breaker needs to shut this puppy down!

01-20-2004, 08:42 AM	#15
Karen Lutz Ball Breaker Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada OOTPChampionships: 5 Posts: 898	No, and there won't be one simply because sometimes the judges and juries on the people who seemingly belong on a blacklist aren't always the best people to decided who is blacklisted and who isn't. Leagues were a crap shoot before and leagues are a crapshoot now, nothing has changed in that regard. You may expose all the cheaters you like, but as I said before, the general population of posters is pretty well split on the idea of saga threads, some like them, some don't, so a compromise has been made, and this is it.

01-20-2004, 08:51 AM	#16
Karen Lutz Ball Breaker Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada OOTPChampionships: 5 Posts: 898	Well, I padded my post count more than enough in this thread, not that it matters. I also believe I have subjected myself to the firing line long enough. The best you will get from me is that I will work to leave these threads open longer as long as they do not turn into sagas. If there is no more to say and people are simply in it for the debate and the extra posts, then this is neither the place nor the way to do it. I will also leave this thread open so you guys can get it out of your system, but saga threads will be no more. Cheating threads are fine, but only if the people can control themselves, that isn't too much to ask is it?

01-20-2004, 09:43 AM	#19
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	No need to pad my post count, so I must actually believe what I am about to type Karen has a job to do. To keep this forum on-topic. The topic is to advertise opening in on-line leagues. Not to out cheaters. Not to pile on a suspected cheater. Not to post cheaters suxuors a 1/2 million times. Also, what says these commishes are actually cheating? Who is the judge and jury on this? Just because some snot nosed kid comes whining to this forum because he got fired from an on-line league, does that mean we should allow that league to be damaged? Now yes, there have been some legit threads. And yes, I'm sure they may be helpful in a way. But, unless we can be sure we aren't hurting an innocent commish from a 12 year old with an attitude, I don't think there is a place for it here. Another point is those threads tend to run amok. If it stayed just the owners in the league and the commish that would be one thing. However, most of these threads resemble a WWF wrestling match. This is a baseball board, not a male soap opera. Bottom line, the guy posts the commish is cheating. The commish gets a fair chance to respond, and the thread closes. Sounds like a good cycle to me. __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.

01-20-2004, 09:48 AM	#20
Karen Lutz Ball Breaker Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada OOTPChampionships: 5 Posts: 898	and that, Joe, is exactly what will be done. Ok, you have my promise that I will leave them open longer and we have our points made, if anyone wishes to make any more points on this I will gladly accept your wrath, my aim is k2lynnlutz This is the verdict: Cheating threads are not out but saga threads are. This is the compromise, it always was, but now you know it. I think I will go to bed now, lol, it is almost 8am my time.