OOTP crash into reformating HD

MiddleGA · 04-11-2002, 03:24 PM

I'm 2-for-2.

Installed & simmed two sessions with OOTP4 before experiencing a complete system lockdown. Only method to reboot was to unplug the machine from the outlet (even the power button was inoperable after the crash).

Upon re-boot, discovered that "ifshelp.sys" & "vmm32.vxd" files were missing or corrupt. That led to a reformat of my HD Tuesday night.

Re-installed & tried again today. Played longer, simming into May in two gaming sessions before stopping for a while, no problems. Exited game properly, no problems. Tried to resume playing tonight, poof ... *total lockdown* again. Never actually resumed simming, shutdown occurred after the league loaded but before any additional play, selected team, selected roster and then ... nothing. Coult ctl-alt-del to see that the pgm was "not responding" but could not shut down, close pgm or anything else. Locked down, on/off button inoperable. Not much choice after 20 minutes except to pull the plug. Sure enough ... "ifshlp.sys" & "vmm32.vxd" corrupt/missing again.
Which means I'm heading for another reformat.

I routinely checked system resources throughout the day today and immediately before trying to re-start tonight. 89%-90% at all times.

Comp is a Sony Vaio RX462-DS
WIN Me
40GB HD
256MB RDRAM
nVidia GeForce 2MX

So now I'm stuck with two kinda pressing questions:

1) Does OOTP4 make _any_ changes to the vmm32.vxd file? I believe not, but having used the comp lightly but successfully for 2 months prior to installing ootp4 and having reformatted my HD twice after installing, you can see where I have to ask.
Power outages, plug pulled in error by kid, several instances where power interrupted proper shutdown in the past but no problems re-booting previously.

2) WTF is causing the crash in OOTP4? Each of the 3 lockups have occurred in different phases of the game (fwiw, both in May of first season but on different dates, not on 1st or last day of month/week or anything remarkable). I've had the same incident occur at the end of a simmed day and without simming at all, just looking at roster.
Minus the crash, there's no need to pull the power, and somewhere between those two occurences I'm sittin' here reformatting HD's.

Anxiously awaiting some ideas,
Jon

Steve Kuffrey · 04-11-2002, 03:47 PM

Jon,

Ugh, gotta hate that. I don't have any ideas currently. The ONLY thing that has ever given me a problem w/ v4 is when a SP is injured and still in his rotation slot. Then the game seems to freeze when you come to that game in the schedule. I adjusted this situation and had no other lock-ups, crashes or problems. The above doesn't appear to be your case but might check it.

[ 04-11-2002, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: Steve Kuffrey ]

MiddleGA · 04-11-2002, 03:58 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Steve Kuffrey:
The ONLY thing that has ever given me a problem w/ v4 is when a SP is injured and still in his rotation slot. Then the game seems to freeze when you come to that game in the schedule. I adjusted this situation and had no other lock-ups, crashes or problems. The above doesn't appear to be your case but might check it.<hr /></blockquote>Checked already actually, at least I'm sure about the only team under human control. The latest crash occurred after exiting/saving succesfully. And all my players (such as the '71 Braves are) were healthy when I ended the previous session. Didn't get to play a single game in the most recent session, so no way for them to have gotten injured.

Sigh.

Jon

MTXperience · 04-11-2002, 04:50 PM

Are you using 4.0c? This has fixed the 100% CPU usage problem. If OOTP4 was infact taxing the CPU that much (I'm not sure it was), it MIGHT have caused your MB to shutdown to avoid overheating. I'm not familiar with that particular model of computer. It the case a full size ATX, or some small Sony propietary design (ala HP... grr...)? Do you know what brand and/or model Mother Board you have?

MiddleGA · 04-11-2002, 05:08 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MTXperience:
It the case a full size ATX, or some small Sony propietary design (ala HP... grr...)? Do you know what brand and/or model Mother Board you have?<hr /></blockquote>I'm not sure what the dimensions for full vs mid size are, but I'd probably call this one a large midsize at about 14" tall. If it matters, the fan grate is the largest I've ever seen on a comp, rectangular about 2"x4"(?). In other words, the opening is the size of my fingers from tip to hand instead of the palm of my hand like I'm accustomed to seeing. {gotta love precise measurements, eh?)

No idea the brand/model of motherboard off hand.

Running latest version, as I only d'loaded OOTP4 for the first time earlier this week. Was not using resource meter utility while playing, opting to avoid having any other programs running as had been recommended in the past. If I give it a 3rd try, I'll keep close check on that throughout. I'm gathering that there could be an issue in play here other than the ever-popular Windows "memory leakage" that I'm familiar with.

Jon

[ 04-11-2002, 11:12 PM: Message edited by: MiddleGA ]

Scott Vibert · 04-11-2002, 06:57 PM

Jon,

Have you tried running computer manager, if the crash is occurring during simming, its typically an invalid lineup, rotation, or depth chart for at least one of the teams involved in the game. Players in the lineup without positions is another good source for error.

MiddleGA · 04-17-2002, 05:52 PM

By way of an update ...

No further reformats but came awfully close today, unrelated to OOTP4 as far as I can tell.

Simmed for 2-3 days with no problems until Sunday afternoon. That's when a squirrel decides to ground himself on one of our little town's main power lines, blacking out several neighborhoods for several hours. I,naturally, was simming my way through 1972 at the time. Lo & behold, after the power comes back on, the comp reboots just fine with no data loss. Joy, rapture, thrill.

No hints of trouble until today. For no obvious reason, IE decides to lock up. Severe crash (i.e. even the on/off switch was disabled). Pulled the plug & bingo -- ifshlp.sys & vmm32.vxd are missing or corrupt. But this time I had a plan.

Thanks to, of all things, an old Win95 boot disk, I managed to get into DOS. (Oddly, a fresh WinMe emergency disk wouldn't do much of anything). From there I copy both files from a floppy back into the appropriate directories on C: -- like magic, I'm back in business with no data loss.

If there's a Windows expert hanging around, please riddle me this -- Why am I getting corrupt/missing msgs on those two files after abnormal shutdowns? And why only sometimes? And better still, why the #$%#$% did copying them back into C:\windows & c:\windows\system work even though both files were already present in identical form?

It's the last part that has me stumped. Checking dir a:\ & dir c:\windows showed identical date/time stamps & file size for both files. So how come simply overwriting the originals actually worked?

Happy but confused,
Jon

Grissom · 04-18-2002, 01:52 PM

Middlega, I had almost the same problem as you last week, my opinion ...Windows ME, Its very unstable, also I have the exact same graphics card. What drivers are using on the graphics card?
I went back and reinstlaaed 3.11 drivers and now everything seems more stable?

MTXperience · 04-19-2002, 10:25 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Grissom:
Middlega, I had almost the same problem as you last week, my opinion ...Windows ME, Its very unstable, <hr /></blockquote>Opinion nothing, it seems to be a stone cold fact. I myself have VERY little experience with the beast that is Windows ME, but I've heard quite a few number of horror stories. If I recall correctly ME crashed on Gates when he was unveiling it at some trade show or what not.

Best suggestion I can give is:

1) Windows 98SE - If it can still be found, I'd snag it. I use it, I'm content with it.
2) Windows 2K - If you don't play a whole lot of different games, and aren't worried about the compatability of that shiny GeForce you've got sitting in your box, this is the way to go. My experience as a gamer with it wasn't great, but I believe more Service Packs hae come out to rectify this (I had 2K SP2, and it would freeze constantly).
3) Windows XP - Microsoft still probably wants $100 for this, but it seems like good code. I myself have a hard time justifying giving Microsoft ANYTHING.

MiddleGA · 04-19-2002, 03:17 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Grissom:
Middlega, I had almost the same problem as you last week, my opinion ...Windows ME, Its very unstable, also I have the exact same graphics card. What drivers are using on the graphics card?
I went back and reinstlaaed 3.11 drivers and now everything seems more stable?

<hr /></blockquote>Veddy interestink.

From what I could find in several hours of searching online, the problem isn't unique but it's awfully uncommon. And yet I've had 2 other people in sportsgame forums tell me they've been through the same thing in the past couple of weeks.

I have no idea (without checking;I'm on a different comp right now) what drivers are installed for the vidcard, since they're simply whatever came with the default installation. I don't think OOTP4 installed new ones, although I'm not 100% positive about that. (Steve? Markus? Somebody?)

Maybe just maybe you've given me a killer clue. Thanks in advance.

Meanwhile, as for the opsys, I'm not really a fan of WinMe either. But on another machine it's actually been far more stable than 95, only a slight difference that I've noticed from 98 (although I rarely ever worked on a 98 machine).

I want no part of XP since I'm not at all comfortable about some of the "security" aspects that apparently go with (What is or isn't on my HD isn't any business of Bill Gates & his minions. I haven't stolen any software from him & without a search warrant that's all he needs to know).
But when buying this comp at retail lately my only choices were dozens of models with XP or 2 older ones with Me. I chose the latter, after much debating whether to buy a full version of 98 & simply reformat straight out of the box. May have to rethink that decision.

Thanks for the input gang, I appreciate it.
Jon

Steve Kuffrey · 04-19-2002, 03:42 PM

Jon,

No OOTP doesn't install any drivers. But I would agree with the above that Windows ME is not very good at all. I used it about 6 months and had to reboot my PC several times during the day.

MiddleGA · 04-19-2002, 04:01 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Steve Kuffrey:
Jon,

No OOTP doesn't install any drivers. But I would agree with the above that Windows ME is not very good at all. I used it about 6 months and had to reboot my PC several times during the day.<hr /></blockquote>Thanks Steve, I figured as much but you know how it goes -- when a computer goes all hinky, the one thing you overlook is often the problem

So that eliminates another possibility for me.

After reading a darned good <a href="http://www.geforcefaq.com" target="_blank">GeForce FAQ</a> I'm seriously wondering if my problems don't rest somewhere in that area.

I'm currently running 4.xx drivers, looking for the 3.xx mentioned earlier in this thread to try them.

If there's any other OOTP4'ers who are running the same video card as me (GeForce2 MX) I'd sure appreciate knowing which driver set you're using.

FYI, since my last update, I've had to copy the 2 troubled files back into place another time. Trying to shut down via the start menu (of all things) caused a severe system crash, which led to pulling the plug, etc. But this, hopefully temporary, fix has worked twice in a row.

Fingers crossed,
Jon

Grissom · 04-19-2002, 04:04 PM

I have had no problems since reinstalling the originl drivers from my video card not sure if
this caused the problem. If anything else turns up I will sure to post it here

MTXperience · 04-19-2002, 04:05 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MiddleGA:

I want no part of XP since I'm not at all comfortable about some of the "security" aspects that apparently go with (What is or isn't on my HD isn't any business of Bill Gates & his minions. I haven't stolen any software from him & without a search warrant that's all he needs to know)<hr /></blockquote>Hear hear... XP's "copy-protection" is VERY insideous if you ask me.

MiddleGA · 04-24-2002, 02:51 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MiddleGA:
But this, hopefully temporary, fix has worked twice in a row.<hr /></blockquote>So much for that idea.

A sudden rash of inexplicable lock-ups (3 in 2 days) is finally sending the Sony to the shop. I've locked up when online, I've locked up while playing OOTP, even locked up while trying to go through the shutdown sequence with everything else running smoothly. The reinstall files process that worked so well suddenly became difficult, with failure after failure to be able to read anything in the c:\windows directory (with abrupt success randomly after first 10, then nearly 30, minutes worth of trying).

Even that luck ran out today, with more than an hour wasted with zero success. Finally maanged to get the DOS scandisk to work, with nearly 100 errors repaired. Some but not all though, as nothing seemed to make the sucker rebootable.

Prelminary (i.e. via phone) diagnosis from the shop says a bad HD is the likely source of the trouble, which would explain why reinstalling/restoring Windows does nothing for the problem.

Now things may get really interesting. I bought the extended warranty & service plan at the time of the comp purchase. But this is a model they no longer stock chain wide, so how they'll handle their "replacement with no problems" guarantee will be interesting.

Compounding my misery is the fact that my wife has threatened my life if I so much as get OOTP4 near either of our other comps (one loaded with work stuff, the other with personal stuff). You may believe it had nothing to do with the recent problems, I may believe it's unconnected but getting her to be confident of that ain't gonna happen until she gets the final word from the shop that the problem was hardware not software.

So it looks like my 70's era dynasty is once again on indefinite hold

Jon

MiddleGA · 05-01-2002, 08:54 AM

Hopefully, this will be the last time I have to update this thread.

Finally got the word from the shop yesterday --
Repeated lockups (with OOTP4 nowhere near the comp), diagnostics indicate a good old fashioned HD gone bad.

New HD ordered, expect comp back in my hands late next week.

Jon

Scott Vibert · 05-01-2002, 09:08 AM

Sorry to hear about the HD, although its good to hear that OOTP likely wasn't the cause....

Good luck with the new HD Jon.

Henry · 05-01-2002, 10:11 AM

Well, i saw this thread for the first time today... glad you found your problem and yes, all the symptoms of a HD issue.

By the way guys, I don't necessarily like WinME either but that's what I've been running since the release of OOTP3 and no problems (and I never turn my machine off).

Oh - your wife should let you play now

haloran · 05-01-2002, 11:15 AM

<a href="http://support.microsoft.com/search/preview.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q258471" target="_blank">http://support.microsoft.com/search/preview.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q258471</a>

Scroll to the bottom and follow the instructions.
Best I can do without being there...
Hope this works!!!!!!!!!!

MiddleGA · 05-01-2002, 05:15 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Henry:
Oh - your wife should let you play now

<hr /></blockquote>Yep

Although she still gave me this look kinda like "are you surrrre you should do this"

I've actually been holding off on restarting today after reading about the latest work being done on the Lahman db. If I could time a fresh start to coincide with that release, it'd be great. But I don't know if that's gonna work out that way; if paitience is a virtue, I'm a complete slut

Jon

04-11-2002, 03:24 PM	#1
MiddleGA Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 77	OOTP crash into reformating HD I'm 2-for-2. Installed & simmed two sessions with OOTP4 before experiencing a complete system lockdown. Only method to reboot was to unplug the machine from the outlet (even the power button was inoperable after the crash). Upon re-boot, discovered that "ifshelp.sys" & "vmm32.vxd" files were missing or corrupt. That led to a reformat of my HD Tuesday night. Re-installed & tried again today. Played longer, simming into May in two gaming sessions before stopping for a while, no problems. Exited game properly, no problems. Tried to resume playing tonight, poof ... total lockdown again. Never actually resumed simming, shutdown occurred after the league loaded but before any additional play, selected team, selected roster and then ... nothing. Coult ctl-alt-del to see that the pgm was "not responding" but could not shut down, close pgm or anything else. Locked down, on/off button inoperable. Not much choice after 20 minutes except to pull the plug. Sure enough ... "ifshlp.sys" & "vmm32.vxd" corrupt/missing again. Which means I'm heading for another reformat. I routinely checked system resources throughout the day today and immediately before trying to re-start tonight. 89%-90% at all times. Comp is a Sony Vaio RX462-DS WIN Me 40GB HD 256MB RDRAM nVidia GeForce 2MX So now I'm stuck with two kinda pressing questions: 1) Does OOTP4 make _any_ changes to the vmm32.vxd file? I believe not, but having used the comp lightly but successfully for 2 months prior to installing ootp4 and having reformatted my HD twice after installing, you can see where I have to ask. Power outages, plug pulled in error by kid, several instances where power interrupted proper shutdown in the past but no problems re-booting previously. 2) WTF is causing the crash in OOTP4? Each of the 3 lockups have occurred in different phases of the game (fwiw, both in May of first season but on different dates, not on 1st or last day of month/week or anything remarkable). I've had the same incident occur at the end of a simmed day and without simming at all, just looking at roster. Minus the crash, there's no need to pull the power, and somewhere between those two occurences I'm sittin' here reformatting HD's. Anxiously awaiting some ideas, Jon

04-11-2002, 03:47 PM	#2
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,036	Jon, Ugh, gotta hate that. I don't have any ideas currently. The ONLY thing that has ever given me a problem w/ v4 is when a SP is injured and still in his rotation slot. Then the game seems to freeze when you come to that game in the schedule. I adjusted this situation and had no other lock-ups, crashes or problems. The above doesn't appear to be your case but might check it. <small>[ 04-11-2002, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: Steve Kuffrey ]</small> __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

04-11-2002, 03:58 PM	#3
MiddleGA Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 77	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Steve Kuffrey: <strong>The ONLY thing that has ever given me a problem w/ v4 is when a SP is injured and still in his rotation slot. Then the game seems to freeze when you come to that game in the schedule. I adjusted this situation and had no other lock-ups, crashes or problems. The above doesn't appear to be your case but might check it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Checked already actually, at least I'm sure about the only team under human control. The latest crash occurred after exiting/saving succesfully. And all my players (such as the '71 Braves are) were healthy when I ended the previous session. Didn't get to play a single game in the most recent session, so no way for them to have gotten injured. Sigh. Jon

04-11-2002, 05:08 PM	#5
MiddleGA Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 77	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MTXperience: <strong>It the case a full size ATX, or some small Sony propietary design (ala HP... grr...)? Do you know what brand and/or model Mother Board you have?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not sure what the dimensions for full vs mid size are, but I'd probably call this one a large midsize at about 14" tall. If it matters, the fan grate is the largest I've ever seen on a comp, rectangular about 2"x4"(?). In other words, the opening is the size of my fingers from tip to hand instead of the palm of my hand like I'm accustomed to seeing. {gotta love precise measurements, eh?) No idea the brand/model of motherboard off hand. Running latest version, as I only d'loaded OOTP4 for the first time earlier this week. Was not using resource meter utility while playing, opting to avoid having any other programs running as had been recommended in the past. If I give it a 3rd try, I'll keep close check on that throughout. I'm gathering that there could be an issue in play here other than the ever-popular Windows "memory leakage" that I'm familiar with. Jon <small>[ 04-11-2002, 11:12 PM: Message edited by: MiddleGA ]</small>

04-18-2002, 01:52 PM	#8
Grissom Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 15	Middlega, I had almost the same problem as you last week, my opinion ...Windows ME, Its very unstable, also I have the exact same graphics card. What drivers are using on the graphics card? I went back and reinstlaaed 3.11 drivers and now everything seems more stable? __________________ " I don't know how anyone can stand this?" Whitey Ashburn on Mitch Williams trying to close a game

04-11-2002, 04:50 PM	#4
MTXperience Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 372	Are you using 4.0c? This has fixed the 100% CPU usage problem. If OOTP4 was infact taxing the CPU that much (I'm not sure it was), it MIGHT have caused your MB to shutdown to avoid overheating. I'm not familiar with that particular model of computer. It the case a full size ATX, or some small Sony propietary design (ala HP... grr...)? Do you know what brand and/or model Mother Board you have?

04-11-2002, 06:57 PM	#6
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,249	Jon, Have you tried running computer manager, if the crash is occurring during simming, its typically an invalid lineup, rotation, or depth chart for at least one of the teams involved in the game. Players in the lineup without positions is another good source for error.

04-17-2002, 05:52 PM	#7
MiddleGA Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 77	By way of an update ... No further reformats but came awfully close today, unrelated to OOTP4 as far as I can tell. Simmed for 2-3 days with no problems until Sunday afternoon. That's when a squirrel decides to ground himself on one of our little town's main power lines, blacking out several neighborhoods for several hours. I,naturally, was simming my way through 1972 at the time. Lo & behold, after the power comes back on, the comp reboots just fine with no data loss. Joy, rapture, thrill. No hints of trouble until today. For no obvious reason, IE decides to lock up. Severe crash (i.e. even the on/off switch was disabled). Pulled the plug & bingo -- ifshlp.sys & vmm32.vxd are missing or corrupt. But this time I had a plan. Thanks to, of all things, an old Win95 boot disk, I managed to get into DOS. (Oddly, a fresh WinMe emergency disk wouldn't do much of anything). From there I copy both files from a floppy back into the appropriate directories on C: -- like magic, I'm back in business with no data loss. If there's a Windows expert hanging around, please riddle me this -- Why am I getting corrupt/missing msgs on those two files after abnormal shutdowns? And why only sometimes? And better still, why the #$%#$% did copying them back into C:\windows & c:\windows\system work even though both files were already present in identical form? It's the last part that has me stumped. Checking dir a:\ & dir c:\windows showed identical date/time stamps & file size for both files. So how come simply overwriting the originals actually worked? Happy but confused, Jon

04-19-2002, 10:25 AM	#9
MTXperience Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 372	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Grissom: <strong>Middlega, I had almost the same problem as you last week, my opinion ...Windows ME, Its very unstable, </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Opinion nothing, it seems to be a stone cold fact. I myself have VERY little experience with the beast that is Windows ME, but I've heard quite a few number of horror stories. If I recall correctly ME crashed on Gates when he was unveiling it at some trade show or what not. Best suggestion I can give is: 1) Windows 98SE - If it can still be found, I'd snag it. I use it, I'm content with it. 2) Windows 2K - If you don't play a whole lot of different games, and aren't worried about the compatability of that shiny GeForce you've got sitting in your box, this is the way to go. My experience as a gamer with it wasn't great, but I believe more Service Packs hae come out to rectify this (I had 2K SP2, and it would freeze constantly). 3) Windows XP - Microsoft still probably wants $100 for this, but it seems like good code. I myself have a hard time justifying giving Microsoft ANYTHING.

04-19-2002, 03:17 PM	#10
MiddleGA Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 77	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Grissom: <strong>Middlega, I had almost the same problem as you last week, my opinion ...Windows ME, Its very unstable, also I have the exact same graphics card. What drivers are using on the graphics card? I went back and reinstlaaed 3.11 drivers and now everything seems more stable? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Veddy interestink. From what I could find in several hours of searching online, the problem isn't unique but it's awfully uncommon. And yet I've had 2 other people in sportsgame forums tell me they've been through the same thing in the past couple of weeks. I have no idea (without checking;I'm on a different comp right now) what drivers are installed for the vidcard, since they're simply whatever came with the default installation. I don't think OOTP4 installed new ones, although I'm not 100% positive about that. (Steve? Markus? Somebody?) Maybe just maybe you've given me a killer clue. Thanks in advance. Meanwhile, as for the opsys, I'm not really a fan of WinMe either. But on another machine it's actually been far more stable than 95, only a slight difference that I've noticed from 98 (although I rarely ever worked on a 98 machine). I want no part of XP since I'm not at all comfortable about some of the "security" aspects that apparently go with (What is or isn't on my HD isn't any business of Bill Gates & his minions. I haven't stolen any software from him & without a search warrant that's all he needs to know). But when buying this comp at retail lately my only choices were dozens of models with XP or 2 older ones with Me. I chose the latter, after much debating whether to buy a full version of 98 & simply reformat straight out of the box. May have to rethink that decision. Thanks for the input gang, I appreciate it. Jon

04-19-2002, 03:42 PM	#11
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,036	Jon, No OOTP doesn't install any drivers. But I would agree with the above that Windows ME is not very good at all. I used it about 6 months and had to reboot my PC several times during the day. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

04-19-2002, 04:01 PM	#12
MiddleGA Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 77	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Steve Kuffrey: <strong>Jon, No OOTP doesn't install any drivers. But I would agree with the above that Windows ME is not very good at all. I used it about 6 months and had to reboot my PC several times during the day.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks Steve, I figured as much but you know how it goes -- when a computer goes all hinky, the one thing you overlook is often the problem So that eliminates another possibility for me. After reading a darned good <a href="http://www.geforcefaq.com" target="_blank">GeForce FAQ</a> I'm seriously wondering if my problems don't rest somewhere in that area. I'm currently running 4.xx drivers, looking for the 3.xx mentioned earlier in this thread to try them. If there's any other OOTP4'ers who are running the same video card as me (GeForce2 MX) I'd sure appreciate knowing which driver set you're using. FYI, since my last update, I've had to copy the 2 troubled files back into place another time. Trying to shut down via the start menu (of all things) caused a severe system crash, which led to pulling the plug, etc. But this, hopefully temporary, fix has worked twice in a row. Fingers crossed, Jon

04-19-2002, 04:04 PM	#13
Grissom Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 15	I have had no problems since reinstalling the originl drivers from my video card not sure if this caused the problem. If anything else turns up I will sure to post it here __________________ " I don't know how anyone can stand this?" Whitey Ashburn on Mitch Williams trying to close a game

04-19-2002, 04:05 PM	#14
MTXperience Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 372	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MiddleGA: <strong> I want no part of XP since I'm not at all comfortable about some of the "security" aspects that apparently go with (What is or isn't on my HD isn't any business of Bill Gates & his minions. I haven't stolen any software from him & without a search warrant that's all he needs to know)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hear hear... XP's "copy-protection" is VERY insideous if you ask me.

04-24-2002, 02:51 PM	#15
MiddleGA Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 77	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MiddleGA: But this, hopefully temporary, fix has worked twice in a row.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So much for that idea. A sudden rash of inexplicable lock-ups (3 in 2 days) is finally sending the Sony to the shop. I've locked up when online, I've locked up while playing OOTP, even locked up while trying to go through the shutdown sequence with everything else running smoothly. The reinstall files process that worked so well suddenly became difficult, with failure after failure to be able to read anything in the c:\windows directory (with abrupt success randomly after first 10, then nearly 30, minutes worth of trying). Even that luck ran out today, with more than an hour wasted with zero success. Finally maanged to get the DOS scandisk to work, with nearly 100 errors repaired. Some but not all though, as nothing seemed to make the sucker rebootable. Prelminary (i.e. via phone) diagnosis from the shop says a bad HD is the likely source of the trouble, which would explain why reinstalling/restoring Windows does nothing for the problem. Now things may get really interesting. I bought the extended warranty & service plan at the time of the comp purchase. But this is a model they no longer stock chain wide, so how they'll handle their "replacement with no problems" guarantee will be interesting. Compounding my misery is the fact that my wife has threatened my life if I so much as get OOTP4 near either of our other comps (one loaded with work stuff, the other with personal stuff). You may believe it had nothing to do with the recent problems, I may believe it's unconnected but getting her to be confident of that ain't gonna happen until she gets the final word from the shop that the problem was hardware not software. So it looks like my 70's era dynasty is once again on indefinite hold Jon

05-01-2002, 08:54 AM	#16
MiddleGA Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 77	Hopefully, this will be the last time I have to update this thread. Finally got the word from the shop yesterday -- Repeated lockups (with OOTP4 nowhere near the comp), diagnostics indicate a good old fashioned HD gone bad. New HD ordered, expect comp back in my hands late next week. Jon

05-01-2002, 09:08 AM	#17
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,249	Sorry to hear about the HD, although its good to hear that OOTP likely wasn't the cause.... Good luck with the new HD Jon.

05-01-2002, 10:11 AM	#18
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	Well, i saw this thread for the first time today... glad you found your problem and yes, all the symptoms of a HD issue. By the way guys, I don't necessarily like WinME either but that's what I've been running since the release of OOTP3 and no problems (and I never turn my machine off). Oh - your wife should let you play now

05-01-2002, 11:15 AM	#19
haloran Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Gillette, WY Posts: 8	<a href="http://support.microsoft.com/search/preview.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q258471" target="_blank">http://support.microsoft.com/search/preview.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q258471</a> Scroll to the bottom and follow the instructions. Best I can do without being there... Hope this works!!!!!!!!!!

05-01-2002, 05:15 PM	#20
MiddleGA Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 77	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Henry: <strong>Oh - your wife should let you play now </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep Although she still gave me this look kinda like "are you surrrre you should do this" I've actually been holding off on restarting today after reading about the latest work being done on the Lahman db. If I could time a fresh start to coincide with that release, it'd be great. But I don't know if that's gonna work out that way; if paitience is a virtue, I'm a complete slut Jon