4.0c and screen savers

ShagVT · 04-03-2002, 05:30 AM

I was wondering if the issue with screen savers has been addressed in the 4.0c build, or if there is a plan to fix that soon.

Siv · 04-03-2002, 03:37 PM

What is this problem??

Killebrew · 04-03-2002, 10:51 PM

[quote]Originally posted by ShagVT:
I was wondering if the issue with screen savers has been addressed in the 4.0c build, or if there is a plan to fix that soon.<hr></blockquote>

Sorry but it is not actually a bug, it is the just way the software works with screensavers

. It is a fairly easy problem for screensaver users to avoid though - just turn the game off when you are done playing or disable the screensaver

.

I could be wrong here but I'm not even sure screensavers serve a very useful purpose with modern PC monitor technology. I know it used to be a very useful app (screensavers) back in the day but I think it's mostly for show these days, like a desktop background image.

ukbldodgers · 04-03-2002, 11:29 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Killebrew:

I could be wrong here but I'm not even sure screensavers serve a very useful purpose with modern PC monitor technology. I know it used to be a very useful app (screensavers) back in the day but I think it's mostly for show these days, like a desktop background image.<hr></blockquote>

Modern monitors shouldn't suffer from phosphur burn, which was the point of the old animated screen savers. Also, most modern systems have powersaving which turns the monitor display off totally, which makes the screensaver doubly pointless.
I've have seen reports of 'screen savers' with static text being left on for really long periods of time without powersave causing phosphur burn though.

blynch10 · 04-04-2002, 03:41 AM

Screen Savers are only good for wasting resources.
Turn the monitor off if your worried about burn-in(which isn't supose to be a problem anymore).

jameyhammock · 04-04-2002, 03:54 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Killebrew:


Sorry but it is not actually a bug, it is the just way the software works with screensavers<hr></blockquote>

That's a cop-out. Call it what you want, but the game doesn't interact properly with the OS. It also has issues with repainting the screen while it's doing other processing. Were these design decisions? Maybe. But I'd argue they weren't necessary good ones...

Killebrew · 04-04-2002, 04:18 AM

[quote]Originally posted by jameyhammock:


That's a cop-out. Call it what you want, but the game doesn't interact properly with the OS. It also has issues with repainting the screen while it's doing other processing. Were these design decisions? Maybe. But I'd argue they weren't necessary good ones...<hr></blockquote>

I'm not saying this is a design decision, this is how the software works. A design decision would be Markus wanting the program to do this or that, in this case it is a display issue possibly still related to the switch to the Windowed mode option in a OOTP3 patch. Maybe Markus would have avoided any screensaver conflicts if he would have kept the game at full screen mode only, but I think most users are happy the game has the windowed mode option.

I'm not trying to belittle this complaint anyway, but IMO screensavers are not really vital enough computer software to even bother "copping out" over

. There is a related issue though and that is the powersave conflicts

. It is possible that if Markus can solve the XP powersave video conflicts that this would correct screen saver issues as well.

ShagVT · 04-04-2002, 10:34 AM

OK, here is a better example.

I am simulating a season of OOTP. The process takes, say, 30 minutes.

I'm using Windows XP. My wife decides she wants to switch over to her account and check her email, so she simply taps Windows-L, logs in, and does her thing. When she's done, she logs out and logs me back in.

This is normal, expected behavior with Windows XP. The application keeps running while the other use can do whatever he/she needs. OOTP dies in this case just exactly like it does with a screen saver, and that is a bug. It is basically saying that no other user can use the computer while OOTP is running.

When I first posted this big a few weeks ago, people complained that "it's just the screensaver problem, don't post the same bug multiple times." So this time I post it as a screensaver bug, and I get castigated because people who use screen savers are morons.

Look, this is a legitimate bug - certainly as legitimate as anything else being listed here. OOTP is a windows application ... it should work correctly under windows. Please don't blow me off because you think screen savers are a waste of electricity.

Hammer755 · 04-04-2002, 10:39 AM

[quote]Originally posted by ShagVT:
Please don't blow me off because you think screen savers are a waste of electricity.<hr></blockquote>

Shag, I don't think you're being blown off. My opinion, and I think it's the same presented by Killebrew - Killer please correct me if I'm wrong, is that yes, this is a problem, but it's not that big of a deal to most people, there is a work-around (turn off screen-savers, don't log out of XP) and there are other things that I would like to see fixed first. I understand that you think it's a big problem, but I don't think that sentiment is shared by a lot of people.

[ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: Hammer755 ]

Killebrew · 04-04-2002, 11:06 AM

Yes I agree Hammer755. A problem that only impacts a small portion of the users is still important, but if the fix is a major undertaking and there are relatively easy workarounds, then hopefully people will understand if some other issues might take priority. I pointed out the XP powersave issue in my last post because I think that is a more serious issue than the screensaver one even though they are related. I expect the powersave conflict will become more of a priority as more and more users install the XP OS, but that is not my decision of course

.

I'd like to add that I'm not replying to blow anybody off here. In this and other threads about these same issues I (& many others) have offered solutions that will enable users to completely avoid these problems. Anything beyond that is up to Markus.

SSG Troyer · 04-06-2002, 09:57 AM

I, for one, use a screen saver which "rents" my unused CPU cycles to a provider. "Rents" for free, but Seti@Home downloads packets of data taken from Aricaebo (sp?) and looks them over for signs of intelligent radio traffic. There is so much data, the Berkley researchers didn't have enough CPU time to analyze it all, so they farm out the work to the public in the form of screen savers.

Not all screen savers are a waste of time. Other "client" s/s are used to fight cancer, AIDS, and other diseases.

Having said that, this is an issue not just with screen savers, but anytime OOTP gets minimized (with my system) (windowed or full-screen). Since this does seem to be a system-specific issue, though (some have no problems), I have suggested a Screen Refresh hotkey (Windows 98SE uses [F5]) be put in place, if it wouldn't be too hard. This would solve the problem for ne, at least, and I suspect any others that have it as well.

And yes, when I'm simming a full season or twelve, I turn my s/s off and back on again when I'm done. But it would be nice if I didn't have to.

04-03-2002, 05:30 AM	#1
ShagVT Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 103	4.0c and screen savers I was wondering if the issue with screen savers has been addressed in the 4.0c build, or if there is a plan to fix that soon.

04-03-2002, 10:51 PM	#3
Killebrew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 3,326	[quote]Originally posted by ShagVT: <strong>I was wondering if the issue with screen savers has been addressed in the 4.0c build, or if there is a plan to fix that soon.</strong><hr></blockquote> Sorry but it is not actually a bug, it is the just way the software works with screensavers . It is a fairly easy problem for screensaver users to avoid though - just turn the game off when you are done playing or disable the screensaver . I could be wrong here but I'm not even sure screensavers serve a very useful purpose with modern PC monitor technology. I know it used to be a very useful app (screensavers) back in the day but I think it's mostly for show these days, like a desktop background image. __________________ FOBL Capital City Metropolitans CDL Minnesota Twins

04-03-2002, 11:29 PM	#4
ukbldodgers Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 57	[quote]Originally posted by Killebrew: <strong> I could be wrong here but I'm not even sure screensavers serve a very useful purpose with modern PC monitor technology. I know it used to be a very useful app (screensavers) back in the day but I think it's mostly for show these days, like a desktop background image.</strong><hr></blockquote> Modern monitors shouldn't suffer from phosphur burn, which was the point of the old animated screen savers. Also, most modern systems have powersaving which turns the monitor display off totally, which makes the screensaver doubly pointless. I've have seen reports of 'screen savers' with static text being left on for really long periods of time without powersave causing phosphur burn though. __________________ Andy Brown

04-04-2002, 03:54 AM	#6
jameyhammock Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 223	[quote]Originally posted by Killebrew: <strong> Sorry but it is not actually a bug, it is the just way the software works with screensavers</strong><hr></blockquote> That's a cop-out. Call it what you want, but the game doesn't interact properly with the OS. It also has issues with repainting the screen while it's doing other processing. Were these design decisions? Maybe. But I'd argue they weren't necessary good ones...

04-04-2002, 04:18 AM	#7
Killebrew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 3,326	[quote]Originally posted by jameyhammock: <strong> That's a cop-out. Call it what you want, but the game doesn't interact properly with the OS. It also has issues with repainting the screen while it's doing other processing. Were these design decisions? Maybe. But I'd argue they weren't necessary good ones...</strong><hr></blockquote> I'm not saying this is a design decision, this is how the software works. A design decision would be Markus wanting the program to do this or that, in this case it is a display issue possibly still related to the switch to the Windowed mode option in a OOTP3 patch. Maybe Markus would have avoided any screensaver conflicts if he would have kept the game at full screen mode only, but I think most users are happy the game has the windowed mode option. I'm not trying to belittle this complaint anyway, but IMO screensavers are not really vital enough computer software to even bother "copping out" over . There is a related issue though and that is the powersave conflicts . It is possible that if Markus can solve the XP powersave video conflicts that this would correct screen saver issues as well. __________________ FOBL Capital City Metropolitans CDL Minnesota Twins

04-03-2002, 03:37 PM	#2
Siv Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minnesota Posts: 365	What is this problem??

04-04-2002, 03:41 AM	#5
blynch10 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 273	Screen Savers are only good for wasting resources. Turn the monitor off if your worried about burn-in(which isn't supose to be a problem anymore).

04-04-2002, 10:34 AM	#8
ShagVT Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 103	OK, here is a better example. I am simulating a season of OOTP. The process takes, say, 30 minutes. I'm using Windows XP. My wife decides she wants to switch over to her account and check her email, so she simply taps Windows-L, logs in, and does her thing. When she's done, she logs out and logs me back in. This is normal, expected behavior with Windows XP. The application keeps running while the other use can do whatever he/she needs. OOTP dies in this case just exactly like it does with a screen saver, and that is a bug. It is basically saying that no other user can use the computer while OOTP is running. When I first posted this big a few weeks ago, people complained that "it's just the screensaver problem, don't post the same bug multiple times." So this time I post it as a screensaver bug, and I get castigated because people who use screen savers are morons. Look, this is a legitimate bug - certainly as legitimate as anything else being listed here. OOTP is a windows application ... it should work correctly under windows. Please don't blow me off because you think screen savers are a waste of electricity.

04-04-2002, 10:39 AM	#9
Hammer755 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,348	[quote]Originally posted by ShagVT: <strong>Please don't blow me off because you think screen savers are a waste of electricity.</strong><hr></blockquote> Shag, I don't think you're being blown off. My opinion, and I think it's the same presented by Killebrew - Killer please correct me if I'm wrong, is that yes, this is a problem, but it's not that big of a deal to most people, there is a work-around (turn off screen-savers, don't log out of XP) and there are other things that I would like to see fixed first. I understand that you think it's a big problem, but I don't think that sentiment is shared by a lot of people. [ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: Hammer755 ]</p>

04-04-2002, 11:06 AM	#10
Killebrew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 3,326	Yes I agree Hammer755. A problem that only impacts a small portion of the users is still important, but if the fix is a major undertaking and there are relatively easy workarounds, then hopefully people will understand if some other issues might take priority. I pointed out the XP powersave issue in my last post because I think that is a more serious issue than the screensaver one even though they are related. I expect the powersave conflict will become more of a priority as more and more users install the XP OS, but that is not my decision of course . I'd like to add that I'm not replying to blow anybody off here. In this and other threads about these same issues I (& many others) have offered solutions that will enable users to completely avoid these problems. Anything beyond that is up to Markus. __________________ FOBL Capital City Metropolitans CDL Minnesota Twins

04-06-2002, 09:57 AM	#11
SSG Troyer All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Somewhere to the left of 2nd base Posts: 1,598	I, for one, use a screen saver which "rents" my unused CPU cycles to a provider. "Rents" for free, but Seti@Home downloads packets of data taken from Aricaebo (sp?) and looks them over for signs of intelligent radio traffic. There is so much data, the Berkley researchers didn't have enough CPU time to analyze it all, so they farm out the work to the public in the form of screen savers. Not all screen savers are a waste of time. Other "client" s/s are used to fight cancer, AIDS, and other diseases. Having said that, this is an issue not just with screen savers, but anytime OOTP gets minimized (with my system) (windowed or full-screen). Since this does seem to be a system-specific issue, though (some have no problems), I have suggested a Screen Refresh hotkey (Windows 98SE uses [F5]) be put in place, if it wouldn't be too hard. This would solve the problem for ne, at least, and I suspect any others that have it as well. And yes, when I'm simming a full season or twelve, I turn my s/s off and back on again when I'm done. But it would be nice if I didn't have to. __________________ MWT Did Tennesee Delaware Mississppi's New Jersey? Idaho ... Alaska!