Tino to the D-Rays

ey215 · 11-21-2003, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Associated Press
ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. -- Tampa native Tino Martinez was traded from the St. Louis Cardinals to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays on Friday for a minor league pitching prospect.

St. Louis gets pitcher Evan Rust and a player to be named.

Martinez is owed $7.5 million next season under the $21 million, three-year deal he agreed to with the Cardinals in December 2001, and his contract contains an $8 million option for 2005 with a $1 million buyout.

St. Louis will pay $7 million of the remaining $8.5 million Martinez is guaranteed, a baseball official said on the condition of anonymity.

The 36-year-old Martinez, a former University of Tampa star and a 14-year major league veteran, has slumped badly in recent years. In 138 games last season, the first baseman hit .273 with 15 homers and 69 RBIs. He had 71 strikeouts and 53 walks.

Martinez, a career .273 hitter, played six seasons with the Seattle Mariners and six seasons with the New York Yankees, winning four World Series titles in New York.

Martinez, his wife Maria, and their three children, ages 7 to 11, live in Tampa, where Martinez helped lead Tampa Catholic High School to the Florida state title in 1982. At the University of Tampa, Martinez was a three-time Division II All-American.

I'm trying to be excited to talk about this one but just can't pull it off.

Of course that could be the cold medication.

Discuss...

SoxWin · 11-21-2003, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ey215
I'm trying to be excited to talk about this one but just can't pull it off.

Of course that could be the cold medication.

Discuss...

Am I missing something or what? It seems that many teams cry of having to lower payroll or lose a salary to sign someone else, then they pay a guy to play somewhere else. What's the point, if you're going to pay him, why not give him a uniform?

Karros270 · 11-21-2003, 04:17 PM

St Louis didn't need him anymore and this way at least they get a prospect for him instead of having him ride the bench. It's a good thing Mark McGuire retired when he did so St Louis could free up the money to sign Tino. The Yankee's definitely made a good decision to let him go when they did.

Rizon · 11-21-2003, 04:30 PM

I thought Tino retired like 4 years ago.

sporr · 11-21-2003, 05:42 PM

Excellent, another over-the-hill veteran for Tampa Bay.

SoxWin · 11-21-2003, 06:02 PM

Another???? Who the heck are the rest of them?

Spielman · 11-21-2003, 07:43 PM

Stupid move by the Cards.

CardinalMan suggested in another aborted thread that was supposed to be a reply to this one that the Cardinal owners are intending to eat Tino's salary as a bad investment, and not count it towards the player budget that Walt Jocketty has to work with.

If true, all that means is that Jocketty's budget doesn't mean a damn thing. They're still spending the money, no matter how they choose to spin it, and the money's going down a hole now.

Martinez wasn't worth the money they paid him. He wasn't a very good hitter for a first baseman. But sadly, he'll probably still be better than whoever they wind up putting into left field.

LaRussa's comments: "One of the things we are trying to do is improve our table-setters at the top of the lineup. Because first base is a position primarily reserved for run-producers, we feel that we have a better chance of finding a leadoff hitter to play the outfield rather than first base."

So, despite the fact that Pujols is a perfectly acceptible left fielder with a good arm, they'll send him to first base because he's a run producer, and neglect the fact that it's easier to find a decent hitter who can play first base than it is to find a decent hitter who can play the outfield.

Cardinals got worse because of this trade... not so much because of the trade, but because of the stupid way they're going to try to fill the hole which results.

-Spielman

CardinalMan · 11-21-2003, 09:07 PM

The Cards owners are, if you will, giving Jocketty a mulligan on this one.

Pujols is an average at best left fielder with a bad right elbow. He is an above average first baseman. Why not move him? Outfielders that hit like Tino are a dime a dozen, his bat can easily be replaced and a little speed added taboot.

The money will be put into pitching, great offense and a patchwork pitching staff doesn't work.

cshigh · 11-21-2003, 11:13 PM

I like it. D-rays get a decent first baseman to play in front of his home crowd. Tino is from Tampa. He won't be an All-Star, but should fill in a gap.

Spielman · 11-22-2003, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CardinalMan
The Cards owners are, if you will, giving Jocketty a mulligan on this one.

Pujols is an average at best left fielder with a bad right elbow. He is an above average first baseman. Why not move him? Outfielders that hit like Tino are a dime a dozen, his bat can easily be replaced and a little speed added taboot.

The money will be put into pitching, great offense and a patchwork pitching staff doesn't work.

Again, what money?

They're not giving Jocketty a mulligan, they're raising the player budget by ~$7 million and using this as an excuse to say that that's not what they're doing so they don't look like they're actually successful. A four year old should be able to see that.

No #### they need to improve the pitching. But that money is not coming from this trade... it's coming from the owners deciding to raise the player budget. Seperate events.

-Spielman

Skipaway · 11-22-2003, 12:09 PM

It's somewhat a nothing for nothing trade. St. Louis saved 1.5mil, and Tampa Bay got a 1.5mil below average first baseman.

CardinalMan · 11-22-2003, 12:21 PM

Nice Spielman, thanks for your input. What are you arguing about? How the Cardinals wish to organize their finances is their business, how they wish to label their expenditures is also their business.

Cardinals owners haven't been crying about losing money at all, not sure why you think they are trying to hide their financial success. Fact is St.Louis is a small to medium sized market with a payroll for a much larger market and you never hear the owners whine about money, never.

Seems like you're awfully pissed off for no reason at all.

Gotta agree with Skip, it's a nothing deal...

http://www.ilikecoconuts.com/arguing.jpg

Tarin · 11-22-2003, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SoxWin
Another???? Who the heck are the rest of them?

Al Martin
Jose Canseco
Greg Vaughn
Paul Sorrento
Wade Boggs
Fred McGriff
Tino Martinez
Dwight Gooden

Yes, I'm going back a couple of years. But its a historical pattern. We finally have young players who can develop with playing time, so we go out and get a guy not worth getting.

I'm pretty freaking tired of the Front office thinking we can bribe fans to come by picking up guys who are from Tampa once upon a time. If we get a player who lived in Tampa and he sucks compared to what we could have had from somewhere else, then it just makes the fans resent it more. Most of the Tampa fans i've talked to are unhappy about this deal as am I.

Rust is a promising pitcher and we all have the feeling that the player to be named later will be another one. We should have just payed travis lee what he wanted, but Pinella is convinced that the players that used to play for him are just what we need. Don't get me wrong. I respect him. But this influx of old mariners is just setting us back.

Spielman · 11-23-2003, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CardinalMan
Nice Spielman, thanks for your input. What are you arguing about? How the Cardinals wish to organize their finances is their business, how they wish to label their expenditures is also their business.

Cardinals owners haven't been crying about losing money at all, not sure why you think they are trying to hide their financial success. Fact is St.Louis is a small to medium sized market with a payroll for a much larger market and you never hear the owners whine about money, never.

Seems like you're awfully pissed off for no reason at all.

Gotta agree with Skip, it's a nothing deal...

http://www.ilikecoconuts.com/arguing.jpg

Sounds like somebody hasn't been paying attention throughout the whole stadium issue.

-Spielman

Ervinmagicsmall · 11-23-2003, 08:21 AM

Where has it been said that they are going to give Jocketty an extra 7 million? I read the Post Dispatch online and a couple of Cardinal message boards and haven't seen that anywhere. The only thing I've seen mentioned is they may use the remaining 1.5 million on Dejean or towards a starter. I think Jocketty's budget is still the same.

Skipaway · 11-23-2003, 09:37 AM

Moving Pujols to 1B, and that 1.5mil might just worth a LF that hit like Tino Martinez.

Chief Wahoo · 11-23-2003, 12:43 PM

From what I have read and heard it was worth it to the Cardinals to pay 7 million dollars just to get rid of Tino's presence in the clubhouse. From about the last month of last season there have been reports that Tino was a cancer to the team moral. I know it sounds odd coming from a guy who won the rings he did with the Yanks but thats what I've heard.

sporr · 11-23-2003, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tarin
Al Martin
Jose Canseco
Greg Vaughn
Paul Sorrento
Wade Boggs
Fred McGriff
Tino Martinez
Dwight Gooden

Yes, I'm going back a couple of years. But its a historical pattern. We finally have young players who can develop with playing time, so we go out and get a guy not worth getting.

I'm pretty freaking tired of the Front office thinking we can bribe fans to come by picking up guys who are from Tampa once upon a time. If we get a player who lived in Tampa and he sucks compared to what we could have had from somewhere else, then it just makes the fans resent it more. Most of the Tampa fans i've talked to are unhappy about this deal as am I.

Rust is a promising pitcher and we all have the feeling that the player to be named later will be another one. We should have just payed travis lee what he wanted, but Pinella is convinced that the players that used to play for him are just what we need. Don't get me wrong. I respect him. But this influx of old mariners is just setting us back.

Thanks

Those were the guys I was thinking about, I just hadn't gotten back to this thread yet.

JerseyPride · 11-23-2003, 04:32 PM

Speaking of Wade Boggs, where did he spend most of his years?

Tarin · 11-23-2003, 05:25 PM

I'm not sure if thats a joke question?

11-21-2003, 04:17 PM	#3
Karros270 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,392	St Louis didn't need him anymore and this way at least they get a prospect for him instead of having him ride the bench. It's a good thing Mark McGuire retired when he did so St Louis could free up the money to sign Tino. The Yankee's definitely made a good decision to let him go when they did. __________________ now everybody's praying...don't prey on me

11-21-2003, 04:30 PM	#4
Rizon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: SF Area, California Total Posts: 531,691 Posts: 2,370	I thought Tino retired like 4 years ago. __________________ JML MILKSHAKES

11-21-2003, 06:02 PM	#6
SoxWin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Blissful ignorance Posts: 3,315	Another???? Who the heck are the rest of them? __________________ It's called partying. When you do a lot of it, you're bound to be places where the police show up. I smoke a lot of pot and drink a lot of beer. I also graduated Suma Cum Laude. ****ing sue me. - Luis Rivera

11-22-2003, 12:09 PM	#11
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	It's somewhat a nothing for nothing trade. St. Louis saved 1.5mil, and Tampa Bay got a 1.5mil below average first baseman. __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

11-23-2003, 09:37 AM	#16
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	Moving Pujols to 1B, and that 1.5mil might just worth a LF that hit like Tino Martinez. __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

11-21-2003, 05:42 PM	#5
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	Excellent, another over-the-hill veteran for Tampa Bay.

11-21-2003, 07:43 PM	#7
Spielman All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,668	Stupid move by the Cards. CardinalMan suggested in another aborted thread that was supposed to be a reply to this one that the Cardinal owners are intending to eat Tino's salary as a bad investment, and not count it towards the player budget that Walt Jocketty has to work with. If true, all that means is that Jocketty's budget doesn't mean a damn thing. They're still spending the money, no matter how they choose to spin it, and the money's going down a hole now. Martinez wasn't worth the money they paid him. He wasn't a very good hitter for a first baseman. But sadly, he'll probably still be better than whoever they wind up putting into left field. LaRussa's comments: "One of the things we are trying to do is improve our table-setters at the top of the lineup. Because first base is a position primarily reserved for run-producers, we feel that we have a better chance of finding a leadoff hitter to play the outfield rather than first base." So, despite the fact that Pujols is a perfectly acceptible left fielder with a good arm, they'll send him to first base because he's a run producer, and neglect the fact that it's easier to find a decent hitter who can play first base than it is to find a decent hitter who can play the outfield. Cardinals got worse because of this trade... not so much because of the trade, but because of the stupid way they're going to try to fill the hole which results. -Spielman

11-21-2003, 09:07 PM	#8
CardinalMan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 190	The Cards owners are, if you will, giving Jocketty a mulligan on this one. Pujols is an average at best left fielder with a bad right elbow. He is an above average first baseman. Why not move him? Outfielders that hit like Tino are a dime a dozen, his bat can easily be replaced and a little speed added taboot. The money will be put into pitching, great offense and a patchwork pitching staff doesn't work.

11-21-2003, 11:13 PM	#9
cshigh All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ludlow, KY Posts: 508	I like it. D-rays get a decent first baseman to play in front of his home crowd. Tino is from Tampa. He won't be an All-Star, but should fill in a gap.

11-22-2003, 12:21 PM	#12
CardinalMan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 190	Nice Spielman, thanks for your input. What are you arguing about? How the Cardinals wish to organize their finances is their business, how they wish to label their expenditures is also their business. Cardinals owners haven't been crying about losing money at all, not sure why you think they are trying to hide their financial success. Fact is St.Louis is a small to medium sized market with a payroll for a much larger market and you never hear the owners whine about money, never. Seems like you're awfully pissed off for no reason at all. Gotta agree with Skip, it's a nothing deal... http://www.ilikecoconuts.com/arguing.jpg

11-23-2003, 08:21 AM	#15
Ervinmagicsmall Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Illinoiz Posts: 67	Where has it been said that they are going to give Jocketty an extra 7 million? I read the Post Dispatch online and a couple of Cardinal message boards and haven't seen that anywhere. The only thing I've seen mentioned is they may use the remaining 1.5 million on Dejean or towards a starter. I think Jocketty's budget is still the same.

11-23-2003, 12:43 PM	#17
Chief Wahoo Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Moro, IL Posts: 346	From what I have read and heard it was worth it to the Cardinals to pay 7 million dollars just to get rid of Tino's presence in the clubhouse. From about the last month of last season there have been reports that Tino was a cancer to the team moral. I know it sounds odd coming from a guy who won the rings he did with the Yanks but thats what I've heard. __________________ Chief Wahoo

11-23-2003, 04:32 PM	#19
JerseyPride All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dirtay Jerzey Posts: 951	Speaking of Wade Boggs, where did he spend most of his years? __________________ "I guess you could call the Yanks my daddys." -Pedro Martinez

11-23-2003, 05:25 PM	#20
Tarin Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: J-Ville Posts: 325	I'm not sure if thats a joke question? __________________ T