tired of waiting

Brett Favre · 05-31-2003, 11:44 AM

just as it says "tired of waiting"

Jim Trunzo · 06-01-2003, 06:07 AM

I don't blame you; I'm tired of waiting too. The transition process and the desire to make this the ultimate game - with no bugs - is taking longer than we thought. In addition, the release of the boxing quiz game did, in 20-20 hindsight, add a month to the process. There is really nothing that we can say other than we're sorry it's taking so long and we believe that (1) the release is in clear sight; and (2) it will prove to have been worth the wait. Our apologies.

Buddy Whatshisname · 06-01-2003, 09:04 AM

Jim, can't you toss us a few morsels? Have they started on the graphics yet? Is there any chance of a screenshot some time soon? Should we write off any thoughts of a summer release? Are they keeping you in the dark too?

Buddy

PittPanther · 06-01-2003, 09:19 AM

Darn quiz.

June 1st, no bones thrown, 6 months behind target.

If time does, in fact, equal money then this is a trainwreck.

sabotai · 06-01-2003, 01:16 PM

Would you rather have the game be released now and have a release similar to TDCB (which was on par with the release of FBPro 99)?

Brett Favre · 06-01-2003, 01:25 PM

nope but i still hate waiting.im just impatient,when it comes to gaming.i just posted that because i figured it was on the minds of everyone else.i would rather play i solid complete game and i hate seeing "coming soon" on the official website:soon is now to me,hehehehehe.thanks for the reply jim and yes im still waiting impatiently along with everyone else

PittPanther · 06-01-2003, 01:41 PM

TDCB did, however you would like to cut it, evolve into quite a decent text based sim of college basketball. I personally invested countless hours in the game, and hope for a second version. Sure it was patched countless time, but the support was second to none.

OK, back to the topic at hand. Let us look at this way: A few months ago we were told that that the "role-play" (read fighter maturation akin to OOTP5 player careers) aspect would be scrapped for a quicker release date for the sim. It was stated that it would be out before the summer, yet still no game in sight. And summer is coming in very soon. Now I know this all sounds fine and dandy, and in fact could be construed as being a statement right out of the instant-gratification club members handbook, but the point remains unchanged:

You really can't blame people for wanting it to be released, as it is the only game in town. If there was something else, I would purchase it, believe me. But there is nothing, other than the board game, that can compare.

So, we sit here and suck on the news that the developers see a release date in sight and that it will be worth the wait in the end. At times I would rather suck on a lemon. It's just as sour.

On a more positive note, how many of you guys are psyched about this upcoming Saturday Night? I can't wait myself!

mking55 · 06-01-2003, 02:01 PM

I have worked in program design and development for more years than I care to remember so I believe I know of what I am speaking.

This is a case of 1 of 2 things.

Case One:
Someone is lying to someone. Judging from the posts from the Trunzo's, I would guess that they are not lying and are just forwarding information as they receive it. If they are not liar's, it is possible that someone is lying to them.

Case Two:
If someone is not lying, then someone is incompetent. Part of producing software is providing semi-accurate estimates for your customers and potential customers. I don't think anyone ever expects a project to be done on time (but it is possible), but this is one of the worst examples of delivering timelines to the public that I have ever seen.

As an anxious customer this scenario concerns me. If your programming staff cannot estimate their timelines with any degree of reliability, can they program with any degree of reliability?

This is nothing to do with "do you want a buggy game released now". No one does. It has come down to a question of honesty and competence.

It is obvious to me that the time is not being put into this project that the public was led to believe would be. There is nothing that can now be done about it.

However, as a member of the purchasing public who supports efforts like this (I bought the college basketball game and I don't even follow it), I am offended by the attitude of .400 studios that conveys a lack of forthrightness.

The question has become, do you people know what your doing?

Scott Vibert · 06-01-2003, 03:50 PM

Why don't we wait for summer to come before we label the programmers incompetent and claim that they aren't putting in the effort needed? (According to my calendar summer doesn't start until June 20, and runs until September 20 or so (I forget the exact dates))

The game is scheduled for a summer release and should it change we'll let you know, as soon as we know. I can certainly understand your frustration and desire for the game, we've all been there before; but I can assure you the game is being worked on full steam (there are 4 people currently tasked on this project) and we are still anticipating a summer release.

This isn't the only job of the people on the team, .400 Studios doesn't pay anyone a salary for x hours of work, which means that most team members have at least one other job; and the development team of Title Bout is not different. The fact is sometimes issues crop up and they take longer than anticipated to mitigate. That said we are still anticipating a summer release.

Andreas Raht · 06-01-2003, 04:04 PM

Quote:

If your programming staff cannot estimate their timelines with any degree of reliability, can they program with any degree of reliability?

Well, the programming staff is Markus and me. Markus has demonstrated his abilities with OOTP, and I've been doing software development since 1989, most of the time for nuclear power plant industries. They are all still up and running and pretty happy with my work

OK, we made one big mistake: Too many jobs, thus too much imponderableness, and then we promised to have TB ready in a given time. I would be glad if we had not given any release date to the public. Please accept my apologies! Well, now we try to have it ready by summer. But we will not release it 1) before it's done and 2) before it's *well* done. Let's hope that nothing happens which stops the progress. I promise, we do what we can, but this is not a company where when one guy gets ill or something, another one is there to go on with his work immediately... Unfortunately! But we're working on it.

Andreas Raht · 06-01-2003, 04:11 PM

Just an update: This week we will have screenshots on the Title Bout website!

vulcan · 06-01-2003, 05:23 PM

I for one do not care how long it takes. I am a sim fan and if that means it takes longer to create a stable & working game then....so be it. Sure updates need to be done more but I can wait a few more months.

mking55 · 06-01-2003, 06:00 PM

So, what I'm reading as the basic reason for this not being done is that this is no one's full time job to work on this. This is a part-time job for a couple of people.

I am also reading that it is a mistake in a business plan to make a plan for delivery and release. No one should expect anything and when it arrives, it arrives.

So I asking in my annoying way, is it part of your 'plan' to make it seem like a bunch of people who have no idea how to run a business are running the business? Is it the company line to say that you shouldn't release information to the public because no one knows just exactly what you can commit to?

My comments may seem a bit harsh, but either you are running a real grown-up business, or you are pretending to. Your excuses of 'not a full-time job' are exceptionally lame. When I used to do programming jobs on the side I would still be held accountable to the timelines I gave my customers.

If you want to stick to your stance that 'we shouldn't announce anything', then do it. Don't announce you have a boxing game, football game, or whatever. Don't announce you are working on a project. Just wait until you have finished product and open the store. If you want to create 'buzz' then do it as professionals who can judge the work to be done and the resources required.

You are trying to do it both ways, and it is unfair and misleading.

JeffR · 06-01-2003, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mking55
My comments may seem a bit harsh, but either you are running a real grown-up business, or you are pretending to. Your excuses of 'not a full-time job' are exceptionally lame.

They're not excuses; they're the reality of this product. It's not going to outsell OOTP. Nothing lame at all about putting more manpower on products that bring in more money and less on ones with more limited prospects. That's just a logical business decision. If you know as much about project management as you claim to, I'd hope you have a basic grasp of how to properly allocate scarce resources.

Quote:

When I used to do programming jobs on the side I would still be held accountable to the timelines I gave my customers.

Not a valid comparison. Presumably your customers needed to plan around the completion of the project. This is a piece of entertainment software. If anybody's life is revolving around when TBCB comes out, I pity them.

Quote:

Just wait until you have finished product and open the store. If you want to create 'buzz' then do it as professionals who can judge the work to be done and the resources required.

You are trying to do it both ways, and it is unfair and misleading.

And you seem to be completely out of touch with reality when it comes to marketing games. This industry runs on hype, and the biggest companies in it regularly miss planned release dates, sometimes by years. But at least .400, since it doesn't work through traditional distribution channels, doesn't have to answer to distributor and retailer pressure to get the game out, regardless of the state it's in.

The big mistake, from a customer-relations standpoint, was estimating a release date in the first place. Unfortunately, they're continuing to do that by making vague estimates like "this summer"...guys, just say it's done when it's done. The Trunzos' reputation took a hit with the mess that the last game was released as; rushing this one out because people are getting antsy would be a huge mistake. .400 is in much the same boat after the TDCB launch problems. If the game is released in a largely bug-free state, nobody's going to remember how long it took.

wildhawke11 · 06-01-2003, 08:32 PM

FRUSTRATION
Sorry to say this but 400S must take full blame for this.

First of all we were told it was going to be a Boxing and Role Play Game. We were encouraged time and time again to ask what else we wanted in the game. I did warn people at the time that if we kept this up the game would never see the light of day.

Then a silly bloody Boxing Quiz game was released BIG DEAL no one even speaks about it any more, more delay.
FRUSTRATION.
Next only half the game promised we were told was going to be made. NO ROLE PLAY
MORE FRUSTRATION
Even now new people going to the official web site will read and still think a Boxing and Role Play Game is being made. If they cant be bothered to change that. That alone does not enhance the Company in my eyes.

If this was a new Company i could understand basic mistakes being made but not from a Company who has being in business for some time.

Having got that lot of my chest ( so to speak ) the main thing is can and will 400S learn from mistakes made and move on ?

Jim Trunzo · 06-01-2003, 09:43 PM

Well, I'm glad you have all had your say. I am not going to be drawn into a debate because no matter how I try to explain things or how I try to rationalize them, it would sound like excuses or a plea for pity. I don't want to make any more excuses nor do I need anyone's pity.

All I'll say is that .400 Software Studios would be the last place to put the blame. I pushed for the boxing quiz game because we thought we could do it quickly and I badly needed the money we thought it would generate. Well, it wasn't done quickly and it didn't generate them income we had hoped, in spite of it being an incredible product. So I am as much to blame, if not more so, than anyone.

As mentioned, screen shots are coming this week. The research for all the current fighters and hundreds of new archive fighters is done. That is a very time-consumming process and it's done. Now I can make the data files and finish the commentary (80% done already).

The role-playing segment is mind-boggling in scope. My brother and I have always done straight sims. After meeting with the people from .400 Software Studios and seeing what they did from a role-playing end, we were inspired to shoot for more. As we began to work on the design, it became obvious that there was nothing simple about the undertaking. We have some outstanding concepts, some ground-breaking modules . . . but they were taking a huge amount of time from the sim. That's when WE requested to be relieved of the role-playing elements for the time-being so that we could get the sim done.

I guess that there is one thing that I want to say: do you think that this doesn't disappoint us? Do you think this doesn't hurt our pride? Do you think we really want to see it drag on? It's work, not play. If you are upset, believe me, no more than we are.

I hope a few months from now, people - even grudgingly - that the wait was worth it.

Thank you to those who have continued to support our efforts; and thank you to those who care enough to be upset. In a way, that's a compliment as well.

Jim Trunzo

sabotai · 06-01-2003, 09:49 PM

"Then a silly bloody Boxing Quiz game was released BIG DEAL no one even speaks about it any more, more delay."

FWIW, I just bought it today. I like it.

"Next only half the game promised we were told was going to be made. NO ROLE PLAY "

We have no way of knowing if the role play part was "half" the game...

"Even now new people going to the official web site will read and still think a Boxing and Role Play Game is being made."

You have a point here.

mking, id has always announced games and said it'll be released "when it's done." I guess they don't know how to run a real grown-up business either.

wildhawke11 · 06-01-2003, 10:15 PM

Its not a question of if you like the Quiz Game or not really.
The point is, all here were thinking that The Boxing Game was being worked on. Then out of the blue comes a Quiz Game.
Are you surprised that people were a little annoyed?

As for the Role Play part being 50% of the Game if you care to read again what Jim has just said its more likely nearer 65%. I myself thought it would be the longer and harder part. I just used 50% 50% as random numbers.

Thank you Jim for coming here once again deep down i know how frustrating again it must be for you and the team.

Well, what's past is past and there is nothing anyone can do now except just wait.
If money is needed to tide the Company over i for one am quite prepared to pre order the Boxing Game and show faith in Jim.
Danny

Mark42661 · 06-01-2003, 10:41 PM

I'd just like to add to the discussion by saying that in appreciation for the years of enjoyment that the Trunzo's boxing games/sims have brought to me...I'm willing to wait as long as it takes for the game to be released and will buy it without a thought.

Also, from personal experience, I know that Jim Trunzo is a class act all the way and I'll buy anything associated with the Trunzo name in the future.

This may sound fanboy-ish to some, but for me it is simple logic.

mking55 · 06-01-2003, 10:44 PM

I am not upset that the game isn't done. I will purchase it when done.

I do find it annoying when crappy excuses are put forth.

If a company with a track record announces that their product will be completed when completed, that is acceptable because they have a body of work behind them.

When a company without a proven track record announces that something will be done and then makes a mess of it, it is bad business.

When many of the unwashed masses congregate to say that it's ok with them that few are willing to take responsibility or treat it like a full-time job, then the company is encouraged to keep up with the same practices.

What's wrong with people saying, you screwed up so take some responsibility and move forward?

I accept Mr. Trunzo's response. He seems willing to take responsibility and he is not a software designer. It seems most others want to either make excuses or make excuses for others.

This is so typical of the world at large. "It's not my fault". There is no shame in making a mistake and learning from it.

I really think if you folks are serious about creating a business then you need to plan a little more carefully and be upfront with your customer and potential customer base. Do you think that only the odd person with a big mouth like me feels this way? I think you're making a mistake if you do.

I am sure that every grumble you hear represents many more grumbles from those who do not post their thoughts.

I write because I care about the success of this company and others like them. I enjoy sports sims. I want to encourage them and do that by purchasing them. I just fear that by screwing things up, you alienate your audience, lose potential customers, and discourage efforts by others.

05-31-2003, 11:44 AM	#1
Brett Favre Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 11	tired of waiting just as it says "tired of waiting" __________________ "I wanna become a household name in peoples' households"Takeo Spikes

06-01-2003, 09:19 AM	#4
PittPanther All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 1,235	Darn quiz. June 1st, no bones thrown, 6 months behind target. If time does, in fact, equal money then this is a trainwreck. __________________ Commitment Teamwork Pride Hail to Pitt!

06-01-2003, 01:25 PM	#6
Brett Favre Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 11	nope but i still hate waiting.im just impatient,when it comes to gaming.i just posted that because i figured it was on the minds of everyone else.i would rather play i solid complete game and i hate seeing "coming soon" on the official website:soon is now to me,hehehehehe.thanks for the reply jim and yes im still waiting impatiently along with everyone else __________________ "I wanna become a household name in peoples' households"Takeo Spikes

06-01-2003, 01:41 PM	#7
PittPanther All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 1,235	TDCB did, however you would like to cut it, evolve into quite a decent text based sim of college basketball. I personally invested countless hours in the game, and hope for a second version. Sure it was patched countless time, but the support was second to none. OK, back to the topic at hand. Let us look at this way: A few months ago we were told that that the "role-play" (read fighter maturation akin to OOTP5 player careers) aspect would be scrapped for a quicker release date for the sim. It was stated that it would be out before the summer, yet still no game in sight. And summer is coming in very soon. Now I know this all sounds fine and dandy, and in fact could be construed as being a statement right out of the instant-gratification club members handbook, but the point remains unchanged: You really can't blame people for wanting it to be released, as it is the only game in town. If there was something else, I would purchase it, believe me. But there is nothing, other than the board game, that can compare. So, we sit here and suck on the news that the developers see a release date in sight and that it will be worth the wait in the end. At times I would rather suck on a lemon. It's just as sour. On a more positive note, how many of you guys are psyched about this upcoming Saturday Night? I can't wait myself! __________________ Commitment Teamwork Pride Hail to Pitt!

06-01-2003, 04:11 PM	#11
Andreas Raht Administrator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hollern/Stade/Germany Posts: 8,992	Just an update: This week we will have screenshots on the Title Bout website! __________________ Andreas Raht andreas@ootpdevelopments.com Out of the Park Developments

06-01-2003, 06:07 AM	#2
Jim Trunzo OOTP Developments Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Leechburg, PA Posts: 739	I don't blame you; I'm tired of waiting too. The transition process and the desire to make this the ultimate game - with no bugs - is taking longer than we thought. In addition, the release of the boxing quiz game did, in 20-20 hindsight, add a month to the process. There is really nothing that we can say other than we're sorry it's taking so long and we believe that (1) the release is in clear sight; and (2) it will prove to have been worth the wait. Our apologies.

06-01-2003, 09:04 AM	#3
Buddy Whatshisname Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 115	Jim, can't you toss us a few morsels? Have they started on the graphics yet? Is there any chance of a screenshot some time soon? Should we write off any thoughts of a summer release? Are they keeping you in the dark too? Buddy

06-01-2003, 01:16 PM	#5
sabotai All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: South Jersey Posts: 841	Would you rather have the game be released now and have a release similar to TDCB (which was on par with the release of FBPro 99)?

06-01-2003, 02:01 PM	#8
mking55 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boading, China Posts: 1,249	I have worked in program design and development for more years than I care to remember so I believe I know of what I am speaking. This is a case of 1 of 2 things. Case One: Someone is lying to someone. Judging from the posts from the Trunzo's, I would guess that they are not lying and are just forwarding information as they receive it. If they are not liar's, it is possible that someone is lying to them. Case Two: If someone is not lying, then someone is incompetent. Part of producing software is providing semi-accurate estimates for your customers and potential customers. I don't think anyone ever expects a project to be done on time (but it is possible), but this is one of the worst examples of delivering timelines to the public that I have ever seen. As an anxious customer this scenario concerns me. If your programming staff cannot estimate their timelines with any degree of reliability, can they program with any degree of reliability? This is nothing to do with "do you want a buggy game released now". No one does. It has come down to a question of honesty and competence. It is obvious to me that the time is not being put into this project that the public was led to believe would be. There is nothing that can now be done about it. However, as a member of the purchasing public who supports efforts like this (I bought the college basketball game and I don't even follow it), I am offended by the attitude of .400 studios that conveys a lack of forthrightness. The question has become, do you people know what your doing?

06-01-2003, 03:50 PM	#9
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,249	Why don't we wait for summer to come before we label the programmers incompetent and claim that they aren't putting in the effort needed? (According to my calendar summer doesn't start until June 20, and runs until September 20 or so (I forget the exact dates)) The game is scheduled for a summer release and should it change we'll let you know, as soon as we know. I can certainly understand your frustration and desire for the game, we've all been there before; but I can assure you the game is being worked on full steam (there are 4 people currently tasked on this project) and we are still anticipating a summer release. This isn't the only job of the people on the team, .400 Studios doesn't pay anyone a salary for x hours of work, which means that most team members have at least one other job; and the development team of Title Bout is not different. The fact is sometimes issues crop up and they take longer than anticipated to mitigate. That said we are still anticipating a summer release.

06-01-2003, 05:23 PM	#12
vulcan Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wisconsin-United States of America Posts: 48	I for one do not care how long it takes. I am a sim fan and if that means it takes longer to create a stable & working game then....so be it. Sure updates need to be done more but I can wait a few more months.

06-01-2003, 06:00 PM	#13
mking55 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boading, China Posts: 1,249	So, what I'm reading as the basic reason for this not being done is that this is no one's full time job to work on this. This is a part-time job for a couple of people. I am also reading that it is a mistake in a business plan to make a plan for delivery and release. No one should expect anything and when it arrives, it arrives. So I asking in my annoying way, is it part of your 'plan' to make it seem like a bunch of people who have no idea how to run a business are running the business? Is it the company line to say that you shouldn't release information to the public because no one knows just exactly what you can commit to? My comments may seem a bit harsh, but either you are running a real grown-up business, or you are pretending to. Your excuses of 'not a full-time job' are exceptionally lame. When I used to do programming jobs on the side I would still be held accountable to the timelines I gave my customers. If you want to stick to your stance that 'we shouldn't announce anything', then do it. Don't announce you have a boxing game, football game, or whatever. Don't announce you are working on a project. Just wait until you have finished product and open the store. If you want to create 'buzz' then do it as professionals who can judge the work to be done and the resources required. You are trying to do it both ways, and it is unfair and misleading.

06-01-2003, 08:32 PM	#15
wildhawke11 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: united kingdom Posts: 1,952	Frustration FRUSTRATION Sorry to say this but 400S must take full blame for this. First of all we were told it was going to be a Boxing and Role Play Game. We were encouraged time and time again to ask what else we wanted in the game. I did warn people at the time that if we kept this up the game would never see the light of day. Then a silly bloody Boxing Quiz game was released BIG DEAL no one even speaks about it any more, more delay. FRUSTRATION. Next only half the game promised we were told was going to be made. NO ROLE PLAY MORE FRUSTRATION Even now new people going to the official web site will read and still think a Boxing and Role Play Game is being made. If they cant be bothered to change that. That alone does not enhance the Company in my eyes. If this was a new Company i could understand basic mistakes being made but not from a Company who has being in business for some time. Having got that lot of my chest ( so to speak ) the main thing is can and will 400S learn from mistakes made and move on ?

06-01-2003, 09:43 PM	#16
Jim Trunzo OOTP Developments Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Leechburg, PA Posts: 739	Well, I'm glad you have all had your say. I am not going to be drawn into a debate because no matter how I try to explain things or how I try to rationalize them, it would sound like excuses or a plea for pity. I don't want to make any more excuses nor do I need anyone's pity. All I'll say is that .400 Software Studios would be the last place to put the blame. I pushed for the boxing quiz game because we thought we could do it quickly and I badly needed the money we thought it would generate. Well, it wasn't done quickly and it didn't generate them income we had hoped, in spite of it being an incredible product. So I am as much to blame, if not more so, than anyone. As mentioned, screen shots are coming this week. The research for all the current fighters and hundreds of new archive fighters is done. That is a very time-consumming process and it's done. Now I can make the data files and finish the commentary (80% done already). The role-playing segment is mind-boggling in scope. My brother and I have always done straight sims. After meeting with the people from .400 Software Studios and seeing what they did from a role-playing end, we were inspired to shoot for more. As we began to work on the design, it became obvious that there was nothing simple about the undertaking. We have some outstanding concepts, some ground-breaking modules . . . but they were taking a huge amount of time from the sim. That's when WE requested to be relieved of the role-playing elements for the time-being so that we could get the sim done. I guess that there is one thing that I want to say: do you think that this doesn't disappoint us? Do you think this doesn't hurt our pride? Do you think we really want to see it drag on? It's work, not play. If you are upset, believe me, no more than we are. I hope a few months from now, people - even grudgingly - that the wait was worth it. Thank you to those who have continued to support our efforts; and thank you to those who care enough to be upset. In a way, that's a compliment as well. Jim Trunzo

06-01-2003, 09:49 PM	#17
sabotai All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: South Jersey Posts: 841	"Then a silly bloody Boxing Quiz game was released BIG DEAL no one even speaks about it any more, more delay." FWIW, I just bought it today. I like it. "Next only half the game promised we were told was going to be made. NO ROLE PLAY " We have no way of knowing if the role play part was "half" the game... "Even now new people going to the official web site will read and still think a Boxing and Role Play Game is being made." You have a point here. mking, id has always announced games and said it'll be released "when it's done." I guess they don't know how to run a real grown-up business either.

06-01-2003, 10:15 PM	#18
wildhawke11 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: united kingdom Posts: 1,952	Sabotai and Jim Its not a question of if you like the Quiz Game or not really. The point is, all here were thinking that The Boxing Game was being worked on. Then out of the blue comes a Quiz Game. Are you surprised that people were a little annoyed? As for the Role Play part being 50% of the Game if you care to read again what Jim has just said its more likely nearer 65%. I myself thought it would be the longer and harder part. I just used 50% 50% as random numbers. Thank you Jim for coming here once again deep down i know how frustrating again it must be for you and the team. Well, what's past is past and there is nothing anyone can do now except just wait. If money is needed to tide the Company over i for one am quite prepared to pre order the Boxing Game and show faith in Jim. Danny

06-01-2003, 10:41 PM	#19
Mark42661 All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Home of the Kansas City Chiefs! Posts: 1,080	I'd just like to add to the discussion by saying that in appreciation for the years of enjoyment that the Trunzo's boxing games/sims have brought to me...I'm willing to wait as long as it takes for the game to be released and will buy it without a thought. Also, from personal experience, I know that Jim Trunzo is a class act all the way and I'll buy anything associated with the Trunzo name in the future. This may sound fanboy-ish to some, but for me it is simple logic. __________________ A Man of the World Site dedicated to Sailor Tom Sharkey

06-01-2003, 10:44 PM	#20
mking55 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boading, China Posts: 1,249	I am not upset that the game isn't done. I will purchase it when done. I do find it annoying when crappy excuses are put forth. If a company with a track record announces that their product will be completed when completed, that is acceptable because they have a body of work behind them. When a company without a proven track record announces that something will be done and then makes a mess of it, it is bad business. When many of the unwashed masses congregate to say that it's ok with them that few are willing to take responsibility or treat it like a full-time job, then the company is encouraged to keep up with the same practices. What's wrong with people saying, you screwed up so take some responsibility and move forward? I accept Mr. Trunzo's response. He seems willing to take responsibility and he is not a software designer. It seems most others want to either make excuses or make excuses for others. This is so typical of the world at large. "It's not my fault". There is no shame in making a mistake and learning from it. I really think if you folks are serious about creating a business then you need to plan a little more carefully and be upfront with your customer and potential customer base. Do you think that only the odd person with a big mouth like me feels this way? I think you're making a mistake if you do. I am sure that every grumble you hear represents many more grumbles from those who do not post their thoughts. I write because I care about the success of this company and others like them. I enjoy sports sims. I want to encourage them and do that by purchasing them. I just fear that by screwing things up, you alienate your audience, lose potential customers, and discourage efforts by others.