Importance of Defensive Range

Pubbahuska · 08-07-2003, 10:41 AM

I know there isn't a way to quantify the defensive range of a player in this game, and I know that the text ' a player with better range may have made that play' occurs, which is an indicator, but what is your best analysis of what an E in CF can do compared to an A. I try to keep solid up the middle (2B, SS, CF) but there doesn't seem to be a way to see how bad a rock in CF really is. Sometimes, a double is going to be a double even if you have Torii Hunter. In this game, you can't tell. When I see 'a player with better range may have made that play' it can be a player with an E, D, C, range etc. Sometimes a B can't get to what an A could get to right? So, that text doesn't seem to assist other than telling you what you already know - you don't have an A at that position! No kidding Sherlock.

ctorg · 08-07-2003, 11:41 AM

I don't know if it has been done, but you'd have to set up a complex environment to get numerical data. You'd have to have teams that were exactly the same except for fielding ranges of players, and then there are a lot of combos to test.

Kelric · 08-07-2003, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ctorg
I don't know if it has been done, but you'd have to set up a complex environment to get numerical data. You'd have to have teams that were exactly the same except for fielding ranges of players, and then there are a lot of combos to test.

It has been done, there was a test run for OOTP4 by somebody. If you run some searches you should be able to find it, or hopefully someone will link to it here.

At shortstop defensive range is most important with I believe a 10 game win difference between an E and an A, though it may be slightly more or slightly less, I just don't remember. First base range is the least important, with the E rated first baseman's team actually winning more games than the A rated first baseman's team in that study.

dumrox · 08-07-2003, 01:35 PM

I think this thread is what Kleric was referring to:
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ighlight=Study

Kelric · 08-07-2003, 01:51 PM

Yepp. So 10.5 wins between an E and A rated shortstop. I was close enough.

Pubbahuska · 08-07-2003, 03:08 PM

Thanks for posting that link. I'm surprised that CF and C are that 'insignificant' given typical ball games. Catchers have a large impact with wild pitches, passed balls, etc. in addition to the typical fielding. CFs typically have the first rights to CF and the gaps. Regardless, it is a good study and a data reference point. Nothing is perfect but this appears to be within the typical standard deviation.

LJR · 08-07-2003, 06:27 PM

do you know if the study incorporates arm strength into the equation? particularly catchers....i really don't feel a need to have a catcher with great range, but i prefer one with an arm...right now i have a guy who is an E behind the plate with an E throwing arm and only throws out 16.5% of runners...that allows more runs to be scored than my backup catcher who throws out 55% of runners attempting to steal on him....of course, the poor thrower is a top offensive catcher and the guy who has an arm is at best a .250 hitter....just curious....

Kelric · 08-07-2003, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LJR
do you know if the study incorporates arm strength into the equation? particularly catchers....i really don't feel a need to have a catcher with great range, but i prefer one with an arm...right now i have a guy who is an E behind the plate with an E throwing arm and only throws out 16.5% of runners...that allows more runs to be scored than my backup catcher who throws out 55% of runners attempting to steal on him....of course, the poor thrower is a top offensive catcher and the guy who has an arm is at best a .250 hitter....just curious....

The study appears to only take into affect range and offense. Arms aren't taken into consideration. Of course good arms are always a plus. Personally, I never have a catcher with less than a C arm on my roster if I can help it. An E is immediately traded, I can handle a D if my regular starter/backup is injured and I need to call someone up short term.

08-07-2003, 10:41 AM	#1
Pubbahuska Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Prince Frederick, MD Posts: 43	Importance of Defensive Range I know there isn't a way to quantify the defensive range of a player in this game, and I know that the text ' a player with better range may have made that play' occurs, which is an indicator, but what is your best analysis of what an E in CF can do compared to an A. I try to keep solid up the middle (2B, SS, CF) but there doesn't seem to be a way to see how bad a rock in CF really is. Sometimes, a double is going to be a double even if you have Torii Hunter. In this game, you can't tell. When I see 'a player with better range may have made that play' it can be a player with an E, D, C, range etc. Sometimes a B can't get to what an A could get to right? So, that text doesn't seem to assist other than telling you what you already know - you don't have an A at that position! No kidding Sherlock.

08-07-2003, 11:41 AM	#2
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I don't know if it has been done, but you'd have to set up a complex environment to get numerical data. You'd have to have teams that were exactly the same except for fielding ranges of players, and then there are a lot of combos to test. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

08-07-2003, 01:35 PM	#4
dumrox Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 144	I think this thread is what Kleric was referring to: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ighlight=Study

08-07-2003, 01:51 PM	#5
Kelric Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Greater Boston Area Posts: 3,992	Yepp. So 10.5 wins between an E and A rated shortstop. I was close enough.

08-07-2003, 03:08 PM	#6
Pubbahuska Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Prince Frederick, MD Posts: 43	Thanks for posting that link. I'm surprised that CF and C are that 'insignificant' given typical ball games. Catchers have a large impact with wild pitches, passed balls, etc. in addition to the typical fielding. CFs typically have the first rights to CF and the gaps. Regardless, it is a good study and a data reference point. Nothing is perfect but this appears to be within the typical standard deviation.

08-07-2003, 06:27 PM	#7
LJR Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: May 2003 Location: CA Posts: 43	do you know if the study incorporates arm strength into the equation? particularly catchers....i really don't feel a need to have a catcher with great range, but i prefer one with an arm...right now i have a guy who is an E behind the plate with an E throwing arm and only throws out 16.5% of runners...that allows more runs to be scored than my backup catcher who throws out 55% of runners attempting to steal on him....of course, the poor thrower is a top offensive catcher and the guy who has an arm is at best a .250 hitter....just curious....