Jim or Andreas...Tournament Options?

jrmorgan56 · 06-13-2003, 02:48 PM

Now that release is a little closer, can you give any details on the tournament options? I was hoping for more options for staging tournaments...

Jim Trunzo · 06-13-2003, 04:23 PM

Well, to begin with, like the auto-scheduler, you will have the ability to input parameters and have the computer schedule all or part of the tournament. We are also exploring the ability to run a double-elimination tournament.

jrmorgan56 · 06-13-2003, 04:27 PM

I hope that you can set an option to NOT replay fights over a draw....and thanks for the quick reply.

sabotai · 06-13-2003, 05:28 PM

I also would like to see an option to not replay a fight when it is a draw, and have the next round be a bye for the other guy.

vulcan · 06-13-2003, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Trunzo
Well, to begin with, like the auto-scheduler, you will have the ability to input parameters and have the computer schedule all or part of the tournament. We are also exploring the ability to run a double-elimination tournament.

Double-elimination would be cool. I also like the idea of not having replay fights over a draw...

jrmorgan56 · 06-13-2003, 06:50 PM

I wish you could have a "round-robin" option...for example, a 16 or 32-man tournament where everyone fights everyone exactly one time, and the winner is the one with the most wins (or performance points in case of a tie).

crusadecat · 06-13-2003, 09:24 PM

yes i agree an option to not refight the draw would be great. What would just be incredible would be a one round box off option.

Jim Trunzo · 06-14-2003, 07:14 AM

There are some very solid ideas here -- as options -- and I'll talk to Andreas about implementing them for this version.

Cap · 06-14-2003, 12:57 PM

I dunno, the whole tournament idea is an iffy proposal in a sim where you're striving for realism. Realistically, I could see guys fighting 3 round bouts like in the amateurs. More than that, and you'd need to give each fighter time to heal from battle injuries. This isn't a wussy game like basketball, after all, it's boxing.

Cap

(Tongue firmly in cheek)

Jim Trunzo · 06-14-2003, 01:55 PM

I think that the "supposition" would be that it's not a standard tournament from a time perspective. Because time is a moot point in games of these types, you "assume" that the tourney if fought over a period of months or a year. It just isn't presented in a "real time" mode. With any simulation, there has to be a "willing suspension of disbelief" or it wouldn't work. Could the 1927 Yankees have beaten last year's Arizona team? Could the Packers of the '60's been competitive against the Tampa Bay Bucs?

Who knows? You can argue for ever about going across eras. The size of today's athletes make the all-time greats look like midgets by comparison; however, who's to say how those players would have developed using today's training techniques, etc.

In boxing, would the training and attention to mechanics negate the size factor in today's fighters?

I understand completely what you're saying, Cap, but while tournaments aren't for the real "purist", it's a very popular option for many others.

wildhawke11 · 06-14-2003, 08:26 PM

With any Simulation be it War Games, Football, Soccer or Boxing you have to strike a balance between realism and game play.

I hear people on here shouting for more and more realism for example in the fore coming Boxing Role-play Game.

OK lets have realism, that means the year is now 2003.
So only the current fighters should be included, and fighters like Roy Jones Jr and Lewis will only be able to have a few more fights then there out of the game. ( There quite old even now ) The chance of you finding a decent young boxer to manage and even win an area Championship, let alone a World Title Fight are very slim, to say the least. BUT THIS IS REALISM.

No Ali, Joe Louis, Sugar Ray Robinson, etc., etc. this is REALISM. unless you start back in there day.

Being a football manager or boxing manager is not fun its mostly hard work and at times very boring and very stressful, the exciting part of any sport is very small compared to the boring parts. That's why you have to strike a balance in any Simulation. I am sure Jim Trunza knows this.

The most famous football game (soccer as you in USA call it) is
Champion Manager 3 it tries to add more realism with each new release.

The truth is many people i know are now saying they prefer the early versions, because they was more playable and enjoyable. Because like i said the more realism you put into a game it becomes hard work and less fun playing it. But again this is Realism its not fun its bloody hard work being a soccer manager or football coach.

Another thought, the new Boxing Simulation or Role Play game when they come out might be in fact a little more expensive then say the football games or baseball games that 400s produce. Before anyone objects some thoughts of mine.

Boxing today is not regarded as a major sport and the market for the game is in fact going to be much smaller then say for a football or baseball game.
The problem 400s has is both games may require the same amount of time and money spent producing them, therefore to at least break even, or make it worth there while, the Boxing Games might have to be as i said a little dearer. I am sure the real boxing fans on here will understand where i am coming from.

NO I DONT WORK FOR 400S LOL.
Danny.

Cap · 06-14-2003, 09:27 PM

I'm all for departing from reality, Jim. I've had a few tourneys to establish champs for vacant titles myself. I guess I'm just acting pig-headed because of some of the comments from the late-comers about adding gratuitous sex and criminal behaviour to achieve "Reality". I've had a gut-ful of "reality TV". It's not any reality I know of.

I'm all for adding oodles of options, just so long as it doesn't delay the release of the pure-sim (as oposed to the next generation role-playing version).

Cap

Jim Trunzo · 06-14-2003, 10:12 PM

God - let's not ever utter that word "delay" again! No, I can promise you this: the game will be released ASAP and it will be a complete sim. Some features being discussed as of late may (and don't be alarmed - I don't mean anything major) be free downloads a few weeks, a month after release. And, of course, the role-playing element will come much later. Hopefully, by making so many things optional, the game can become as simple or complex as the individual gamer wishes to make it.

GDE · 06-15-2003, 01:58 AM

Sounds great Jim. Choices are what makes good games GREAT!

Doesn't matter if you have to patch in those choices for free in a few weeks time.

Hootowl 9 · 06-16-2003, 06:40 PM

Very well stated CAP! I as well have had my gut-full of "Reality" TV. (like it's never scripted right....sure...) TV in general just stinks. I'm very much looking forward to the SIM and totally agree with delaying the role-playing element untill it is a fully functional, bug free solid game platform. If my name was to be on the game I would not want it any other way! The fact the "Trunzo" name is affiliated with the game already put it in the "buy" column for me.
Plus they have hooked-up with .400 Software Studios who as a smaller company I feel have over-all have responded to their customers wants, needs and concerns. For me, the SIM part of the game is what "I really wanted", but I am looking forward to the role-playing aspect as well. Are some people upset with the delay of the role-play part of the game?? H*ll yes! However, I think the developers have been forthright and honest with us on the unforseen problems of a huge project for a "niche" market. I'm sure the developers are not pleased at the delay either. The fact they will not rush it to market tells me they "care" about their product and "have" learned from past mistakes! (hmm...would that happen with a large corp. ??)
As for the Trunzo brothers, my feeling is it is much more than a game and about money, (some of that too....why not!) but rather the fruition of a life long goal of a game and sport they obviously love. I'm thankful we will all reap the enjoyment of their lifes passion it seems to me. Hell,....I still play the board game and read all the old cards!

THANK YOU guys for years of enjoyment! The alternative could of been to just walk away from the problems,say who needs the hassle! I'm thinking they have the class and "moxie" not to do that. Just my 2 cents on this whole thing.

wildhawke11 · 06-17-2003, 04:55 AM

Hootowl
That was pretty well put yourself, in fact i liked it so much i even went so far as to check your profile.
Maybe Yourself, Cap Jim and i can get the old Rocking Chairs out, split open a 6 pack, spin a few yarns, reminisce how in some ways the old days were better, (note i said someways) At least you felt safe to let the children play without worrying about what they were up to,or who they were talking to.
Your old Mum could walk down the road without fear of some mugger beating the **** out of her just to get her pension. The BAD GUY never laughed at you if caught in them days.
I had to smile a while back when i spoke about the Joe Louis and Tommy Farr fight in a posting.
I think it was Sabotai who said words to this affect
"bloody hell Wildhawke - how old are you"
Cheers From UK

PS Tell you all a funny story sometime about the Great Joe Louis and how he was scared ****less by a joke played on him onetime.

06-13-2003, 02:48 PM	#1
jrmorgan56 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New York Posts: 459	Jim or Andreas...Tournament Options? Now that release is a little closer, can you give any details on the tournament options? I was hoping for more options for staging tournaments... __________________ CornerWork

06-13-2003, 04:27 PM	#3
jrmorgan56 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New York Posts: 459	I hope that you can set an option to NOT replay fights over a draw....and thanks for the quick reply. __________________ CornerWork

06-13-2003, 06:50 PM	#6
jrmorgan56 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New York Posts: 459	I wish you could have a "round-robin" option...for example, a 16 or 32-man tournament where everyone fights everyone exactly one time, and the winner is the one with the most wins (or performance points in case of a tie). __________________ CornerWork

06-14-2003, 12:57 PM	#9
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 8,024	I dunno, the whole tournament idea is an iffy proposal in a sim where you're striving for realism. Realistically, I could see guys fighting 3 round bouts like in the amateurs. More than that, and you'd need to give each fighter time to heal from battle injuries. This isn't a wussy game like basketball, after all, it's boxing. Cap (Tongue firmly in cheek) __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.." Last edited by Cap; 06-14-2003 at 09:28 PM.

06-14-2003, 08:26 PM	#11
wildhawke11 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: united kingdom Posts: 1,952	Realism in a Game and Costs With any Simulation be it War Games, Football, Soccer or Boxing you have to strike a balance between realism and game play. I hear people on here shouting for more and more realism for example in the fore coming Boxing Role-play Game. OK lets have realism, that means the year is now 2003. So only the current fighters should be included, and fighters like Roy Jones Jr and Lewis will only be able to have a few more fights then there out of the game. ( There quite old even now ) The chance of you finding a decent young boxer to manage and even win an area Championship, let alone a World Title Fight are very slim, to say the least. BUT THIS IS REALISM. No Ali, Joe Louis, Sugar Ray Robinson, etc., etc. this is REALISM. unless you start back in there day. Being a football manager or boxing manager is not fun its mostly hard work and at times very boring and very stressful, the exciting part of any sport is very small compared to the boring parts. That's why you have to strike a balance in any Simulation. I am sure Jim Trunza knows this. The most famous football game (soccer as you in USA call it) is Champion Manager 3 it tries to add more realism with each new release. The truth is many people i know are now saying they prefer the early versions, because they was more playable and enjoyable. Because like i said the more realism you put into a game it becomes hard work and less fun playing it. But again this is Realism its not fun its bloody hard work being a soccer manager or football coach. Another thought, the new Boxing Simulation or Role Play game when they come out might be in fact a little more expensive then say the football games or baseball games that 400s produce. Before anyone objects some thoughts of mine. Boxing today is not regarded as a major sport and the market for the game is in fact going to be much smaller then say for a football or baseball game. The problem 400s has is both games may require the same amount of time and money spent producing them, therefore to at least break even, or make it worth there while, the Boxing Games might have to be as i said a little dearer. I am sure the real boxing fans on here will understand where i am coming from. NO I DONT WORK FOR 400S LOL. Danny. Last edited by wildhawke11; 06-14-2003 at 11:27 PM.

06-13-2003, 04:23 PM	#2
Jim Trunzo OOTP Developments Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Leechburg, PA Posts: 739	Well, to begin with, like the auto-scheduler, you will have the ability to input parameters and have the computer schedule all or part of the tournament. We are also exploring the ability to run a double-elimination tournament.

06-13-2003, 05:28 PM	#4
sabotai All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: South Jersey Posts: 841	I also would like to see an option to not replay a fight when it is a draw, and have the next round be a bye for the other guy.

06-13-2003, 09:24 PM	#7
crusadecat All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 828	yes i agree an option to not refight the draw would be great. What would just be incredible would be a one round box off option.

06-14-2003, 07:14 AM	#8
Jim Trunzo OOTP Developments Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Leechburg, PA Posts: 739	There are some very solid ideas here -- as options -- and I'll talk to Andreas about implementing them for this version.

06-14-2003, 01:55 PM	#10
Jim Trunzo OOTP Developments Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Leechburg, PA Posts: 739	I think that the "supposition" would be that it's not a standard tournament from a time perspective. Because time is a moot point in games of these types, you "assume" that the tourney if fought over a period of months or a year. It just isn't presented in a "real time" mode. With any simulation, there has to be a "willing suspension of disbelief" or it wouldn't work. Could the 1927 Yankees have beaten last year's Arizona team? Could the Packers of the '60's been competitive against the Tampa Bay Bucs? Who knows? You can argue for ever about going across eras. The size of today's athletes make the all-time greats look like midgets by comparison; however, who's to say how those players would have developed using today's training techniques, etc. In boxing, would the training and attention to mechanics negate the size factor in today's fighters? I understand completely what you're saying, Cap, but while tournaments aren't for the real "purist", it's a very popular option for many others.

06-14-2003, 09:27 PM	#12
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 8,024	I'm all for departing from reality, Jim. I've had a few tourneys to establish champs for vacant titles myself. I guess I'm just acting pig-headed because of some of the comments from the late-comers about adding gratuitous sex and criminal behaviour to achieve "Reality". I've had a gut-ful of "reality TV". It's not any reality I know of. I'm all for adding oodles of options, just so long as it doesn't delay the release of the pure-sim (as oposed to the next generation role-playing version). Cap __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.."

06-14-2003, 10:12 PM	#13
Jim Trunzo OOTP Developments Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Leechburg, PA Posts: 739	God - let's not ever utter that word "delay" again! No, I can promise you this: the game will be released ASAP and it will be a complete sim. Some features being discussed as of late may (and don't be alarmed - I don't mean anything major) be free downloads a few weeks, a month after release. And, of course, the role-playing element will come much later. Hopefully, by making so many things optional, the game can become as simple or complex as the individual gamer wishes to make it.

06-15-2003, 01:58 AM	#14
GDE Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Nancy,KY Posts: 193	Sounds great Jim. Choices are what makes good games GREAT! Doesn't matter if you have to patch in those choices for free in a few weeks time.

06-16-2003, 06:40 PM	#15
Hootowl 9 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Genesee Depot, Wis. Posts: 209	Very well stated CAP! I as well have had my gut-full of "Reality" TV. (like it's never scripted right....sure...) TV in general just stinks. I'm very much looking forward to the SIM and totally agree with delaying the role-playing element untill it is a fully functional, bug free solid game platform. If my name was to be on the game I would not want it any other way! The fact the "Trunzo" name is affiliated with the game already put it in the "buy" column for me. Plus they have hooked-up with .400 Software Studios who as a smaller company I feel have over-all have responded to their customers wants, needs and concerns. For me, the SIM part of the game is what "I really wanted", but I am looking forward to the role-playing aspect as well. Are some people upset with the delay of the role-play part of the game?? H*ll yes! However, I think the developers have been forthright and honest with us on the unforseen problems of a huge project for a "niche" market. I'm sure the developers are not pleased at the delay either. The fact they will not rush it to market tells me they "care" about their product and "have" learned from past mistakes! (hmm...would that happen with a large corp. ??) As for the Trunzo brothers, my feeling is it is much more than a game and about money, (some of that too....why not!) but rather the fruition of a life long goal of a game and sport they obviously love. I'm thankful we will all reap the enjoyment of their lifes passion it seems to me. Hell,....I still play the board game and read all the old cards! THANK YOU guys for years of enjoyment! The alternative could of been to just walk away from the problems,say who needs the hassle! I'm thinking they have the class and "moxie" not to do that. Just my 2 cents on this whole thing.

06-17-2003, 04:55 AM	#16
wildhawke11 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: united kingdom Posts: 1,952	Well Said Hootowl Hootowl That was pretty well put yourself, in fact i liked it so much i even went so far as to check your profile. Maybe Yourself, Cap Jim and i can get the old Rocking Chairs out, split open a 6 pack, spin a few yarns, reminisce how in some ways the old days were better, (note i said someways) At least you felt safe to let the children play without worrying about what they were up to,or who they were talking to. Your old Mum could walk down the road without fear of some mugger beating the ** out of her just to get her pension. The BAD GUY never laughed at you if caught in them days. I had to smile a while back when i spoke about the Joe Louis and Tommy Farr fight in a posting. I think it was Sabotai who said words to this affect "bloody hell Wildhawke - how old are you" Cheers From UK PS Tell you all a funny story sometime about the Great Joe Louis and how he was scared *less by a joke played on him onetime. Last edited by wildhawke11; 06-17-2003 at 05:15 AM.*