How long do you stick with new hitting coach?

rink23 · 01-16-2023, 07:41 PM

I am playing the 2023 season of the St. Louis Cardinals.
Started on the day after the 2022 World Series, so all player personnel moves were my own and not based on how the offseason has played off so far.
Team is off to a 14-16 start, tied for third in the NL Central, five games behind the Brewers.
Injuries have been an issue -- Lars Nootbaar, Tyler O'Neil and Dylan Carlson are all currently on the injured list (O'Neil is likely done for the season -- but the biggest issue has been offense.
I rank last or close to last in every major category.
Like the real Cardinals, I let hitting coach Jeff Albert go after the season (thank goodness).
I hired someone named Joey DeMonte, who while only having average reputation has high ratings across the board.
It has hardly translated into on-field performance, as even Nolan Arenado and Paul Goldschmidt are performing well below expectations.
Goldschmidt is on pace to hit .271 with 22 homers, 81 RBIs and 205 strikeouts.
Arenado sits at .248 and his season rates out to 16 homers and 86 RBIs.
I usually wait until 40 games or Memorial Day before making any moves.
It's May 13 and we've played 30 games, should I be scouting for new hitting coach?

MathBandit · 01-16-2023, 09:11 PM

Usually 2-3 seasons at least. Though if I'm honest I can't actually remember the last time I've ever fired a staff member, with the exception of Head Scout and Head Trainer when I first start a sim (or take over a team). Other than that, I just check them as I get a notification that their contract is up to decide if I want to extend or just let them go and hire a replacement in the off-season.

liberty-ca · 01-16-2023, 10:47 PM

I was under impression that hitting coach factors in players development only. Was I wrong all this time?

Sweed · 01-17-2023, 10:08 AM

For me? He's there for the season. There are a lot of ups and downs over the course of a 162 game season. Even if things were so bad I was tempted to make a move 30 games certainly wouldn't be the line in the sand.

What if you had started off hot or even normally over the first hundred games and then went into this 30 game slow period? Let's say you were 58-42, would you even notice? You'd now be 72-58 .533.

To be fair I'm not sure what the number of games would be without being there to manage and sit through every game. If frustration was high at 100-120 games, maybe?

liberty-ca · 01-17-2023, 12:55 PM

So, just to make it sure that I understand correctly how the game works in regard to hitting coach's influence on players:

Hitting coach has impact on how well or poorly players perform at the bat? I mean - fully developed players? His role and attributes are there not only to impact development, but also influence how good/bad established guy performs at bat?

I can not believe this can be the case in the game. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

BIG17EASY · 01-17-2023, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liberty-ca

So, just to make it sure that I understand correctly how the game works in regard to hitting coach's influence on players:

Hitting coach has impact on how well or poorly players perform at the bat? I mean - fully developed players? His role and attributes are there not only to impact development, but also influence how good/bad established guy performs at bat?

I can not believe this can be the case in the game. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

You are mistaken. Hitting coaches (and pitching coaches) have influence on how players perform on a daily basis. It's not a massive influence, but if you see multiple players underperforming and can't pinpoint why, the hitting (or pitching) coach could be a factor in that underperformance.

liberty-ca · 01-17-2023, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

You are mistaken. Hitting coaches (and pitching coaches) have influence on how players perform on a daily basis. It's not a massive influence, but if you see multiple players underperforming and can't pinpoint why, the hitting (or pitching) coach could be a factor in that underperformance.

Thank you! Have been playing since 2018 and never noticed.

Khlod · 01-17-2023, 01:49 PM

The thing I like best with the coachs, is to fire the hell out of them when things goes bad.

Satisfactory feeling, even though not impactfull!

BIG17EASY · 01-17-2023, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khlod

The thing I like best with the coachs, is to fire the hell out of them when things goes bad.

Satisfactory feeling, even though not impactfull!

Ah, I believe that's known as The Steinbrenner Gambit.

Pelican · 01-17-2023, 02:33 PM

I agree with the advice to bide your time and let the season play out. I gather you are probably a Cardinals fan, so please don't be offended by what I say next. St. Louis in 2023 is not a dominant team, and that team with key players hurt is probably not a playoff team; although they play in the weakest Division in MLB. The team record in a very small sample is about what I'd expect, with key guys out. As to the hitting, just as guys pick each other up in good times, gaping holes in the lineup can put added pressure on role players, who then try to do too much. I think that's probably happening with your group. I wouldn't put that on the hitting coach.

rink23 · 01-17-2023, 04:43 PM

When running/managing a team, I try to break the season down to quarter-posts.
The first is 40 games/Memorial Day, that is when I really take a close look at my roster and see if any changes are needed.
I don't like doing anything major at this time. But if someone is severely underperforming -- particularly a bench player, reliever or bottom of rotation pitcher -- I might look to make a move.
With this team, the Cardinals are probably the sixth best team in the National League. Very much a fringe contender, but fortunately they should be able to win their division.
When it comes to the hitting coach, I can understand the struggles of many of the players.
What concerns me the most is the performance of my two best players Paul Goldschmidt and Nolan Arenado.
While Goldschmidt is on pace for 5.0 WAR, he also is on pace for a career-high 194 strikeouts.
Arenado is on pace for 3.9 WAR but also seems likely for a career-high strikeout total.
The power numbers for both are significantly down as well.
If those two don't have near the MVP like seasons they had in 2022, this team has no chance and if switching hitting coaches could be the difference. I might pull the trigger.

eauhomme · 02-23-2023, 02:11 PM

I recently fired John Farrell as a pitching coach mid-season. He was "Legendary" at teaching pitching, but was primarily a manager. My bullpen was melting down on a regular basis. Young team, but not so much that this should happen.

The team gelled with another coach, and the next year my bullpen led the league in ERA.

One thing I have noticed... Look at the "Relationships" tab and see who has a good or bad relationship with the coach. Players with a good relationship will benefit more. My current pitching coach has almost all the pitchers in the "Excellent" columns, whereas the hitters, who aren't affected, are all on the other side. With Farrell, there were pitchers on both sides.

mytreds · 02-23-2023, 02:48 PM

I blame my players for not performing, not the coaches. I see the coaches as mostly window dressing in this simulator.

uknownick · 02-23-2023, 04:05 PM

what is their (hitters) relationships with the hitting coach?

Brad K · 02-23-2023, 10:47 PM

My opinion is that with historical players, recalc on and development and TCR off the effect of coaches is zero. If it isn't it's a mistake and needs to be fixed.

I run recalc with dev and TCR on which I expect has minimal effect. I use full coaching to give me something to spend money on.

01-16-2023, 07:41 PM	#1
rink23 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 20,729	How long do you stick with new hitting coach? I am playing the 2023 season of the St. Louis Cardinals. Started on the day after the 2022 World Series, so all player personnel moves were my own and not based on how the offseason has played off so far. Team is off to a 14-16 start, tied for third in the NL Central, five games behind the Brewers. Injuries have been an issue -- Lars Nootbaar, Tyler O'Neil and Dylan Carlson are all currently on the injured list (O'Neil is likely done for the season -- but the biggest issue has been offense. I rank last or close to last in every major category. Like the real Cardinals, I let hitting coach Jeff Albert go after the season (thank goodness). I hired someone named Joey DeMonte, who while only having average reputation has high ratings across the board. It has hardly translated into on-field performance, as even Nolan Arenado and Paul Goldschmidt are performing well below expectations. Goldschmidt is on pace to hit .271 with 22 homers, 81 RBIs and 205 strikeouts. Arenado sits at .248 and his season rates out to 16 homers and 86 RBIs. I usually wait until 40 games or Memorial Day before making any moves. It's May 13 and we've played 30 games, should I be scouting for new hitting coach? Attached Images

01-17-2023, 02:33 PM	#10
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 2,886	I agree with the advice to bide your time and let the season play out. I gather you are probably a Cardinals fan, so please don't be offended by what I say next. St. Louis in 2023 is not a dominant team, and that team with key players hurt is probably not a playoff team; although they play in the weakest Division in MLB. The team record in a very small sample is about what I'd expect, with key guys out. As to the hitting, just as guys pick each other up in good times, gaping holes in the lineup can put added pressure on role players, who then try to do too much. I think that's probably happening with your group. I wouldn't put that on the hitting coach. __________________ Pelican OOTP 2020-? ”Hard to believe, Harry.”

01-17-2023, 04:43 PM	#11
rink23 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 20,729	When running/managing a team, I try to break the season down to quarter-posts. The first is 40 games/Memorial Day, that is when I really take a close look at my roster and see if any changes are needed. I don't like doing anything major at this time. But if someone is severely underperforming -- particularly a bench player, reliever or bottom of rotation pitcher -- I might look to make a move. With this team, the Cardinals are probably the sixth best team in the National League. Very much a fringe contender, but fortunately they should be able to win their division. When it comes to the hitting coach, I can understand the struggles of many of the players. What concerns me the most is the performance of my two best players Paul Goldschmidt and Nolan Arenado. While Goldschmidt is on pace for 5.0 WAR, he also is on pace for a career-high 194 strikeouts. Arenado is on pace for 3.9 WAR but also seems likely for a career-high strikeout total. The power numbers for both are significantly down as well. If those two don't have near the MVP like seasons they had in 2022, this team has no chance and if switching hitting coaches could be the difference. I might pull the trigger. Attached Images

02-23-2023, 02:11 PM	#12
eauhomme Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 120	I recently fired John Farrell as a pitching coach mid-season. He was "Legendary" at teaching pitching, but was primarily a manager. My bullpen was melting down on a regular basis. Young team, but not so much that this should happen. The team gelled with another coach, and the next year my bullpen led the league in ERA. One thing I have noticed... Look at the "Relationships" tab and see who has a good or bad relationship with the coach. Players with a good relationship will benefit more. My current pitching coach has almost all the pitchers in the "Excellent" columns, whereas the hitters, who aren't affected, are all on the other side. With Farrell, there were pitchers on both sides. Attached Images

02-23-2023, 02:48 PM	#13
mytreds All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 1,116	I blame my players for not performing, not the coaches. I see the coaches as mostly window dressing in this simulator. __________________ “Baseball isn’t statistics; it’s Joe DiMaggio rounding second.” “Once, centuries ago, it was the beloved national pastime of the Americas, Wesley. Abandoned by a society that prized fast food and faster games. Lost to impatience.” “ The term ‘WAR’ should be replaced by ‘WAG’. WAR isn’t an actual measurement; it’s just a wild-ass guess” -Bill James RIP National League 1876-2022 Floreat semper vel invita morte. I make custom ballparks.

01-16-2023, 09:11 PM	#2
MathBandit All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 1,445	Usually 2-3 seasons at least. Though if I'm honest I can't actually remember the last time I've ever fired a staff member, with the exception of Head Scout and Head Trainer when I first start a sim (or take over a team). Other than that, I just check them as I get a notification that their contract is up to decide if I want to extend or just let them go and hire a replacement in the off-season.

01-16-2023, 10:47 PM	#3
liberty-ca Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: New Westminster, BC Posts: 110	I was under impression that hitting coach factors in players development only. Was I wrong all this time?

01-17-2023, 10:08 AM	#4
Sweed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 6,608	For me? He's there for the season. There are a lot of ups and downs over the course of a 162 game season. Even if things were so bad I was tempted to make a move 30 games certainly wouldn't be the line in the sand. What if you had started off hot or even normally over the first hundred games and then went into this 30 game slow period? Let's say you were 58-42, would you even notice? You'd now be 72-58 .533. To be fair I'm not sure what the number of games would be without being there to manage and sit through every game. If frustration was high at 100-120 games, maybe?

01-17-2023, 12:55 PM	#5
liberty-ca Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: New Westminster, BC Posts: 110	So, just to make it sure that I understand correctly how the game works in regard to hitting coach's influence on players: Hitting coach has impact on how well or poorly players perform at the bat? I mean - fully developed players? His role and attributes are there not only to impact development, but also influence how good/bad established guy performs at bat? I can not believe this can be the case in the game. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

01-17-2023, 01:49 PM	#8
Khlod Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 46	The thing I like best with the coachs, is to fire the hell out of them when things goes bad. Satisfactory feeling, even though not impactfull!

02-23-2023, 04:05 PM	#14
uknownick Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2023 Posts: 107	what is their (hitters) relationships with the hitting coach?

02-23-2023, 10:47 PM	#15
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,658 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	My opinion is that with historical players, recalc on and development and TCR off the effect of coaches is zero. If it isn't it's a mistake and needs to be fixed. I run recalc with dev and TCR on which I expect has minimal effect. I use full coaching to give me something to spend money on. __________________ . Pirates Play Moneyball 1951-2008 Ratings and League Totals Modifiers A new pre-calc file! (Applause!) Settings and Auto-calc Popular Opinions and Undisputable Facts The cover up is usually more damaging than the original act.